GM to Eliminate 1,300 [[2nd Shift) Jobs at Detroit-Hamtramck

[Lowell]

Couple of notes... Dham produces the Volt which is not a big seller. This coming year GM will be making a big push of the 200 Mile+ per charge Bolt, being built and ramped up at Orion right now. Wondering if that is a factor.

Price of gas. That could almost be another thread. It seems likely to rise, but how much? Trump being friendly with Putin could lean on him to keep Russian production low, but once oil gets north of $60 I would think all the new fracking wells get uncorked. There is just way too much oil in the world now due the to the new extraction methods. At the same time alternative energy source production costs, wind / solar particularly, are diving.

I'm really curious as to how the Bolt will accepted. If it is popular the impact could be huge.

[Bobl]

I hope that the unemployment administrators in state government are accommodating. This is a lot of layoffs. No comparable industries are doing mass hiring. That Amazon/Livonia situation isn't set to open until next October.

Snyder was not very "accomodating" when his automated MIDAS program rejected up to 93 percent of unemployment compensation claims, flagging many as fraudulent, then fining them. It is hoped that this has been straightened out.

[Cincinnati_Kid]

Snyder was not very "accomodating" when his automated MIDAS program rejected up to 93 percent of unemployment compensation claims, flagging many as fraudulent, then fining them. It is hoped that this has been straightened out.

No surprise, it's what the GOP does, cut perceived entitlements for people, most thru no fault of their own. They even look at SS, as being a entitlement, when it's your money, but I bet those same congressmen, senators, etc... are the first standing in line accepting theirs, when the time comes.

[GMan]

Couple of notes... Dham produces the Volt which is not a big seller. This coming year GM will be making a big push of the 200 Mile+ per charge Bolt, being built and ramped up at Orion right now. Wondering if that is a factor.

Price of gas. That could almost be another thread. It seems likely to rise, but how much? Trump being friendly with Putin could lean on him to keep Russian production low, but once oil gets north of $60 I would think all the new fracking wells get uncorked. There is just way too much oil in the world now due the to the new extraction methods. At the same time alternative energy source production costs, wind / solar particularly, are diving.

I'm really curious as to how the Bolt will accepted. If it is popular the impact could be huge.

I think the Bolt would be a hard sell even if gas went back up north of $4 a gal.
The Volt was high priced and highly subsidized in sales. I think that tax credit has now expired.
The infrastructure for electric vehicles is lacking outside of progressive cities.
The public is still not warmed up to a plug in vehicle, they want to turn the key and go.
Millennials aren't pushing for cars in general. My nephew didn't even get his drivers license till he turned 24yo. Hard to sell a car to someone who doesn't even desire to drive.
That said, the cars do have some incredible engineering in them.

[Honky Tonk]

I think the Bolt would be a hard sell even if gas went back up north of $4 a gal.
The Volt was high priced and highly subsidized in sales. I think that tax credit has now expired.
The infrastructure for electric vehicles is lacking outside of progressive cities.
The public is still not warmed up to a plug in vehicle, they want to turn the key and go.
Millennials aren't pushing for cars in general. My nephew didn't even get his drivers license till he turned 24yo. Hard to sell a car to someone who doesn't even desire to drive.
That said, the cars do have some incredible engineering in them.

Serious question. What does the Volt do for heat? Is it electric? That's got to be some battery drain in the cold weather.

[Wesley Mouch]

Couple of notes... Dham produces the Volt which is not a big seller. This coming year GM will be making a big push of the 200 Mile+ per charge Bolt, being built and ramped up at Orion right now. Wondering if that is a factor.
...snip...

GM could produce a car that runs 1,000 miles on a teaspoon of water -- and it'll never be a Prius. Prii and their plural spelling are darlings of wealthy environmentalists enjoying tax credits who will never drive a car from the company that killed the EV1 and embodies Detroit. Perhaps if they produced it in Caracas, and called it the Fidel II.

[Bham1982]

GM could produce a car that runs 1,000 miles on a teaspoon of water -- and it'll never be a Prius. Prii and their plural spelling are darlings of wealthy environmentalists enjoying tax credits who will never drive a car from the company that killed the EV1 and embodies Detroit. Perhaps if they produced it in Caracas, and called it the Fidel II.

Prius was the world's first mass-produced hybrid, and has global popularity. It rides quite nicely for what it is. Has nothing to do with being a "Commie", "wealthy environmentalist", "hating Detroit" or something.

