Preparatory Work for M-1 Rail Begins

[professorscott]

It amazes me that the city was too cheap and simply paved over the old rails. The still stick out here an there.

Lowell, there just wasn't any reason to remove them, and it's quite expensive to do it. There are lots of cities where the old streetcar tracks have just been paved over. When Livernois was reconstructed and made into a boulevard in the area around U of D several years ago they were pulling out old streetcar tracks. I bet they are still buried under Fort, Gratiot, Michigan and so forth. Many times, abandoning old infrastructure in place is a reasonable treatment.

[Hermod]

It amazes me that the city was too cheap and simply paved over the old rails. The still stick out here an there.

Very common, I have seen it in other cities as well.

[Honky Tonk]

Lowell, there just wasn't any reason to remove them, and it's quite expensive to do it. There are lots of cities where the old streetcar tracks have just been paved over. When Livernois was reconstructed and made into a boulevard in the area around U of D several years ago they were pulling out old streetcar tracks. I bet they are still buried under Fort, Gratiot, Michigan and so forth. Many times, abandoning old infrastructure in place is a reasonable treatment.

Another reason why the Blight Rail is going to be nothing more then a parking lot tender. If it's expensive to remove rails, it's going to be even more expensive to put them in. With all the infrastructure problems Detroit has, putting in steel rails should be on the back-burner. Where is the funding coming from? The few taxpayers that are left?

[stasu1213]

Lowell, there just wasn't any reason to remove them, and it's quite expensive to do it. There are lots of cities where the old streetcar tracks have just been paved over. When Livernois was reconstructed and made into a boulevard in the area around U of D several years ago they were pulling out old streetcar tracks. I bet they are still buried under Fort, Gratiot, Michigan and so forth. Many times, abandoning old infrastructure in place is a reasonable treatment.

I am surprise that the tracks can't be reused especially with the technology there is to modernize the tracks so that the current could run through them instead of overhang wires

[SpartanDawg]

Another reason why the Blight Rail is going to be nothing more then a parking lot tender. If it's expensive to remove rails, it's going to be even more expensive to put them in. With all the infrastructure problems Detroit has, putting in steel rails should be on the back-burner. Where is the funding coming from? The few taxpayers that are left?

how don't you know this yet buddy... 90% private money

[professorscott]

I am surprise that the tracks can't be reused especially with the technology there is to modernize the tracks so that the current could run through them instead of overhang wires

Two reasons the track probably couldn't have been reused: steel deteriorates over time, and the tracks aren't in the right place. Also, steel is relatively cheap; what costs all the money is what goes under the steel and the actual work of putting in the tracks, adding turnouts, welding and so forth. Generally people cost more than stuff.

As regards your second point, M1 is going to be largely off-wire so there won't be overhead wire along the whole route. There will be some. The track-power technology you mentioned, so far as I have been able to tell, has never been used or tested in places that get significant snowfall in the winter.

[Mackinaw]

Another reason why the Blight Rail is going to be nothing more then a parking lot tender. If it's expensive to remove rails, it's going to be even more expensive to put them in. With all the infrastructure problems Detroit has, putting in steel rails should be on the back-burner. Where is the funding coming from? The few taxpayers that are left?

Hellooooooooo? Read the paper much? 90% private 10% feds. The "few remaining" taxpayers of Detroit, as you put it, are not being charged more than a fraction of a cent for this...to the extent they pay federal income tax. Is that okay with you?

Geeez, what a tea-party-like disregard for the truth. Just go around making up ideas and premises and polluting the air with misconception. Totally okay. NOT ON THIS BOARD BUDDY.

[Honky Tonk]

how don't you know this yet buddy... 90% private money

Hold on there, cowboy. I know THAT part of it is "supposedly" private money, though I'm not too sure it's @ 90%. I'm talking about these grandiose plans to run it all over town as viable mass transportation. Is THAT gouing to be Federally and privately funded too?

[Honky Tonk]

Just go around making up ideas and premises and polluting the air with misconception.

You mean like you taking my post out of context?

[Hermod]

I am surprise that the tracks can't be reused especially with the technology there is to modernize the tracks so that the current could run through them instead of overhang wires

The tracks are "bonded" because the streetcars got their positive feed though the overhead wire and their return through the tracks [[they were DC). One of the reasons for abandonment was that the tracks and roadbed were worn out and a cost effectiveness study revealed that it was cheaper to pave them over and use buses than to rehab them.

Detroit was jacking DUR around for years before forcing them to sell out cheap to DSR. Because of the long term uncertainty over whether or not their franchise/charter would be renewed as well as the low profitability of the industry, the DUR was way behind in track maintenance and upgrade. When DSR took over the trolleys from DUR, the system was falling apart. DSR just put bandaids on the infrastructure from 1922 to final abandonment in 1956. Detroiters were sold a bill of goods as to how much profit the "greedy" DUR was raking in. They took it over and found themselves running at a deficit.

