Wayne State and their never ending tuition increases

[Wesley Mouch]

I'm going to take a shot in the dark, and assume you didn't pay for a college degree.

Brilliant. You're right, I didn't pay -- scholarship did the trick. Regardless of that, the cost in those dark ages was affordable -- it was before student loans allowed the schools to raise tuition.

You don't see the connection, do you? Student loans are a significant factor in high tuition, IMO. I'd like to see a study of correlating student loans outstanding against tuitions.

While on this topic, do you think health care got cheaper after the UAW won [[significantly) free health care?

Cause -> Effect. Not of course sole factor.

[ghettopalmetto]

Brilliant. You're right, I didn't pay -- scholarship did the trick. Regardless of that, the cost in those dark ages was affordable -- it was before student loans allowed the schools to raise tuition.

You don't see the connection, do you? Student loans are a significant factor in high tuition, IMO. I'd like to see a study of correlating student loans outstanding against tuitions.

While on this topic, do you think health care got cheaper after the UAW won [[significantly) free health care?

Cause -> Effect. Not of course sole factor.

Might as well get rid of mortgages, then. They just make housing way too expensive.

What's your alternative--eliminate student loans and thus ensure that higher education becomes the strict province of the wealthy? Or are you going to argue some unsubstantiated economic voodoo bullshit?

You're aware that Wayne State, as a public university, has a budget that is very much public. You're welcome to review it anytime you want. Then you can tell us exactly how "overpaid" all those state employees are....

[JBMcB]

Might as well get rid of mortgages, then. They just make housing way too expensive.

Were you sleeping through the real estate bubble? The government artificially kept lending rates low, housing prices shot up. Float the rate and housing prices stabilize where they should be. Same situation with student loans - the misuse/overuse of artificially low rates is pushing up prices. This is pretty basic economics.

Then you can tell us exactly how "overpaid" all those state employees are....

When I went to WSU I paid my way through working minimum wage jobs through the school year, then full time in the summer. The campus hadn't changed significantly since my mom went in the 70's - it was pretty shabby, but I went to learn, not appreciate post-modern architecture.

A decade later and WSU is full of shiny new buildings and properties, and tuition is more than double. It's not hard to figure out where the money is going.

[ghettopalmetto]

Were you sleeping through the real estate bubble? The government artificially kept lending rates low, housing prices shot up. Float the rate and housing prices stabilize where they should be. Same situation with student loans - the misuse/overuse of artificially low rates is pushing up prices. This is pretty basic economics.



When I went to WSU I paid my way through working minimum wage jobs through the school year, then full time in the summer. The campus hadn't changed significantly since my mom went in the 70's - it was pretty shabby, but I went to learn, not appreciate post-modern architecture.

A decade later and WSU is full of shiny new buildings and properties, and tuition is more than double. It's not hard to figure out where the money is going.

You're right. It's all those God damned Poors who keep driving up the cost of everything by getting themselves into hock for an education and a place to live. When will these peasants realize that normal lives are only for people born into money?

[Wesley Mouch]

You're right. It's all those God damned Poors who keep driving up the cost of everything by getting themselves into hock for an education and a place to live. When will these peasants realize that normal lives are only for people born into money?

GP, I also strongly believe that your 'peasants' deserve a quality education. My father went from abject rural poverty to the college educated professional via GI Bill. If you want to help those in poverty, give them an education. Just pay the college costs with NO LOAN.

The loan you seem to love is the real oppression of the poor. You can squirm, but supporting student loans is supporting unaffordable college education on the backs of the working class.

JBmcB: Were you sleeping through the real estate bubble? The government artificially kept lending rates low, housing prices shot up. Float the rate and housing prices stabilize where they should be. Same situation with student loans - the misuse/overuse of artificially low rates is pushing up prices. This is pretty basic economics.

For a second, put down your rhetoric and your prejudices about the world. This is pretty basic economics, and if you accept this, you will realize the folly of much of our public policy that says it helps the poor, but really just oppresses them.

And while I'm on my soapbox, can we get rid of the mortgage interest deduction that supports the rich and inflates home prices for working-class?

[ghettopalmetto]

GP, I also strongly believe that your 'peasants' deserve a quality education. My father went from abject rural poverty to the college educated professional via GI Bill. If you want to help those in poverty, give them an education. Just pay the college costs with NO LOAN.

The loan you seem to love is the real oppression of the poor. You can squirm, but supporting student loans is supporting unaffordable college education on the backs of the working class.

Believe me, I know all about student loans. I would prefer that we were like any other civilized nation, and provide low-cost of free university education to our citizens. Such a thing is considered "socialist" in good ole Murrica, though.

I have this crazy theory that, when states start cutting taxes, there isn't enough money for everything. Higher education funding is one of the first items on the chopping list. Given the alternative [[not receiving a degree), student loans are a compromise. But to blame loans for rising tuition costs? There's no evidence to support that.

[Wesley Mouch]

Believe me, I know all about student loans. I would prefer that we were like any other civilized nation, and provide low-cost of free university education to our citizens. Such a thing is considered "socialist" in good ole Murrica, though.

I have this crazy theory that, when states start cutting taxes, there isn't enough money for everything. Higher education funding is one of the first items on the chopping list. Given the alternative [[not receiving a degree), student loans are a compromise. But to blame loans for rising tuition costs? There's no evidence to support that.

GP, we agree on low-cost university education. The question is how to get there.

Cost cutting is almost always done to vital services first. Education, police, fire. Why? Because the people in charge certainly never see themselves as something to cut. They cut what most pains the taxpayers. That's how you get more revenues. Millage for schools has a chance. Millage for pension benefits for accountants, less sellable.

I do hope you take seriously the discussion about why student loans [[and health insurance and mortgages) do help reduce affordability. If you want to achieve social good, you will only do so if you accept the laws of economics. Otherwise you are on a threadmill. More loans, higher tuition require more loans and then higher tuition.

But I do accept that loans are here to stay. So what we've done is accept that there's a social value to education [[good), and we've chosen to have everyone pay for that value is a non-progressive way. Me, libertarian, think that this should be funded by general tax revenues that are progressive -- as they should be.