Freep: It's time for Gov. Snyder to appoint an emergency manager for Detroit

[gnome]

There is transom talk that Colin Powell has been asked and is considering the opportunity.

[Novine]

"Is there really not enough revenue or is it so badly managed it's completely wasted?"
I'm going with the not enough revenue view. Haven't we seen with DPS that even when you give an EFM sweeping powers to cut and fire and reduce costs that the schools still couldn't be run without incurring a deficit? Detroit is an impoverished city and no amount of cutting is going to change that fact. It will likely just make it even worse.

[Honky Tonk]

"Is there really not enough revenue or is it so badly managed it's completely wasted?"
I'm going with the not enough revenue view. Haven't we seen with DPS that even when you give an EFM sweeping powers to cut and fire and reduce costs that the schools still couldn't be run without incurring a deficit? Detroit is an impoverished city and no amount of cutting is going to change that fact. It will likely just make it even worse.

The fact that an independent study claims 80% of the DWSD can be eliminated, leads me to believe the badly managed/waste theory.

[mwilbert]

The fact that an independent study claims 80% of the DWSD can be eliminated, leads me to believe the badly managed/waste theory.

There is no question that the city is badly managed, but remember that it also is providing minimal services and has an enormous debt much of which is soon going to come due and which the city may well not be able to roll over. I am unaware of anyone sane who thinks the city has enough money to function like a normal city government. The mismanagement just makes the situation worse.

It is likely that if the city had been run better over the past half-century that it wouldn't be in this situation now, but that doesn't really address the current problems.

[Honky Tonk]

There is no question that the city is badly managed, but remember that it also is providing minimal services and has an enormous debt much of which is soon going to come due and which the city may well not be able to roll over. I am unaware of anyone sane who thinks the city has enough money to function like a normal city government. The mismanagement just makes the situation worse.

It is likely that if the city had been run better over the past half-century that it wouldn't be in this situation now, but that doesn't really address the current problems.

I agree with you that it's too late for the present crew to do a course correction. However, I've been on the inside, and I've never seen anything like it in my life. I don't think any private sector business could've lasted this long under those kind of existing conditions. It would be the equivalent of you walking into a store, laying your money down, and hoping someday your product/service would show up. And you keep doing this repeatedly, year after year. I was hoping that someone, the State, anyone, would step in, and start correcting these issues. But it's starting to look like it'll just be another drawn out game.

[iheartthed]

I agree with you that it's too late for the present crew to do a course correction. However, I've been on the inside, and I've never seen anything like it in my life. I don't think any private sector business could've lasted this long under those kind of existing conditions. It would be the equivalent of you walking into a store, laying your money down, and hoping someday your product/service would show up. And you keep doing this repeatedly, year after year. I was hoping that someone, the State, anyone, would step in, and start correcting these issues. But it's starting to look like it'll just be another drawn out game.

Detroit is a city, not a for profit corporation. Not sure why people keep expecting government entities to turn a profit. That's not their purpose.

[Honky Tonk]

Detroit is a city, not a for profit corporation. Not sure why people keep expecting government entities to turn a profit. That's not their purpose.

So what are you saying? Being a City entitles it to piss money away and be run into the ground? "Don't worry, we'll always get more". "We better use up the rest of that allowed budget, or you won't get more next year". That's been the thinking and attitude for the past 60 years, how did that work out for us? Running something with fiscal responsibility doesn't nesessarily make it a big bad profit turning corporation. I don't think they way it is being run is the purpose of a "City" either.

[Novine]

Where is that 80% waste? In the broken down firehouses where sewage runs freely? In the run down police cars and fire trucks? Crappy buses that break down? Lighting system that doesn't work? There's tens, if not hundreds, of millions in deferred and unmet needs that would just get city departments out of crisis mode. Even if there are a lot of incompetent or unskilled workers you've met along the way, sweeping out the deadwood isn't going to result in the kind of revenue that the city needs to keep itself out of a deficit.