[Spartan]

Another reason why the Blight Rail is going to be nothing more then a parking lot tender. If it's expensive to remove rails, it's going to be even more expensive to put them in. With all the infrastructure problems Detroit has, putting in steel rails should be on the back-burner. Where is the funding coming from? The few taxpayers that are left?

Yeah, let's put more money into fixing them roads!

[Honky Tonk]

Yeah, let's put more money into fixing them roads!

You mean the ones that 90% of the taxpayers use????

[dtowncitylover]

Hold on there, cowboy. I know THAT part of it is "supposedly" private money, though I'm not too sure it's @ 90%. I'm talking about these grandiose plans to run it all over town as viable mass transportation. Is THAT gouing to be Federally and privately funded too?

Hopefully by the time extensions come around it will be federally and locally [[through the RTA) funded like how PUBLIC transit is supposed to be.

[dtowncitylover]

You mean the ones that 90% of the taxpayers use????

And they use them because Metro Detroiters have been brainwashed to believe cars and roads are the only answer to mobility needs in a local setting.

[Honky Tonk]

And they use them because Metro Detroiters have been brainwashed to believe cars and roads are the only answer to mobility needs in a local setting.

Well then, it's a good thing your brain has seen the light. Now go forth and convert everyone else to your way of thinking.

[animatedmartian]

I am surprise that the tracks can't be reused especially with the technology there is to modernize the tracks so that the current could run through them instead of overhang wires

It's not so much that. It's the fact that the rails are rusted and bent to crap from just sitting there 60+ years unmaintained. It would take more than a good clean to have those rails reusable again.

[Danny]

You mean the ones that 90% of the taxpayers use????

To build a choo choo train to nowheresville.

[Spartan]

You mean the ones that 90% of the taxpayers use????

More like 100%, unfortunately.

[Hermod]

It's not so much that. It's the fact that the rails are rusted and bent to crap from just sitting there 60+ years unmaintained. It would take more than a good clean to have those rails reusable again.

They aren't bent to crap from sitting there, they are bent to crap from long use. The rails could easily be melted down and rerolled. Is it profitable to do that or to just leave them there under the streets?

[Honky Tonk]

The rails could easily be melted down and rerolled. Is it profitable to do that or to just leave them there under the streets?

Would it be more profitable for Detroit to roll their own?

[dtowncitylover]

Well then, it's a good thing your brain has seen the light. Now go forth and convert everyone else to your way of thinking.

Way to be condescending. Very classy. It's not about "my way" of thinking. It's about rebuilding an urban area. That doesn't include widening highways and creating parking lots, it's about building mass transit, density, and vibrancy. You wanna live in the suburbs and use your car everyday, go right ahead. But for those of us who want to see Detroit become an urban center, we will support M-1 Rail. It will be no more "subsidized" than your 8 lane boulevards and highways.

[Hermod]

Would it be more profitable for Detroit to roll their own?

Not unless you wish to use tax money to create a rolling mill. Rails also come in longer lengths these day and are welded rather than fish-plated together.

[Honky Tonk]

Way to be condescending. Very classy. It's not about "my way" of thinking. It's about rebuilding an urban area. That doesn't include widening highways and creating parking lots, it's about building mass transit, density, and vibrancy. You wanna live in the suburbs and use your car everyday, go right ahead. But for those of us who want to see Detroit become an urban center, we will support M-1 Rail. It will be no more "subsidized" than your 8 lane boulevards and highways.

I don't live in the 'burbs, I live in Detroit. The Blight Rail is going to do absolutely nothing for me, or anyone else I know that needs viable, reliable mass transit. But go ahead, pour money into a parking lot shuttle to support Mike, Dan, and the hundreds of suburbans that might use it, line all of their pockets, then go home. Me, I'm brainwashed... must have car.... must go to work.... must give money to Mike and yupsters........ must make Detroit better......

[dtowncitylover]

I don't live in the 'burbs, I live in Detroit. The Blight Rail is going to do absolutely nothing for me, or anyone else I know that needs viable, reliable mass transit. But go ahead, pour money into a parking lot shuttle to support Mike, Dan, and the hundreds of suburbans that might use it, line all of their pockets, then go home. Me, I'm brainwashed... must have car.... must go to work.... must give money to Mike and yupsters........ must make Detroit better......

It doesn't benefit me either since I live in the burbs, but I know transit systems weren't built in a day. DC, Houston, Portland are all great example of cities who had to rebuild their transit systems and found great success in doing so. I'm sorry there isn't a stop outside your door, but maybe there will be one close by and walk-able to someday. You're not brainwashed for having a car, you're brainwashed into thinking it's the only option available when in fact it isn't. You can have reliable mass transit, we just need to put pressure on the powers that be to fund it and build it.

[Hermod]

we just need to put pressure on the powers that be to fund it and build it.

Gee, I wonder where all of that money came from that the PTB have stashed away just waiting for one of your bright ideas.