Unarmed teen shot inside homeowner's fenced yard -- not breaking into home

**Downriviera** · July-31-13, 05:54 PM

Trayvon was just walking home from the store. He wasn't in anybody's backyard by anyone's back door. He was walking in plain view in the common area to get back to his father's place.

How do you know this? The timeline does not support TM walking on the sidewalk straight to his father's girlfriends house. GZ reported a suspicious person looking in windows. TM was found previously by police with a breakin tool and stolen jewlery.

**firstandten** · July-31-13, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Trayvon was just walking home from the store. He wasn't in anybody's backyard by anyone's back door. He was walking in plain view in the common area to get back to his father's place.

How do you know this? The timeline does not support TM walking on the sidewalk straight to his father's girlfriends house. GZ reported a suspicious person looking in windows. TM was found previously by police with a breakin tool and stolen jewlery.

Never heard that how about providing some documentation in support.

**Downriviera** · July-31-13, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Never heard that how able providing some documentation in support.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/2...t-trayvon.html

**firstandten** · July-31-13, 09:33 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Trayvon was just walking home from the store. He wasn't in anybody's backyard by anyone's back door. He was walking in plain view in the common area to get back to his father's place.

How do you know this? The timeline does not support TM walking on the sidewalk straight to his father's girlfriends house. GZ reported a suspicious person looking in windows. TM was found previously by police with a breakin tool and stolen jewlery.

Thank you for providing the link. First of all the article did not state that GZ said that TM was looking into windows. It states that TM looked high on drugs and was walking too slowly in the rain with a hoodie on. That is a big miss on your part. How did you get that in the article. Also how would GZ know he was high, TM was talking on his cell to his girlfriend he had on his hoodie because it was raining. So what if he was walking slowly in the rain hell, it rains so much in Florida people call it liquid sunshine and for many its no big deal. Now about the break-in tool and stolen jewelry there was no report of stolen jewelry however they suspected that it might be stolen, and they found marijuana residue. Bottom line is what did that have to do with what happened with his death, and for you to say not once but twice that GZ said he was looking into windows was irresponsible on your part.

**Crumbled_pavement** · August-01-13, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

Trayvon was just walking home from the store. He wasn't in anybody's backyard by anyone's back door. He was walking in plain view in the common area to get back to his father's place.

How do you know this? The timeline does not support TM walking on the sidewalk straight to his father's girlfriends house. GZ reported a suspicious person looking in windows. TM was found previously by police with a breakin tool and stolen jewlery.

First off, I second what firstandten said. Secondly, Trayvon did have a shotty record, I don't deny that. However, it did not appear at the time Zimmerman spotted him that he was in process of trying to break into anything. In fact, considering he was just visiting his father and went to to the store during halftime of a basketball game, it is quite doubtful his plan was to do a quick b&e and get back home before the third quarter started.

Marshall Coulter appeared to be in the process of initiating a b&e. At someone's backdoor at 2am? What could he have possibly have been doing that was legit at that hour in some strange person's backyard?

**Downriviera** · August-01-13, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

First off, I second what firstandten said. Secondly, Trayvon did have a shotty record, I don't deny that. However, it did not appear at the time Zimmerman spotted him that he was in process of trying to break into anything. In fact, considering he was just visiting his father and went to to the store during halftime of a basketball game, it is quite doubtful his plan was to do a quick b&e and get back home before the third quarter started.

Marshall Coulter appeared to be in the process of initiating a b&e. At someone's backdoor at 2am? What could he have possibly have been doing that was legit at that hour in some strange person's backyard?

The NBA game started at 8pm est, so this happened before the game. Zimmerman stated to 911 that TM was acting suspicious and looking at houses. I stand corrected about looking in windows. But if you are looking at houses, houses have windows that are easy to look in after dark. So I think its safe to assume he was looking in windows and not just walking straight down the sidewalk. This would look suspicious in a high crime area after dark.