[401don]

Is appointment of an EFM any kind of a state takeover in a legal sense? In other words, does the State have any kind of legal obligation to care for Detroit's citizens that it would not previously have? Could someone sue the state if no ambulance showed up? Also, a quick google search of EFM or EM provides only articles about Michigan. Does the same position exist in other states under another name?

[313WX]

Is appointment of an EFM any kind of a state takeover in a legal sense? In other words, does the State have any kind of legal obligation to care for Detroit's citizens that it would not previously have? Could someone sue the state if no ambulance showed up? Also, a quick google search of EFM or EM provides only articles about Michigan. Does the same position exist in other states under another name?

To answer your last question, every state has a form of receivership.

The difference between those and Michigan's is that many of the other states don't prevent their cities from filing for bankruptcy and none of the forms of receivership include the draconian powers an EM would have, such as ripping up contracts or selling assets.

[Hypestyles]

I hope for full transparency in whatever happens-- we'll see-- or not.

How long would the filing process for bankruptcy procedures take? how long would it take to get assigned to a federal judge?

[corktownyuppie]

Even if there are a lot of incompetent or unskilled workers you've met along the way, sweeping out the deadwood isn't going to result in the kind of revenue that the city needs to keep itself out of a deficit.

You're absolutely right. But you have to consider that before you can ask anyone to take cut from their pensions, their bond interest, or another entity to facilitate you borrowing more money, they're going to want to make sure that all of that money is going toward what we all agree is our long-term end goal: stabilizing the city finances and improving services.

What is wastefulness?

- The district court is budgeted for 285 employees, but it has 350. [[credit Steve Neavling, Motor City Muckraker)
- Maybe if we unloaded 60 unnecessary employees and transferred them to collections and enforcement, we could've collected more than just 7.7% of traffic tickets, parking violations and court fines, leading the city to miss out on $200 million a year.

$200MM PER YEAR.

==========

So look, I don't have any fairy tale fantasies that we can cut our way to prosperity. We are gonna need help in the form of creditor losses, haircuts on pensions and health care, etc.

But before anyone is going to reasonably be willing to help "fund the reconstruction" of Detroit, then they're going to want to make sure that we cut the fat and we operate lean, lean, lean, lean, lean.

You can make a very good argument that the region, the state, and our creditors will have a lot to lose if Detroit goes under. But it's hard to make an argument that they should take a haircut so that my Aunt Betty can punch in and punch out every day to make $45,000 per year plus pension and benefits when she doesn't do anything that will help improve our services to the citizens of the city.
-

[Wesley Mouch]

I have no doubt that its possible to run a city within Detroit's current revenues. You just have to decide what services really matter. When city council has more assistants than almost any other city in America, when the water board has an employee on each and every jobsite who can't work...

[Novine]

We've done this routine already. When asked to come up with an example of a city the size of Detroit operating on the budget that Detroit would have to have to operate without a deficit, no one could come up with a viable example that showed it would be possible. My earlier point is that for every saving you could find by getting rid of city council assistants, those savings would be sucked up in an instant if you were actually addressing the deferred needs that have to be met for the city to be able to provide services that are worth the taxes that residents and businesses are paying.

[Honky Tonk]

Where is that 80% waste? In the broken down firehouses where sewage runs freely? In the run down police cars and fire trucks? Crappy buses that break down? Lighting system that doesn't work? There's tens, if not hundreds, of millions in deferred and unmet needs that would just get city departments out of crisis mode. Even if there are a lot of incompetent or unskilled workers you've met along the way, sweeping out the deadwood isn't going to result in the kind of revenue that the city needs to keep itself out of a deficit.

That's silly, Novine. The state of the DPD, DFD, crappy police cars, buses, fire hoses, etc. are not the cause, but the end result of misappropriation of funds and priorities. Why on earth would you spend $65 mil on rejuvinating a building to a state-of-the-art police station, when you have no police to put in it? It's a nice touch, but they could've continued working out of 1300 Beaubien a while longer, while the City addressed it's actual crime problem. Once you get THAT under control and people feel warm & fuzzy about living here, THEN you take the new revenue and rebuild. That's just one example, but the list goes on and on. Read the Financial Review Team's final report.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...=2013302200104

I stick with my original analogy, you HAVE to run the City govenment as a business, otherwise you're left with exactly what's happened. Your customer base has gone.

