Little Caesars Arena

[313WX]

BTW, I have to bitch a little about this.

I understand the "athlete" hotel will have 385 rooms, yet will only be a measly 5 stories. That would be a travesty given they could easily go vertical.

Meanwhile, this is what other cities are getting:

Drury Plaza - 21 Stories and 390 rooms [[Nashville)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/up-bucket-0...54004ca6a9.jpg

Cambria Suites - 19 stories and 255 rooms [[Nashville)

http://www.hollyandsmith.com/portfol...m=proportional

The Joseph - 21 stories and 297 rooms [[Nashville)

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e58...-Rendering.jpg

Hampton Inn & Suites - 18 stories and 150 rooms [[Atlanta)

http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/ima...nn---slide.jpg

Westin - 19 stories and 300 rooms [[Austin)

https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...cfV2dYg/ls.jpg

Hotel Mirabu - 31 stories and 250 rooms [[Austin)

http://www.mystatesman.com/rf/image_...2_mirabeau.jpg

[313WX]

Three other interesting points to make, for those not as familiar with the hotel business.

1- Typically Marriott/Ritz doesn't purchase property, as almost all of their hotels are franchises. Basically in almost all new cases, a private developer builds a hotel, and private management company runs the hotel, and they pay Marriott/Ritz for use of the franchise.

2- I can't remember when [[if ever) Illitch/Olympia sold downtown land to anyone.

3- Lets say this is going the franchise route described above, for discussion. The first thing to note is that Marriott/Ritz is the name of the parent company that franchises out like 30 different brands of hotels. Thus there is no guarantee it would even be a Marriott or Ritz hotel, as it could be one of their other 28 brands.

Those are all fair points. I assume the individual was referring to a franchise.

As far as the Illitches never selling any land, to be fair, has anyone legitimate ever approached them with a reasonable asking price? Until now, their land was virtually worthless to developers. Let,s be real, the Illitches don't actively use all of that land for parking these days, nor are they going to redevelop every single parcel.

Lastly, as far as which Marriott brand this hotel could be, bear in mind that Detroit is already well served by 3 star hotels already. There are no JW Marriott, Renaissance hotels, Ritz Cartons, etc. anywhere in Metro Detroit.

This is all conjecture of course until additional confirmation and details are given by the poster. I could be way off base.

[southen]

Is that still a go? I just assumed that this Marriott/Ritz thing would replace the planned hotel in front of the arena.

If they still plan to build that hotel I think the answer is simple, they don't want anything to overshadow or block the view of their arena. It would be nice if they went up a bit higher to utilize their position near the freeway and the unobstructed views of downtown. At five stories you are just going to stare into the Fox and the parking garage across 75.

[Atticus]

BTW, I have to bitch a little about this.

I understand the "athlete" hotel will have 385 rooms, yet will only be a measly 5 stories. That would be a travesty given they could easily go vertical.

Meanwhile, this is what other cities are getting:

Drury Plaza - 21 Stories and 390 rooms [[Nashville)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/up-bucket-0...54004ca6a9.jpg

Cambria Suites - 19 stories and 255 rooms [[Nashville)

http://www.hollyandsmith.com/portfol...m=proportional

The Joseph - 21 stories and 297 rooms [[Nashville)

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e58...-Rendering.jpg

Hampton Inn & Suites - 18 stories and 150 rooms [[Atlanta)

http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/ima...nn---slide.jpg

Westin - 19 stories and 300 rooms [[Austin)

https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...cfV2dYg/ls.jpg

Hotel Mirabu - 31 stories and 250 rooms [[Austin)

http://www.mystatesman.com/rf/image_...2_mirabeau.jpg

For comparison, all three casino hotels have about 300 rooms [[less than the 385 mentioned above). And all those are well above 5 stories in height. Must be a large flat footprint with central courtyard facing rooms to get 385 rooms on only 5 floors.

[313WX]

For comparison, all three casino hotels have about 300 rooms [[less than the 385 mentioned above). And all those are well above 5 stories in height. Must be a large flat footprint with central courtyard facing rooms to get 385 rooms on only 5 floors.

Casino hotels are always extremely ambitious though. All of the examples I listed are stand alone hotels.

[313WX]

Is that still a go? I just assumed that this Marriott/Ritz thing would replace the planned hotel in front of the arena.

If they still plan to build that hotel I think the answer is simple, they don't want anything to overshadow or block the view of their arena. It would be nice if they went up a bit higher to utilize their position near the freeway and the unobstructed views of downtown. At five stories you are just going to stare into the Fox and the parking garage across 75.

If what the poster said was correct, the hotel would be perpendicular to the parcel on the NW corner of Woodward and Fisher [[in "Wildcat Corner"), thus a separate development.