When this incident first happened, I thought GZ was guilty of murder. It just so happened I was home on medical during the trial and basically watched the whole thing. The testimony of the investigating officer was very compelling. I also got to know things the jury didn't. The fact that the police lied to GZ and said they had everything on video. GZ response to that was "Thank God". GZ also demonstrated the whole incident at the scene for the investigators the next day, without a lawyer present. You have to be pretty confident to do that without legal representation. All this combined with the coroner's testimony, the time line, the 911 tapes, background on TM etc. lead me to believe this incident happened the way GZ said. I still think GZ should have stayed in the car, but I understand his frustration with crime and wanting to give police the exact location of this suspicious person. I don't believe GZ is the monster the press has made him out to be.

I don't think TM was a hardened criminal either. He was a troubled youth heading in the wrong direction with his life. I wish he didn't attack GZ and they just talked instead. Maybe GZ could have mentored him as he had other youths. Tragic case all the way around.

**firstandten** · August-01-13, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

The NBA game started at 8pm est, so this happened before the game. Zimmerman stated to 911 that TM was acting suspicious and looking at houses. I stand corrected about looking in windows. But if you are looking at houses, houses have windows that are easy to look in after dark. So I think its safe to assume he was looking in windows and not just walking straight down the sidewalk. This would look suspicious in a high crime area after dark.

When this incident first happened, I thought GZ was guilty of murder. It just so happened I was home on medical during the trial and basically watched the whole thing. The testimony of the investigating officer was very compelling. I also got to know things the jury didn't. The fact that the police lied to GZ and said they had everything on video. GZ response to that was "Thank God". GZ also demonstrated the whole incident at the scene for the investigators the next day, without a lawyer present. You have to be pretty confident to do that without legal representation. All this combined with the coroner's testimony, the time line, the 911 tapes, background on TM etc. lead me to believe this incident happened the way GZ said. I still think GZ should have stayed in the car, but I understand his frustration with crime and wanting to give police the exact location of this suspicious person. I don't believe GZ is the monster the press has made him out to be.

I don't think TM was a hardened criminal either. He was a troubled youth heading in the wrong direction with his life. I wish he didn't attack GZ and they just talked instead. Maybe GZ could have mentored him as he had other youths. Tragic case all the way around.

Again Downriviera, according to the link you provided GZ never said he was looking at houses, he said he was walking slow nothing in that article said he was looking at houses, windows whatever. Even if he was looking at houses its a big stretch to assume that he might be looking to do a B&E. See its that kind of profiling that upsets African Americans. GZ should have known better I assume he had neighborhood watch training and he should followed his training and the advice of the dispatcher. In my mind he is guilty of bad judgment and I hope the Martin family sues the guy in civil court.

**Downriviera** · August-02-13, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by firstandten

Again Downriviera, according to the link you provided GZ never said he was looking at houses, he said he was walking slow nothing in that article said he was looking at houses, windows whatever. Even if he was looking at houses its a big stretch to assume that he might be looking to do a B&E. See its that kind of profiling that upsets African Americans. GZ should have known better I assume he had neighborhood watch training and he should followed his training and the advice of the dispatcher. In my mind he is guilty of bad judgment and I hope the Martin family sues the guy in civil court.

GZ said he was looking at all the houses in the 911 tape, link below. Lots of bad judgement to go around. Bad judgement by GZ to get out of his vehicle. Bad judgement by TM to confront and attack. Bad judgement by TM's parents for letting him out after dark while on suspension from school.

As for the differences in the two shootings, there are many. One theme remains. Lack of parental supervision.

http://www.documentcloud.org/documen...zimmerman.html

**Kevgoblue** · August-03-13, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

GZ said he was looking at all the houses in the 911 tape, link below. Lots of bad judgement to go around. Bad judgement by GZ to get out of his vehicle. Bad judgement by TM to confront and attack. Bad judgement by TM's parents for letting him out after dark while on suspension from school.

As for the differences in the two shootings, there are many. One theme remains. Lack of parental supervision.

??? Lack of parental supervision? Perhaps you forgot, the incident occurred in February. On the eastern seaboard, sunset in February is somewhere around 6pm. The 911 call was around 7:15 pm.
So you're saying a 17 year old shouldn't be allowed out of the house at 7:00?
And the only one to say that Treyvon attacked GZ was GZ. The man who shot him. What else would you expect him to say? He was on trial for murder.