[renf]

Could someone post a link to the pdf file of the Financial Review Team report and to their supplement to their own report?
Thank you.

[Honky Tonk]

Could someone post a link to the pdf file of the Financial Review Team report and to their supplement to their own report?
Thank you.

If you open the link I posted above to the article, in the article is the actual PDF report to the Governor.

[Packman41]

Wow! Long term debt of $14 Billion with a “B”

Let’s see how this works out. What would each resident owe if they were required to balance the books? Take $14 Billion and divide by 713,777 residents. That equals $19,613.97 per resident. So a family of 4 would have to pay $78,455.88 to the CofD in order to pay off the long term debt.

And that does not address the short-term, 2012 Deficit that was $326.6 Million. If the CofD continues operating in the red like this, then every resident will have to pay additional taxes of $457.57. Again, for a family of 4, that would be $1,830.26 of additional taxes each year.

Wow!

[fanniemae]

Joanne Watson could fix all these problems in 1 term as mayor. I really hope she runs

OMG, no ! Please no !

[bailey]

Detroit is a city, not a for profit corporation. Not sure why people keep expecting government entities to turn a profit. That's not their purpose.

I don't think anyone, anywhere, ever claimed that Detroit should "make a profit". I believe the goal and the expectation is that it should not spend more on services and debt obligations than it brings in. I think that is all anyone expects from government. If a government entity is making a profit, it's taxing its citizens too much.

[rex]

OMG, no ! Please no !

cmmon, Shes intelligent, reasonable and beautiful. Everything we need in a leader!!!!

[esteban]

The vast bulk of Detroit residents do not really care much about who runs the city...until a bunch of outside white, racist honkey-ass MoFo'ers take over. Only a fool would think they could disenfranchise this city's population without lighting the tinder of an out-of-control conflagration.
Me? I think an emergency manager is a good thing. Hopefully the resulting mess will have the Federal Government realize that the State of Michigan Administration is morally bankrupt and send its own emergency manager to run the state.

This State has spent decades strangling its largest city to death, and it would be foolish for Detroiters to expect any mercy from that quarter.

[nain rouge]

OK, I know, I know - pensions are something no one wants to talk about. But I just want to say that I fail to see how pensions are anything at all like other long-term debts. The pensioners didn't give Detroit loans to cover operating expenses, and they didn't provide any services that weren't already paid for a long time ago. It's not really debt so much as a ridiculous promise to hand out free money to employees that once worked for the city.

Of course, no one wants to talk about this issue because it's too much like social security, another untenable situation that the older generations are counting on for free money.

[noise]

OK, I know, I know - pensions are something no one wants to talk about. But I just want to say that I fail to see how pensions are anything at all like other long-term debts. The pensioners didn't give Detroit loans to cover operating expenses, and they didn't provide any services that weren't already paid for a long time ago. It's not really debt so much as a ridiculous promise to hand out free money to employees that once worked for the city.

Of course, no one wants to talk about this issue because it's too much like social security, another untenable situation that the older generations are counting on for free money.

No, it's just that nobody is taking the bait.

[DetBill]

Am just reading on the freep press about Councils reaction to the report and its the typical rhetoric about finding other means,,[[ there are none), and the oh so tiring rant of Joanne Watson and how the report is "Anti black" . Why does she need to inject racism in every evaluation ?.. She is the biggest racist I see on that council. She may have gotten away with the silliness before but her day has come,, The fact is the financial situation is a total mess, there is no city solution and its time to get this debacle straightened out..She takes absolutely no responsibility for contributing to this mess.. .The color crap is just plain ludicrous. Most of us are just plain tired of it all.