Coronavirus: Threat Beyond Politics [For Political Discussions of CoV]

[Zacha341]

^^^ Yes, on surface items particularly, I have read that. I leave my mask in the car on the dash board to disinfect for a few days as I go out.

Love the sun rays in general. Hoping for some sun warmth to at least sit out on porch and catch some healing rays as well as missed vitamin D.

[Dumpling]

Hope everyone is enjoying their hiking and golfing and gardening the great outdoors is a good area for relaxing lockdown restrictions and enjoying the sunshine!

[Dan Wesson]

It would be so nice if one could just be irradiated to rid ourselves of the Chinese Corona Pandemic Phenomenon.

[Zacha341]

I don't golf or hike, but the gardening option [[purchase of materials therein) is grand as more than a few Detroit residents may start home gardens this summer. I would strongly advise it.

Hope everyone is enjoying their hiking and golfing and gardening...

[Dumpling]

I keep checking back on the Diamond Princess case study/nightmare.

Back on February 4, 2020, Japanese authorities placed the cruise ship under quarantine. The idea was to have a fourteen day quarantine so that the ten or so known positive cases could get better and not bring the illness ashore.

The nightmare part was, the ten or so cases didn't stay that way. More and more kept getting sick as the quarantine days stretched on.

The information is taken from Wikipedia [[same as if I were a school student doing a report):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_c...amond_Princess

The statistics are: 3,700 passengers and crew; 696 positive cases of which 410 were asymptomatic; and now the death toll is at 14 deaths.

That last number crept up slowly. As of March 4th there were 7 fatalities.
As of April 4th there were 12 fatalities. Currently it is 14 deaths.

14/696 = 0.020 which is a 2% case fatality rate [[CFR).

One can argue that this CFR should not be extrapolated to the United States because the passengers' mean age was about 70 and because we understand how to treat the disease better now.

On the other hand one could argue that the Diamond Princess crew and passengers were in relative good health as compared to the United States populace and that those in the United States often have difficulty accessing the right care, so we should use a 2% CFR provisionally until more information is available.

The Stanford seroprevalence study is a helpful addition towards more information but is not in and of itself a basis to declare a CFR in the United States of 0.2% overall.

[Dumpling]

The word "decimate" has its roots in the idea of killing one out of every ten of a group of soldiers as an example.

The term "decimate" comes to mind when looking at the numbers taken from the Detroit Health Department COVID-19 dashboard, currently at 8,471 cases with 816 deaths officially, for a computed CFR of 9.6%, or close enough to 1 out of every 10 infected Detroiters. There's another 661,529 Detroiters left to be infected and of those, 66,000 may be expected to die from COVID-19.

We are being decimated.

But maybe not so fast! Maybe the cases are massively undercounted. If it is true that there is a true CFR of 0.2% in Detroit, what is the number of persons that should test positive in Detroit either for the SARS-CoV-2 virus or antibodies to it?

We start from the official death count, 816, which is either mostly accurate or an underestimate; no one is arguing that it is an overestimate. 816/0.002 will be the number of actual cases that would give a death count of 816 if the CFR is 0.2%. That is 408,000 persons.
The estimated population in Detroit is 670,000, which means that 60% of everyone in the City of Detroit has the virus right now. Since all of us have gotten mildly infected in such a short amount of time, it is a foregone conclusion almost that the rest of the populace will be infected very shortly. That's another 261,300 persons, and with a CFR of 0.2%, there will be another 523 deaths from COVID-19 in all in Detroit. And then we are all done! Detroit has herd immunity by May 15th - we can totally open everything up again - and just 1,339 deaths from COVID-19.

[Richard]

In my un-expert opinion

Everybody has it or will get some form of it,for a percentage of the population it will be fatal,also cannot change that,nobody can stop that,the only reason for a lock down was to draw it out as to not overwhelm and crash the healthcare system.

If it continues to get drawn out and delaying the inevitable,that in itself will crash the healthcare system.

Along with the economy.