[emu steve]

If what the poster said was correct, the hotel would be perpendicular to the parcel on the NW corner of Woodward and Fisher [[in "Wildcat Corner"), thus a separate development.

Now that the issue is raised:

Are we looking at TWO hotels a couple blocks away?

Is it possible that the one next to GVSU's building will be more upscale [[a tower) while the one next to LCA [[not a tower) more for tourists attending events at Comerica, LCA and Ford Field?

And when does downtown Detroit 'max out' on hotels?

Folks are great at saying: That building would make a nice hotel. That lot is ideal for a hotel. We need a residential/hotel development on this prime lot [[think fail-jail site).

Eventually the number of hotel rooms in downtown has increased 25%. Then another 25%. Eventually, when the economy turns down there is a real glut of empty rooms [[like what used to happen with airlines which over purchased planes years ago. Empty seats on planes and empty beds in hotels/motels are lost revenue.).

[southen]

Perhaps a Marriott/Ritz would be mixed use and part residential as well.

[emu steve]

Perhaps a Marriott/Ritz would be mixed use and part residential as well.

Don't know if it makes sense, but doing condo in a hotel tower next to the GVSU building might be attractive to those seeking location and ownership.

I realize condominium ownership can be a legal pain, but it would give folks the opportunity to buy real estate in a desirable location.

Folks talk all the time about the retirees who want to sell their single family homes and want to have something with low upkeep and closer to downtown, yet don't want to rent. Well, for those a 1200 sq. foot condo might be what they are looking.

[emu steve]

Pistons floor looks beautiful in LCA.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nb...ena/590539001/

[casscorridor]

BTW, I have to bitch a little about this.

I understand the "athlete" hotel will have 385 rooms, yet will only be a measly 5 stories. That would be a travesty given they could easily go vertical.

Meanwhile, this is what other cities are getting:

Drury Plaza - 21 Stories and 390 rooms [[Nashville)

https://s3.amazonaws.com/up-bucket-0...54004ca6a9.jpg

Cambria Suites - 19 stories and 255 rooms [[Nashville)

http://www.hollyandsmith.com/portfol...m=proportional

The Joseph - 21 stories and 297 rooms [[Nashville)

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e58...-Rendering.jpg

Hampton Inn & Suites - 18 stories and 150 rooms [[Atlanta)

http://www.midtownatl.com/_files/ima...nn---slide.jpg

Westin - 19 stories and 300 rooms [[Austin)

https://s3-media3.fl.yelpcdn.com/bph...cfV2dYg/ls.jpg

Hotel Mirabu - 31 stories and 250 rooms [[Austin)

http://www.mystatesman.com/rf/image_...2_mirabeau.jpg

Besides the views, why does this matter? It's still large building filling some of the abundant empty space surrounding the arena.

[313WX]

Besides the views, why does this matter? It's still large building filling some of the abundant empty space surrounding the arena.

It's just a pet peeve of mine. We deserve better, especially now with the economy humming along and downtown heating it.

Detroit punches so far below its weight compared to other cities when it comes to stuff like this.

[SammyS]

It's just a pet peeve of mine. We deserve better, especially now with the economy humming along and downtown heating it.

Detroit punches so far below its weight compared to other cities when it comes to stuff like this.

Gotta agree. Even the renderings of Monroe block lack ambition.

[MikeyinBrooklyn]

Hey, I'm excited about all this activity, however it precisely plays out. Short hotel, tall hotel? I'm thrilled by either.

Someone above asked when does downtown max out on hotel rooms? Well, there is a saturation point, of course. But I think we are far from it, for a number of reasons.
1) People staying in SE Michigan, for the first time in ages, would rather stay in Detroit than the burbs. More to do & see everyday, and central to suburbs or Canada in all directions.
2) There are now many quality hotels in different neighborhoods, at different price points, and to suit different tastes and needs.
3) Locals- including actual Detroiters- now regularly spend a night or two downtown seeing a game, going to a show, eating & drinking and spend the night [[or 2) at a hotel. That never used to happen. Quite common now.
4) Detroit's convention business is forecast to get busier each of the next five years. Cobo reno is a factor, but so is the plethora of [[relative to other cities) affordable nice hotels.
5) All the new offices, stores, residences, etc generate room rentals. Clients, new employees, consultants, vendors, salesmen, etc need a place to stay.
6) The number of high-end business, entertainment & sports clients is growing at a fast pace, and now the Townsend in Birmingham isn't the only game in town for them.

Also, re: another post above, all the casino hotels have 400 rooms, per original development licenses. I should note as well that I think each of the casinos will seek to add adjacent hotel space in the next few years, potentially casino-branded, but perhaps not.

[casscorridor]

It's just a pet peeve of mine. We deserve better, especially now with the economy humming along and downtown heating it.

Detroit punches so far below its weight compared to other cities when it comes to stuff like this.