The bizarre realities people fabricate to fit everything into a weird worldview...

[bust]

GM could produce a car that runs 1,000 miles on a teaspoon of water -- and it'll never be a Prius. Prii and their plural spelling are darlings of wealthy environmentalists enjoying tax credits who will never drive a car from the company that killed the EV1 and embodies Detroit. Perhaps if they produced it in Caracas, and called it the Fidel II.

What a strange thing to say.

The only people I know who bought Priuses are retirees in Florida on fixed incomes. They bought them when gas was expensive, to save money. One enjoyed when guys he'd meet at his coffee clutch [[that's how he says it) offered to buy it from him for a profit to circumvent the waitlist. He always said no, but recently sold it now that gas is cheap. Never did their purchasing preferences have anything to do with a political position or even environmentalism. The one whose vote for president I know voted for Trump. Most voters in his county did too.

[[Yes, I know: anecdotes fall far short of scientific evidence, but who needs facts these days?)

Not my area, but gas won't stay cheap forever. With all the likely instability headed our way I wouldn't count on it staying cheap for long.

I shared this on another thread, but in case you haven't seen it, here's a technology column that writes glowingly of the Bolt and compares GM's electric car strategy favorably to Tesla's:

How Did G.M. Create Tesla’s Dream Car First?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/te...car-first.html

If the Bolt proves reliable the price of gas increases and it will save them money some of those retirees will probably buy one next time.

Most people are not fixated on politics.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

Every single person I know in CA who drives a Prius does so largely for environmental reasons. Now that Michissippi has gone over to the dark side, I no longer feel the need to buy American either.

[313WX]

What a strange thing to say.

The only people I know who bought Priuses are retirees in Florida on fixed incomes. They bought them when gas was expensive, to save money. One enjoyed when guys he'd meet at his coffee clutch [[that's how he says it) offered to buy it from him for a profit to circumvent the waitlist. He always said no, but recently sold it now that gas is cheap. Never did their purchasing preferences have anything to do with a political position or even environmentalism. The one whose vote for president I know voted for Trump. Most voters in his county did too.

[[Yes, I know: anecdotes fall far short of scientific evidence, but who needs facts these days?)

Not my area, but gas won't stay cheap forever. With all the likely instability headed our way I wouldn't count on it staying cheap for long.

I shared this on another thread, but in case you haven't seen it, here's a technology column that writes glowingly of the Bolt and compares GM's electric car strategy favorably to Tesla's:

How Did G.M. Create Tesla’s Dream Car First?
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/te...car-first.html

If the Bolt proves reliable the price of gas increases and it will save them money some of those retirees will probably buy one next time.

Most people are not fixated on politics.

You give your fellow Americans too much credit.

In an extremely rare instance, what Wesley Mouch says has a smidgen of truth to it. There's a large segment of Americans that want nothing to do with the Big 3 Automakers and the cars they sell. They can walk on water and lay golden goose eggs for the rest of eternity and you won't be able to convince this segment otherwise. Just see the fact that GM's and Ford's stock price have virtually been stuck in neutral despite record profits and sales the past couple of years [[which defies all fundamentals) while a company like Tesla that's been losing money hand over fist has seen its stock price skyrocket to the moon during the same time.

Part of it is in fact politics. Many are still peeved about the bailout back in 2008/2009 because in their mind, seeing millions of peoples out of work and an industry that accounts for 7-8% of the country's GDP wiped out wasn't nearly as important as free market economic principles to them.

These feelings seem to permeate the most amongst those in the second half of the Baby Boomer cohort and younger. A lot of people in the aforementioned age group have very bad memories of driving the shit boxes Ford / GM / Chrysler were peddling back in the 70s through 90s. And then as far as millennials specifically, they grew up in a time where American exceptionalism was no longer a "thing" and weren't taught to believe there was any issue in buying Japanese or German cars. The Greatest Generation, on the other hand, still seem to be strongly loyal to the Big 3 Automakers.

To an extent, the only exception to all of this is with respect to SUVs and Trucks. The Japanese and Germans simply can't build them like the Big 3 can, so Americans have no choice but to consider Ford / GM / Chrysler when buying them.

[canuck]

You give your fellow Americans too much credit.