[GMan]

Here's a link to proposed use of UVA light in an Endotracheal tube to administer treatment for infection. Apparently U-Tube removed it as violating terms of use. Don't want anybody sticking a light bulb down their throat.

https://aytubio.com/healight/#press

[Richard]

I use one with a dye to detect refrigeration leaks on commercial equipment,never once have I thought about sticking it up my nether regions.

Of course there was that whole gerbil thing going on so who knows.

Good to see YouTube is looking out for my best interests in case I would be tempted to try after viewing.

They can zap you with an xray machine while in the airport,why not a UVA.

[Jimaz]

How COVID-19 Deniers Are ALSO A Virus

[Honky Tonk]

Don't want anybody sticking a light bulb down their throat.

Or any other orifice for that matter.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Wow,.. you don't actually believe any of that do you?


Overblown military budget? You realize it's small compared to SOS and Medicare / Medicaid right?

HHS spends 1.3 Trillion
Soc Sec = 1.2 Trillion
Military = 0.66 Trillion

On a total revenue of 3.4 trillion.


Of course most of the money was stolen out of the Soc Sec system under Johnson [[D). Under Carter [[D) they started giving immigrants who never paid in benefits, and under Clinton / Gore [[D) they made Soc Sec annuities taxable,




Yes, wages haven't grown v.s inflation in 40 some years,.. they even lost pace in the last decade,.. UNTIL the current president, who had wages growing at 3%, v.s. inflation of 2%. So under Pres Trump,.. we finally made up a tiny bit of ground. Long way to go.

And mega wealthy pay LOTS of taxes, in fact most of them. But you know who doesn't pay Fed income tax? The bottom 46% of the country. MOST Detroiters don't pay. Their refund is as much or more than they pay in.

So blaming the top earners that pay almost all of the Fed income taxes doesn't solve anything.

You sound just like that sorry excuse of a president, that resides in the WH. I guess you'll be drinking Clorox next. First thing you are incorrect about, is the Dems stealing from SS. Ole Pruneface Reagan started borrowing money from SS, and never replenished it. The wealthy don't pay sh_t in taxes. Where did you get that from? Jeff Bezos doesn't pay taxes, neither does Amazon. Keep putting your faith in the Orange Creamsicle. He's been the worst president in history. He really has you and your ilk, brainwashed to the 3rd power.

[Bigdd]

You sound just like that sorry excuse of a president, that resides in the WH. I guess you'll be drinking Clorox next. First thing you are incorrect about, is the Dems stealing from SS. Ole Pruneface Reagan started borrowing money from SS, and never replenished it. The wealthy don't pay sh_t in taxes. Where did you get that from? Jeff Bezos doesn't pay taxes, neither does Amazon. Keep putting your faith in the Orange Creamsicle. He's been the worst president in history. He really has you and your ilk, brainwashed to the 3rd power.

Being filled with hate has apparently kept you from being able to look up facts on Google.

The top 1% pay 40% of all federal income taxes,.. and the bottom 46% don't pay any. Easy facts to look up. The stimulus check you got? The Interstates you drive on for free? The protection from enemies the military provides? Consider that your welfare check.

Pres Trump never said Clorox or Lysol, that's what Democrat media said. Not sure what he was referring to. Probably misinterpreting something someone said in a meeting. The light has been used for many decades in alternative medicine,.. though typically the blood is circulated outside of the body, then subjected to UV light to kill viruses, and put right back in with a pump. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/


It's true that most corporations work to avoid paying Fed Income tax. If they fail,.. the money they earn gets DOUBLE taxed. [[Pay when the corp makes profit,.. then the stockholders pay a second time when they receive the dividends). To avoid this crushing event,.. corporation cannot keep revenues past their fiscal year. Whereas they might like to keep some of their profits sitting in a bank,.. to be used to financing a new plant,.. instead they must spend it before year end,.. or send it out as dividends to avoid being double taxed. Then later, they need to borrow money at interest to build that big plant.

This keeps US businesses a bit weak fiscally, and at a disadvantage to some of their foreign competitors. It would be great if they could stash money away in a special account to fund big projects,.. but our tax code doesn't really allow that.

