Anyone notice? It's feeling pretty old around here...

[gameguy56]

Second, Pittsburgh has benefitted from its school system's ability to avoid cratering when it comes to achievement. There are some very troubled schools, especially in poor neighborhoods, but there are still viable public school options for many middle class families. Also, a number of private school options remain in the city for the more well off families who have stayed. This school situation has greatly contributed to the stability of many Pittsburgh neighborhoods. The public school system is not nearly as large as DPS used to be and that has also helped it manage its current problems. But the Pittsburgh school system will not be immune from the tipping point phenomenon that other big city systems have experienced. If that tipping point is reached, and the system loses its current diversity, it will present a new challenge for Pittsburgh.

As example of corporate governance done the right way, we actually have a program where graduates of the city high schools get a 40k college scholarship. The idea is to incentivize people who have the ability to choose to live in the city or the suburbs to live in the city and send their kids to city schools, keeping the system functional.


Look who's funding it: http://pittsburghpromise.org/about_investors.php

Can you imagine GM/Ford/Chrysler funding something like that? For Detroit? There really is the idea here [[even in the corporate boardrooms) that a strong core city helps the whole region prosper. That idea seems to have totally been lost in metro Detroit.

[townonenorth]

As example of corporate governance done the right way, we actually have a program where graduates of the city high schools get a 40k college scholarship. The idea is to incentivize people who have the ability to choose to live in the city or the suburbs to live in the city and send their kids to city schools, keeping the system functional.


Look who's funding it: http://pittsburghpromise.org/about_investors.php

Can you imagine GM/Ford/Chrysler funding something like that? For Detroit? There really is the idea here [[even in the corporate boardrooms) that a strong core city helps the whole region prosper. That idea seems to have totally been lost in metro Detroit.

Trick in that program is that it requires you to sign up for student aid.

There are programs in Metro Detroit that are currently up and running. I haven't figured out why Detroit's not publicising theirs more.

[Mikeg]

I'm from Pittsburgh ....... 24, college educated and employed in a solid stable job.

.......our corporations were better corporate citizens than yours
..............It's such a shame that Oakland county is so wealthy but absolutely none of that money goes anywhere near Detroit.
..............guess that the biggest difference is probably that a lot of the middle aged people here have really fond memories of growing up in Pittsburgh, and they don't hate the city now. If their kids are still in the region then they probably live in the city now.
..............As example of corporate governance done the right way,

Ah, the wisdom of youth - good for you!

I don't suppose you have any data to back up those opinions? Also, you might want to do some checking before you start throwing around management jargon like "corporate governance".

[Gistok]

It's such a shame that Oakland county is so wealthy but absolutely none of that money goes anywhere near Detroit.

Where on earth did you get that misconception??

Both Oakland and Macomb Counties [[that county is largely blue/white collar, but there are many wealthy pockets along the Clinton River valley) spend a bundle of money in Detroit.

Besides the 3 Casino's, Detroit has the 2nd largest theatre district in the country. Pittsburgh has mainly the Benedum Center [[former Stanley Theatre movie palace) and Heinz Hall [[the former Loew's Penn Theatre), that handles most of the cultural and entertainment aspect.

But Detroit has several of the greatest theatre's in the country... the 5,174 seat Fox [[largest grossing theatre in North America) is the largest of all surviving 1920s movie palace and does major performer acts, with the 2,200 seat Fillmore/State next door to handle rock shows. The 4,404 seat Masonic Temple Theatre and 2,089 seat famous Fisher theatre do Broadway shows, with the 2,800 seat Detroit Opera House handling Opera, Ballet, and some Broadway shows that require a huge stage [[it has the 3rd largest in the country). The 1700 seat Music Hall also handles musical fares, and the 2,286 seat Orchestra Hall with it's $100 million expansion handles the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, which is already over a century old. And then we have the Century, Gem and City theatres to handle smaller shows, then there's the Bonstelle and Hillberry Theatres to do university drama, and the Detroit Institute of Arts Theatre to handle the weekly successful art films, and still waiting in the wings for potential restoration are the National and United Artists. All in all 25,000 seats in our theatre district. And for the folks that put on the "Movie Palace Tours" of these historic opulent venues... they can only be done in August, because the rest of the year the venues are too busy to be able to host tours.

Add to all those theatres... each of the 3 casinos also has a new 1,200 seat theatre, and the Garden Bowl Theatre will be coming online in another year or two....

Now guess who visits MANY of these venues... naturally city folks... but to many of the larger venues the visitors are mostly suburbanites, that come down continuously for shows, concerts, etc. And add on to that the superb restaurants and the Casinos, sports venues, and whatever convention is going on [[including North America's major auto show), the city is teeming with culture and nightlife [[but sadly on event nights mainly).

Add to that the daytime cultural things such as the museum district... the recently completed $180 million expansion of the Detroit Institute of Arts, one of the 6 largest in the country, the Henry Ford [[you'll need 2 days for that one), the Detroit Historical Museum, Dossin Great Lakes Museum, and old Fort Wayne.