Why does height matter though? There is such an obsession over tall buildings. A shorter building can be more significant than a taller one with the right architect. Of course, the whole new stadium district is a snooze fest and we shouldn't expect anything besides uninspired cookie-cutter monotony. So it's sort of a non-issue anyway. Unless you love uninspired architecture, which based on most of the examples you gave, you might.

[313WX]

Why does height matter though?

Because myself and others would like Detroit to enter the 21st century.

As someone who travels quite a bit, it gets quite annoying visiting other cities just within the US [[many of which are significantoy smaller than others) and see their downtowns filled with modern skyscrapers as well as construction cranes for new skyscrapers while we always come back here into a 1970s time warp where nothing seems to change.

Even Dan Gilbert has expressed frustration over it, thus his bold move to build several of them himself.

[Atticus]

Because myself and others would like Detroit to enter the 21st century.

As someone who travels quite a bit, it gets quite annoying visiting other cities just within the US [[many of which are significantoy smaller than others) and see their downtowns filled with modern skyscrapers as well as construction cranes for new skyscrapers while we always come back here into a 1970s time warp where nothing seems to change.

Even Dan Gilbert has expressed frustration over it, thus his bold move to build several of them himself.

The lack of building height diversity around the arena also takes away from the visual appeal of the neighborhood. I am okay with the height of the structures built so far, but the area really needs a few midrise towers, even if just in the 20 story range, to mix things up a bit.

[401don]

Air Canada Centre, the Leafs & Raptors Arena, has re-sold naming rights to Scotiabank for a whopping 800 million over 20 yrs. You could almost finance building a new arena for that amount. I wonder if Gores is thinking he should have charged Ilitch a little more?

https://www.thestar.com/sports/2017/...ank-arena.html

[emu steve]

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...ena/613420001/

[Zads07]

Oh look, more demolition from the demolition company of Detroit - Olympia Demolition. Goodbye 120-year old home. Thanks Ilitch, we hate historic buildings and homes that make a neighborhood feel more diverse.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/08/29/house-near-little-caesars-arena-demolished/105081786/

"The house on Cass being demolished was sold in 2009 for $210,000 to a limited liability company that later transferred the property to Olympia Development of Michigan. It sits next to a fire-damaged two-story house at 2712 Cass Ave. that is listed for $4.9 million."

[emu steve]

Oh look, more demolition from the demolition company of Detroit - Olympia Demolition. Goodbye 120-year old home. Thanks Ilitch, we hate historic buildings and homes that make a neighborhood feel more diverse.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/08/29/house-near-little-caesars-arena-demolished/105081786/

"The house on Cass being demolished was sold in 2009 for $210,000 to a limited liability company that later transferred the property to Olympia Development of Michigan. It sits next to a fire-damaged two-story house at 2712 Cass Ave. that is listed for $4.9 million."

Want to save a single-family house on the arena site?

How about this single-family house next to a big multi-family apartment building? [[apparently they couldn't agree on $ when the multi-family was built).

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40...!4d-77.0164028

It seems saving some buildings [[e.g., Hotel American, Alhambra, etc. etc.) makes a LOT of sense, but a single family house on the 'grounds' of the arena????? SMH

[Zads07]

Want to save a single-family house on the arena site?

How about this single-family house next to a big multi-family apartment building? [[apparently they couldn't agree on $ when the multi-family was built).

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40...!4d-77.0164028

It seems saving some buildings [[e.g., Hotel American, Alhambra, etc. etc.) makes a LOT of sense, but a single family house on the 'grounds' of the arena????? SMH

Yea, I do want to see buildings saved from the demolisher. That's all they've done Steve. Haven't you been paying attention to any of these threads?

[emu steve]

Yea, I do want to see buildings saved from the demolisher. That's all they've done Steve. Haven't you been paying attention to any of these threads?

There is an old expression about picking your battles.

If the Ilitches save the American Hotel, Alhambra, Eddystone, plus more, who really should care about that house on Cass, Hotel Temple, etc.

Some buildings are 'must saves' kind of like '9' or '10' on a 10 point scale.

Others are '1' or '2' on that same scale.

If you have followed my posts, the American Hotel is a '10' on the must save scale because it is adjacent to the Masonic. It is not a single, isolated building in the middle of an urban wasteland.

The house of Cass is a '1' or '2' or maybe a -1 as it is no different than tens of thousand Detroit houses, many of which are or will be demolished and quite frankly it stands out like a sore thumb.

[southen]

Hmmm if we are really being fair it is NOT the Ilitchs fixing up those buildings, they pawned them off on other entities/companies.

[Zads07]

Hmmm if we are really being fair it is NOT the Ilitchs fixing up those buildings, they pawned them off on other entities/companies.

This is absolutely true. Olympia is not redeveloping the properties they own, other companies are.