BUT,.. the stockholders DO pay taxes on those very dollars you speak of, once they receive them as dividends. So you are technically correct in that many large companies don't pay fed income tax,.. but it is incorrect to say that fed tax doesn't get paid on that money.

[Maof]

Pres Trump never said Clorox or Lysol, that's what Democrat media said. Not sure what he was referring to. Probably misinterpreting something someone said in a meeting. The light has been used for many decades in alternative medicine,.. though typically the blood is circulated outside of the body, then subjected to UV light to kill viruses, and put right back in with a pump. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/

Actually he said "injection inside" of disinfectant. What part of that did you not hear......https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...navirus-trump/.

And no, it wasn't a "sarcastic" remark as he stated the following day. As far as Birx, she should have immediately said something. The surgeon general had to issue a statement ...."As a global leader in health and hygiene products, we must be clear that under no circumstance should our disinfectant products be administered into the human body [[through injection, ingestion or any other route),"


I'm also curious as to why he didn't take questions at the briefing the following day. Have you noticed Fauci hasn't been at the last several briefings? I wonder why that is. Maybe, because he actually knows what he's talking about?

[DeLemur]

Are you really making rational excuses for Trump's advice to inject disinfectants in the body or bring light into the body to kill coronavirus?

Happy to see the top 1% pays 40% of all taxes. Hasn't much affected them though, as they have reaped the vast sums of this economy and the last four decades in the country. The bottom 46% that pay no taxes? Their wealth has declined for four decades and they barely got a bump out of this 'good economy.'

Taxes mean nothing, when wealth is clearly going only one way - to the top. Alas, those with the wealth should pay more.

Being filled with hate has apparently kept you from being able to look up facts on Google.

The top 1% pay 40% of all federal income taxes,.. and the bottom 46% don't pay any. Easy facts to look up. The stimulus check you got? The Interstates you drive on for free? The protection from enemies the military provides? Consider that your welfare check.

Pres Trump never said Clorox or Lysol, that's what Democrat media said. Not sure what he was referring to. Probably misinterpreting something someone said in a meeting. The light has been used for many decades in alternative medicine,.. though typically the blood is circulated outside of the body, then subjected to UV light to kill viruses, and put right back in with a pump. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4783265/


It's true that most corporations work to avoid paying Fed Income tax. If they fail,.. the money they earn gets DOUBLE taxed. [[Pay when the corp makes profit,.. then the stockholders pay a second time when they receive the dividends). To avoid this crushing event,.. corporation cannot keep revenues past their fiscal year. Whereas they might like to keep some of their profits sitting in a bank,.. to be used to financing a new plant,.. instead they must spend it before year end,.. or send it out as dividends to avoid being double taxed. Then later, they need to borrow money at interest to build that big plant.

This keeps US businesses a bit weak fiscally, and at a disadvantage to some of their foreign competitors. It would be great if they could stash money away in a special account to fund big projects,.. but our tax code doesn't really allow that.

BUT,.. the stockholders DO pay taxes on those very dollars you speak of, once they receive them as dividends. So you are technically correct in that many large companies don't pay fed income tax,.. but it is incorrect to say that fed tax doesn't get paid on that money.

[aj3647]

Trump wasn't so far off when he was brainstorming about somehow bringing in light through the skin. It is happens. Some light is outside our field of vision but it does change our skin, cause our bodies to make vitamin D, change our moods, or make us sick or well. Gman's post 717 even mentioned the possibility of literally bringing ultraviolet light directly into lungs. Scoff and stomp your little feat all you want because Trump dared to brainstorm and consider things outside the box but be content that Hidin' Joe Biden is around the corner unable to think of anything outside the box that his handlers don't put on his teleprompter. He can still read. That's good.

Trump said he was being "sarcastic", you said he's "brainstorming." So WHICH is it? Can't be both. He can't both be serious and sarcastic at the same fucking time. Pick one. Should I believe your spin or Donald Trump's own explanation for his own words?

If you want to stick with your spin that he was being serious, then you are calling him a liar when he claimed he was being sarcastic. Is that what you are doing, Oladub? Are you calling Trump a liar? Sure seems like it.