In an extremely rare instance, what Wesley Mouch says has a smidgen of truth to it. There's a large segment of Americans that want nothing to do with the Big 3 Automakers and the cars they sell. They can walk on water and lay golden goose eggs for the rest of eternity and you won't be able to convince this segment otherwise. Just see the fact that GM's and Ford's stock price have virtually been stuck in neutral despite record profits and sales the past couple of years [[which defies all fundamentals) while a company like Tesla that's been losing money hand over fist has seen its stock price skyrocket to the moon during the same time.

Part of it is in fact politics. Many are still peeved about the bailout back in 2008/2009 because in their mind, seeing millions of peoples out of work and an industry that accounts for 7-8% of the country's GDP wiped out wasn't nearly as important as free market economic principles to them.

These feelings seem to permeate the most amongst those in the second half of the Baby Boomer cohort and younger. A lot of people in the aforementioned age group have very bad memories of driving the shit boxes Ford / GM / Chrysler were peddling back in the 70s through 90s. And then as far as millennials specifically, they grew up in a time where American exceptionalism was no longer a "thing" and weren't taught to believe there was any issue in buying Japanese or German cars. The Greatest Generation, on the other hand, still seem to be strongly loyal to the Big 3 Automakers.

To an extent, the only exception to all of this is with respect to SUVs and Trucks. The Japanese and Germans simply can't build them like the Big 3 can, so Americans have no choice but to consider Ford / GM / Chrysler when buying them.

In Quebec, there was a long period when people would buy small cars over big due to the cost of fuel which is still probably higher than anywhere else in NA. But the latest statistics show that SUV's and pick-ups have been top sellers last year like the rest of US and Canada. As 313wx says, the Pick-up category is unbeaten by the Japanese except for SUV's which in Montreal anyways tend to run the gamut from BMW, Range Rover, Mercedes and the like to the Japanese and American brands. But I believe there are fewer American made SUV's sold here than European ones.

[GMan]

Serious question. What does the Volt do for heat? Is it electric? That's got to be some battery drain in the cold weather.

A former coworker had one of the early Volts and was enamored with the battery management system. He mentioned a combination of electric / engine heat.
Here's an article referencing the heating / cooling system.

http://gm-volt.com/2016/01/14/cold-w...ng-procedures/

[bust]

You give your fellow Americans too much credit.

In an extremely rare instance, what Wesley Mouch says has a smidgen of truth to it. There's a large segment of Americans that want nothing to do with the Big 3 Automakers and the cars they sell. They can walk on water and lay golden goose eggs for the rest of eternity and you won't be able to convince this segment otherwise. Just see the fact that GM's and Ford's stock price have virtually been stuck in neutral despite record profits and sales the past couple of years [[which defies all fundamentals) while a company like Tesla that's been losing money hand over fist has seen its stock price skyrocket to the moon during the same time.

Part of it is in fact politics. Many are still peeved about the bailout back in 2008/2009 because in their mind, seeing millions of peoples out of work and an industry that accounts for 7-8% of the country's GDP wiped out wasn't nearly as important as free market economic principles to them.

These feelings seem to permeate the most amongst those in the second half of the Baby Boomer cohort and younger. A lot of people in the aforementioned age group have very bad memories of driving the shit boxes Ford / GM / Chrysler were peddling back in the 70s through 90s. And then as far as millennials specifically, they grew up in a time where American exceptionalism was no longer a "thing" and weren't taught to believe there was any issue in buying Japanese or German cars. The Greatest Generation, on the other hand, still seem to be strongly loyal to the Big 3 Automakers.

To an extent, the only exception to all of this is with respect to SUVs and Trucks. The Japanese and Germans simply can't build them like the Big 3 can, so Americans have no choice but to consider Ford / GM / Chrysler when buying them.

I don't doubt those people exist. But I doubt they represent a large segment of Americans, or even a large percentage of Prius owners. My point is people who buy Priuses do so for all kinds of reasons. A big one is to save money when gas is expensive. They aren't all comic book Che Guevara t-shirt wearing communistas. Many would be happy to buy American. Even many communistas [[what few exist) buy American. Not only that, I hear even some republicans still care about a healthy environment. It's foolish to paint Prius owners with such a broad cartoon stroke. Besides, Prius owners are only a small segment of the market.

The Bolt can be a success. It will require a few things. Chief among them will be skillful execution from GM.

Lots of things happen cyclically. Remember how crazy people were for gas guzzlers in the late 60's - early 70's, and what happened next.