Why do you have such a hard-on for Treyvon? I'm not necessarily defending him or vouching for his character, but all this stuff you say is B.S. GZ had no information regarding him smoking weed, getting in trouble in school, not eating all his spinach, etc. You throwing out whatever dirt you could find about the kid is a strawman. GZ knew none of this. He only saw a kid walking down the street that he decided on his own accord was suspicious.

**Zacha341** · August-03-13, 08:18 AM

Awesome point relative to the Martin/ Zimmerman case!

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Why do you have such a hard-on for Treyvon? I'm not necessarily defending him or vouching for his character, but all this stuff you say is B.S. GZ had no information regarding him smoking weed, getting in trouble in school, not eating all his spinach, etc. You throwing out whatever dirt you could find about the kid is a strawman. GZ knew none of this. He only saw a kid walking down the street that he decided on his own accord was suspicious.

**Downriviera** · August-03-13, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

??? Lack of parental supervision? Perhaps you forgot, the incident occurred in February. On the eastern seaboard, sunset in February is somewhere around 6pm. The 911 call was around 7:15 pm.
So you're saying a 17 year old shouldn't be allowed out of the house at 7:00?
And the only one to say that Treyvon attacked GZ was GZ. The man who shot him. What else would you expect him to say? He was on trial for murder.

Why do you have such a hard-on for Treyvon? I'm not necessarily defending him or vouching for his character, but all this stuff you say is B.S. GZ had no information regarding him smoking weed, getting in trouble in school, not eating all his spinach, etc. You throwing out whatever dirt you could find about the kid is a strawman. GZ knew none of this. He only saw a kid walking down the street that he decided on his own accord was suspicious.

I know I grew up in different times, but I still think if you are suspended from school you should not be out after dark. I was suspended from school and whipped so hard it hurt to sit. Confined to my room for a month, no TV, radio, games, phone. No going outside day or night.

I favored no sides in this. As I stated earlier I watched the entire trial and my opinions are based on that.

You're right about GZ not knowing TM's background or TM not knowing GZ's background at the time of the incident. It all comes down to the confrontation and attack. You're saying the only one to say TM attacked is GZ, but the investigators are saying this too. They had all the evidence, facts, witness testimony, timeline etc. If you're saying that TM did not attack GZ, then we can agree to disagree because the investigation does not support this.

**Crumbled_pavement** · August-02-13, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by Downriviera

The NBA game started at 8pm est, so this happened before the game. Zimmerman stated to 911 that TM was acting suspicious and looking at houses. I stand corrected about looking in windows. But if you are looking at houses, houses have windows that are easy to look in after dark. So I think its safe to assume he was looking in windows and not just walking straight down the sidewalk. This would look suspicious in a high crime area after dark.

When this incident first happened, I thought GZ was guilty of murder. It just so happened I was home on medical during the trial and basically watched the whole thing. The testimony of the investigating officer was very compelling. I also got to know things the jury didn't. The fact that the police lied to GZ and said they had everything on video. GZ response to that was "Thank God". GZ also demonstrated the whole incident at the scene for the investigators the next day, without a lawyer present. You have to be pretty confident to do that without legal representation. All this combined with the coroner's testimony, the time line, the 911 tapes, background on TM etc. lead me to believe this incident happened the way GZ said. I still think GZ should have stayed in the car, but I understand his frustration with crime and wanting to give police the exact location of this suspicious person. I don't believe GZ is the monster the press has made him out to be.

I don't think TM was a hardened criminal either. He was a troubled youth heading in the wrong direction with his life. I wish he didn't attack GZ and they just talked instead. Maybe GZ could have mentored him as he had other youths. Tragic case all the way around.

We're getting way off topic and debating whether Trayvon was the aggressor or Zimmerman. There are two huge threads on Non Detroit already devoted to that and I think every aspect of both sides has been discussed. My statement, which it seems you took to say Trayvon was innocent, was not really to defend Trayvon as much as it was to differentiate between the two scenarios. To get back on topic, let me ask you this, do you think it is more suspicious to see someone walking slowly in the rain at evening time with a hoodie on or someone out at 2am inside your backyard by your back door? I think that was the point I was trying to make.