Shall I report you to the Red Hats for being disloyal to Dear Leader?

[Canadian Visitor]

aj, Neither you nor Uncle Joe are brainstormers; more like establishment hacks. While Trump was restricting travel from China, Uncle Joe was calling Trump a xenophobe for doing so and you were probably still promoting the latest coup attempt. I can imagine that in another time, you would have labeled Galileo a heretic.

Going back to rb's Washington Post Trump quote, “So supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether it’s ultraviolet or just very powerful light and I think you said that hasn't been checked but you’re going to test it. And then I said supposing you brought the light inside the body, which you can do either through the skin or in some other way,” Trump said, adding it “sounds interesting.”

We do know that ultraviolet light causes tans and skin cancer. We also know that ultraviolet light causes bodies to produce vitamin D which boosts immunity. Our eyes take in light and transform light into images in our brains and increases our serotonin levels. Related solar radiation also causes other internal cancers. "Researchers found that women and men on U.S. cabin crews have higher rates of many types of cancer, compared with the general population. This includes cancers of the breast, cervix, skin, thyroid and uterus, as well as gastrointestinal system cancers, which include colon, stomach, esophageal, liver and pancreatic cancers". Radio waves, microwaves, infrared, visible, ultraviolet, x-rays nd gamma radiation are all forms of light.

Trump wasn't so far off when he was brainstorming about somehow bringing in light through the skin. It is happens. Some light is outside our field of vision but it does change our skin, cause our bodies to make vitamin D, change our moods, or make us sick or well. Gman's post 717 even mentioned the possibility of literally bringing ultraviolet light directly into lungs. Scoff and stomp your little feat all you want because Trump dared to brainstorm and consider things outside the box but be content that Hidin' Joe Biden is around the corner unable to think of anything outside the box that his handlers don't put on his teleprompter. He can still read. That's good.

Were there any doubt that you would defend Trump irrespective of the merits; you've removed it.

Were there any doubt that if you were capable of cogent thought you've lost it; you've removed it.

For the record, UV light can indeed disinfect, its already widely used for that purpose.

However.......

a) The toxicity of UV light when applied at disinfection strength is very dangerous to humans.

b) Covid is not a tumour, you can't simply focus the light at the bad part; that's not how a virus works.

c) There is not way to distribute UV light, at the cellular level, in an un-focused way, safely.

Period. Full-stop.

How ridiculous!

People who don't understand science should not speak about it, except to ask questions of those of us who do.

[aj3647]

Period. Full-stop.

How ridiculous!

People who don't understand science should not speak about it, except to ask questions of those of us who do.

You're wasting your breath on this troglodyte. Oladub is the living breathing embodiment of the Dunning Kruger Effect.

It goes without saying, that the short wavelength UV light that disinfects water and non-biological materials by damaging the nucleic acids inside viruses, bacteria, and other microorganisms, if distributed across the entire human body, would magically avoid all the healthy tissue and not damage the DNA inside our own healthy cells and only magically hit the virus.

[Richard]

Well now is the opportunity for you two experts to shine in front of the world.

Who would have guessed the worlds experts reside right here.

[aj3647]

Well now is the opportunity for you two experts to shine in front of the world.

Step up and show the world your expertise.

Literally a press release from the Industry Association that represents the companies that make UV disinfection equipment.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...301047108.html

Recent reports suggest that ultraviolet [[UV) light can be used on the human body to disinfect against the coronavirus. The International Ultraviolet Association [[IUVA) and RadTech North America are educational and advocacy organizations consisting of UV equipment vendors, scientists, engineers, consultants, and members of the medical profession. We would like to inform the public that there are no protocols to advise or to permit the safe use of UV light directly on the human body at the wavelengths and exposures proven to efficiently kill viruses such as SARS-CoV-2. UV light under the conditions known to kill such viruses are also known to cause severe skin burns, skin cancer, and eye damage. We strongly recommend that anyone using UV light to disinfect medical equipment, surfaces, or air in the context of COVID-19, applications that are supported by sound scientific evidence, follow all recommended health and safety precautions and to avoid direct exposure of the body to the UV light.

