Detroit News poll: Crime drives Detroiters out; 40% expect to leave in 5 years

**Bham1982** · October-11-12, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Detroit is very walkable. It also has a ton of culture.

I agree that Detroit has a ton of culture, but it's almost completely unwalkable.

In terms of practical walkability, it's probably less walkable than Madison Heights. Sidewalks overgrown with weeds, broken glass and garbage everywhere, danger at nightfall, complete with broken streetlights, and the friendly neighborhood feral dogs.

Detroit is much more bikable, though. Nice and flat, wide streets with little traffic, and getting decent bike infrastructure in some of the core neighborhoods.

**Detroitnerd** · October-11-12, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I agree that Detroit has a ton of culture, but it's almost completely unwalkable.

In terms of practical walkability, it's probably less walkable than Madison Heights. Sidewalks overgrown with weeds, broken glass and garbage everywhere, danger at nightfall, complete with broken streetlights, and the friendly neighborhood feral dogs.

I dunno, man. I think your perception of Detroit is too much like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG6oy46qKE4

Whereas mine is more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpBhrjfetkk

**corktownyuppie** · October-11-12, 03:49 PM

[[1) I miss Rerun. I grew up watching this stuff on Channel 50.
[[2) That Detroit [[What's Happenin') is long gone and not coming back. The sooner we realize that and re-inventing ourselves, the better.

**Detroitnerd** · October-11-12, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

[[1) I miss Rerun. I grew up watching this stuff on Channel 50.
[[2) That Detroit [[What's Happenin') is long gone and not coming back. The sooner we realize that and re-inventing ourselves, the better.

I don't know about that. My neighborhood is pretty integrated and we all get along pretty well. Not everybody is a crack zombie waiting to stick a knife in you...

**DetBill** · October-11-12, 10:23 PM

Im a little confused about the comment that Detroit is unwalkable,, I live in Lafayette Park and have been walking everyday that I am home for the last 10 years, approximately 4-6 miles,, and often run, the loop thru greektown, downtown , along the river, up the dequindre cut and back home,, and the vast majority of these areas are pretty well kept. Sorry,, I would call that a walk, or run by any means. Many parts of Detroit are not walkable,, my area most certainly is and I have the years to prove it. I have never been mugged or accosted, I have been asked for money a couple of times but have actually had worse in other cities. Suggest that those who dont live here, but comment on Detroits total unwalkability and total disrepair join me someday. As far as I can tell my vision is fine and the areas are far from a mess. Id like to know what you would call my last 10 years. Those comments make me laugh. You really shouldnt blanket the whole city as a total write off.

**Bham1982** · October-12-12, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by DetBill

Im a little confused about the comment that Detroit is unwalkable,, I live in Lafayette Park and have been walking everyday that I am home for the last 10 years, approximately 4-6 miles,, and often run, the loop thru greektown, downtown , along the river, up the dequindre cut and back home,, and the vast majority of these areas are pretty well kept. .

I agree that the areas you described are all walkable, but that's like 2% of the city. Obviously Downtown, Lafayette Park, and Midtown are all walkable. The enclave-type neighborhoods are all walkable.

But 90% of the city isn't walkable, at least not from a practical standpoint. The vast majority of the city has poorly kept pedestrian rights-of-way, safety issues [[especially at night), lighting issues, and is generally hostile to the pedestrian.

**iheartthed** · October-12-12, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I agree that the areas you described are all walkable, but that's like 2% of the city. Obviously Downtown, Lafayette Park, and Midtown are all walkable. The enclave-type neighborhoods are all walkable.

But 90% of the city isn't walkable, at least not from a practical standpoint. The vast majority of the city has poorly kept pedestrian rights-of-way, safety issues [[especially at night), lighting issues, and is generally hostile to the pedestrian.

Lighting and crime doesn't negate that an area is physically walkable. If that were the case then New York wasn't walkable in the 70s and 80s.

**Bham1982** · October-12-12, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Lighting and crime doesn't negate that an area is physically walkable. If that were the case then New York wasn't walkable in the 70s and 80s.

I wasn't around in that time period, but I really do think Detroit is on another level than NYC back then.

Non-yuppie Detroit is very, very difficult to traverse from a pedestrian's perspective, IMO. I have tried, as I enjoy urban exploration, but there are too many wild dog packs and potential human confrontations, and just horribly crappy sidewalks, crossings and lighting. You always have to have your guard up.

NYC, even in its worst years, was always pedestrian and transit oriented, so I think the pedestrian realm, perhaps by default, was not quite as daunting. Most people walked, because that's how you get around. In Detroit, most have a car, and a pedestrian is kind of a sitting duck.

**iheartthed** · October-12-12, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I wasn't around in that time period, but I really do think Detroit is on another level than NYC back then.

Non-yuppie Detroit is very, very difficult to traverse from a pedestrian's perspective, IMO. I have tried, as I enjoy urban exploration, but there are too many wild dog packs and potential human confrontations, and just horribly crappy sidewalks, crossings and lighting. You always have to have your guard up.

NYC, even in its worst years, was always pedestrian and transit oriented, so I think the pedestrian realm, perhaps by default, was not quite as daunting. Most people walked, because that's how you get around. In Detroit, most have a car, and a pedestrian is kind of a sitting duck.

Well, if your point is that lack of transit detracts from Detroit's walkability then yes, I agree. But I've walked through some high crime areas of Detroit with relative ease back in the day. The difference now is that there just isn't as much to walk to anymore. Also, let's not forget that Detroit's crime rate today is actually lower now than when it was a more "walkable" place in the 70s and 80s.

**bailey** · October-12-12, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well, if your point is that lack of transit detracts from Detroit's walkability then yes, I agree. But I've walked through some high crime areas of Detroit with relative ease back in the day. The difference now is that there just isn't as much to walk to anymore. Also, let's not forget that Detroit's crime rate today is actually lower now than when it was a more "walkable" place in the 70s and 80s.

Let's not forget Detroit is half the size. The per capita violent crime rates are not that much different. besides they are way higher than anything that could be considered tolerable.

**Zacha341** · October-14-12, 06:26 AM

Yeah, try some of that 'walkability' on say Orleans and 7 mile, Chalfonte and Fenkell, or Gratiot near Connor... not a good idea.

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Non-yuppie Detroit is very, very difficult to traverse from a pedestrian's perspective, IMO. I have tried, as I enjoy urban exploration, but there are too many wild dog packs and potential human confrontations, and just horribly crappy sidewalks, crossings and lighting. You always have to have your guard up.