Game change

[mikeg19]

I guess were gonna need to hear particulars on this. They really didn't take up that much space previously. Now if they were to add 6 or 7 more storefronts or an additional level, then I can see that as a major investment. But is this just going to be a rotating inventory of goods? Is it going to be called a "mall", because it doesn't really fit the model. It's good to see that more retail will be coming though, that's for sure.

[WPitonya]

I agree; I hope it's additional storefronts and I hope they don't call it a mall. Malls in urban downtowns go against current urban planning standards.

[hybridy]

I agree; I hope it's additional storefronts and I hope they don't call it a mall. Malls in urban downtowns go against current urban planning standards.

Strongly agree! Here's what the Mormons did tho
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Creek_Center

[Bham1982]

I agree; I hope it's additional storefronts and I hope they don't call it a mall. Malls in urban downtowns go against current urban planning standards.

Since when? Lots of malls going up in the most urban centers around the world.

In Manhattan alone:

-Related Cos. is building a 1 million square ft. mall in Hudson Yards anchored by Neiman Marcus
-Westfield Group is building a 400,000 square foot mall at the WTC
-Brookfield Properties totally redeveloped the World Financial Center retail into a new luxury mall anchored by Saks
-Fosum Intl. is building a 250,000 square foot mall beneath Chase Manhattan Plaza.
-A million square foot mall is of indoor retail is planned in the old post office.
-Extell plans a mall on a blockfront it owns along Fifth Ave.

And if you go outside the U.S., malls are going up everywhere, in urban and suburban locations.

[bust]

Since when? Lots of malls going up in the most urban centers around the world.

In Manhattan alone:

-Related Cos. is building a 1 million square ft. mall in Hudson Yards anchored by Neiman Marcus
-Westfield Group is building a 400,000 square foot mall at the WTC
-Brookfield Properties totally redeveloped the World Financial Center retail into a new luxury mall anchored by Saks
-Fosum Intl. is building a 250,000 square foot mall beneath Chase Manhattan Plaza.
-A million square foot mall is of indoor retail is planned in the old post office.
-Extell plans a mall on a blockfront it owns along Fifth Ave.

And if you go outside the U.S., malls are going up everywhere, in urban and suburban locations.

There may some day exist these malls in Manhattan [[one already does), but it's important to be clear about the definition of "mall". Those that exist or are planned in Manhattan are or will be transit-oriented developments, without parking lots, and are much better integrated into the fabric of the city than the Nothland / Eastland / Southland / 12 Oaks / Fairlane etc. model that has characterized the country for the past half century. I doubt any will be branded "malls". They're also much smaller than the suburban definition of a mall. It's a particularly far stretch of the typical suburban definition to call the relatively modest plans for Chase Manhattan Plaza and 5th Ave "malls" [[despite Curbed's hyperbole). The others sit on top of or adjacent to some of the country's biggest transit hubs [[or are proposed for them). When the collection of shops are built at Hudson Yards I doubt it will be called a "mall", and people will be carrying their shopping bags home underground, on trains. People at the new WFC already do. And when stepping outside the WFC "mall" [[the only one listed that currently exists) you're immediately greeted by dense urbanity, no parking lot in sight. I think the only collection of shops actually called a "mall" in Manhattan is Manhattan Mall, and it's never seemed to do so well.

So perhaps you're both right. The mall, as defined by the Northland etc. Gruen example is completely contradictory to current urban planning standards. But smaller [[to rare mid-sized) urban malls integrated into transit hubs or close nearby do potentially make sense.

Bham I'm not sure there's such a plan for the post office. I've heard only along the lines of this, which is wishful thinking. What will happen there is far from certain and 1 million square feet seems too much. Do you have more info I missed?