Please read the bolded part and please tell me that me that on some subconscious level you realize that if you did this you would seriously harm yourself.

[Richard]

^ do not know and do not care,my life has not changed one bit in the midst of it all.

Its a virus that even the experts cannot agree with any part of it and I see no point in trying to be the expert I am not or even pretending I am.

The worlds history was built on those who did not know, until they did.

Millions take medication,radiation treatments,smoke,vape,drink sugary soda,inject heroin,smoke crack,have unprotected sex,eat bats,snort asbestos,breath polluted air and a million other things.

When did we actually start worrying about doing serious harm to our bodies?

If I was hours from dyeing and wanted to live and they said we can save you by cramming a shark up your rear or zap you with a UV light,what am I going to say,no it might harm my body?

[aj3647]

^ do not know and do not care,my life has not changed one bit in the midst of it all.

Its a virus that even the experts cannot agree with any part of it and I see no point in trying to be the expert I am not or even pretending I am.

The worlds history was built on those who did not know, until they did.

You know what then, Richard? Buy a disinfection-strength UV lamp and shine it all over your body. Ignore all the warning in the user manuals that say NOT to do it. Do it anyways. It would really trigger me if you did that and then posted some pictures of your body afterwards to show me up on how safe it is. I encourage you to do this. Do it. I dare you to.

[Richard]

^ no you appear to be the reason they need warning labels on everything.

I would be willing to bet your parents understood social distancing with you,long before it became popular.

You never seen in the movies where somebody in the future was sick they ran a beam across them and they were well again?

Nuclear,can be used to destroy a city,power a ship or power plant or even in small doses heal a body.

Somebody had to try it first.

Besides I have common sense,I was not one of those who were triggered when the president mentioned bleach and automatically assumed the intent was to drink it.

But really that is what sets people apart though,some are willing to push the boundaries while others prefer playing the safe route.

Bet cha somewhere in some dark corner of a laboratory there is somebody exploring the possibility of using UV light to heal,seems to work with the sun in the same concept,to much is bad,a little is good.

I had some friends,they were assembled as a team of some of the top experts in the world in cancer research.

One of them would take a cancer cell,while under a microscope,cut it with a laser into slices,they would then take those slices and inject different concoctions into the layers in order to come up with something that you could inject that would go into the blood stream,seek out and destroy the cancer cell.

He was one of 3 in the world that did that,and only two microscopes in the world with that capability.

Another one was a blood specialist also tops in the world,in his spare time he would fly around the world to poor countries where somebody had a rare blood disease and cure them on his dime.

His role as a blood specialist was to figure out how an injection would navigate the blood stream in order to attack the cancer cell but nothing else in the process.

So when the president refers to an injection that seeks out and attacks the virus,he was really not that far off.

[aj3647]

Just a reminder that it's been two months, 1+ million confirmed cases, and 60,000+ deaths since Trump proclaimed this:

“The 15 [[cases in the US) within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero.”
-Donald Trump, February 26


“One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

[oladub]

Trump said he was being "sarcastic", you said he's "brainstorming." So WHICH is it? Can't be both. He can't both be serious and sarcastic at the same fucking time. Pick one. Should I believe your spin or Donald Trump's own explanation for his own words?

If you want to stick with your spin that he was being serious, then you are calling him a liar when he claimed he was being sarcastic. Is that what you are doing, Oladub? Are you calling Trump a liar? Sure seems like it.

Shall I report you to the Red Hats for being disloyal to Dear Leader?

Possibly both. I can't read minds like you. You can believe whatever you like. You believed in all the Russiagate coup nonsense. Why not believe there can be only two possibilities and it has to be one or the other? Whether he was being sarcastic or not or whether his comments reflected things discussed at briefings, I don't know but I would rather have someone who speculates about possibilities than the dolt who didn't want to restrict passengers from China. Oh wait, Biden had a change of mind about that. Now he supports the restrictions for scientific reasons. It follows that if you sided with Biden when he opposed Trump's travel restrictions, then, using your reasoning, Biden is lying. Aj? Are you calling Biden a liar? Sure seems like it.