Detroit may be an economic basket case, but we're certainly not a cultural one...

[illwill]

One word.

Sprawl.

[Whitehouse]

Logan's Run in reverse?

[illwill]

This sounds exactly like me!

[illwill]

That was my point. The statement was that "young" people are going to Chicago because IT'S CHICAGO [[said breathlessly and starry-eyed). My point was that Chicago wouldn't be such a draw if its economy resembled Detroit ...mass transit or not Chicago has a huge knowledge based economy. There are..what? 5 major and a host of minor colleges and universities in and immediately around Chicago? U of Chicago, DePaul, Lyola Northwestern, UofI Chicago...etc. Most of them with nationally ranked undergrad and Grad programs. Boston, Philly, NYC...etc have virtually the entire Ivy league system and some of the most hard to get into colleges and universities in the country winding their way in and through them. I mean Philly alone... a city often compared to Detroit ....has an Ivy and several other major universities in and immediately around it. Imagine what Detroit would look like if MSU, Eastern, Oakland and UM were located IN Detroit along with UofD and Wayne? heck, just imagine if UofD and Wayne had most of their student body live on campus instead of communting.

. Again you have a huge knowledge based economy in Pittsburgh as well.. Carnegie Mellon, Duquesne, Pitt....etc. not to be repetative but stick 150k worth of residential students, and 10 jobs per student [[no idea if that is the multiplier...but I'm betting not far off) and where would Detroit be?

Because they had a foundation under them. Detroit is a boom town that went bust. It doubled in size in 20 years based on the creation of one industry. It had nothing to fall back on and never did anything to diversify once the writing was on the wall. everyone just waited for the factories to open again. Because the "old" industry never really left. Banking,education, finance, shipping, meat packings...etc. The "old" may have been eclipsed for a time, but after the massive industrial wave crested and receded, you still had an educated class and knowledge economy to keep the place from turning into a ghost town.

I don't think this is a bad place to be "young". there is tons to do and you'd be hard pressed to live as well as cheaply in any other major city or metro region. I think the young are underrepresented because there are just fewer opportunities for entry level jobs. Eventually the baby boomers will retire and die out and the region will get back to an equilibrium. the boom years were the abnormality around here.... today is the best we can hope for...especially with 8 years of republican rule coming that will gut any sort of funding for education or quality of life issues.

I think it's safe to say that Michigan State andUniversity of Michigan are now considered regionally but "not soclose" universities supporting the knowledge base in Chicago

[canuck]

One word.

Sprawl.

Well yeah, I mean if you substituted the question that was posed about where Detroit would be if it had mo'better transit with "Where would Detroit be if metro's density were concentrated within the old city limits plus maybe 25 percent extraterritorial?"

Now of course we are looking at a humungous region which limits the potential for subterranean transit, but it is possible to implement urban rail. For the most part the size of suburbia dilutes the regional potency to a series of auto-reachable landmarks that for many people happen to be shopping malls. How can acreage hunger be restricted?

Isnt the state responsible for rebuilding the core city and connecting it to suburbia if the municipal powers-that-be do not step up to the plate? If Snyder can call in an EFM for Detroit, then he is probably enabled with this responsibility.

[gnome]

Yeah, right on !! Some of his best friends are oldsters, just ask him.

[Bham1982]

I think it's safe to say that Michigan State andUniversity of Michigan are now considered regionally but "not soclose" universities supporting the knowledge base in Chicago

Yes, of course they support other cities, but not nearly as much as they support the knowledge base in Detroit.

All major U.S. cities have broad draws. The second tier metros like Detroit have somewhat more local draws. But there's no debating that Michigan schools primarily benefit Michigan.

As I've stated on another thread, some individual schools have different profiles for recent grads. So, for example, NYC is the biggest draw for just graduated UofM law and business students. But, overall, there are far more UofM law and business grads in Michigan than anywhere else.

Obviously we want to a better job, though, and keep more grads in-state, so they don't run off to wherever nationally or internationally.

[iheartthed]

Yes, of course they support other cities, but not nearly as much as they support the knowledge base in Detroit.

All major U.S. cities have broad draws. The second tier metros like Detroit have somewhat more local draws. But there's no debating that Michigan schools primarily benefit Michigan.

As I've stated on another thread, some individual schools have different profiles for recent grads. So, for example, NYC is the biggest draw for just graduated UofM law and business students. But, overall, there are far more UofM law and business grads in Michigan than anywhere else.

Obviously we want to a better job, though, and keep more grads in-state, so they don't run off to wherever nationally or internationally.

What about according to year of graduation? I'd imagine that most of the U-M alumni that graduated in the past decade or so have left the state.

NYC has the largest Michigan alumni club, and I believe Chicago's is second.

[begingri]

What about according to year of graduation? I'd imagine that most of the U-M alumni that graduated in the past decade or so have left the state.

NYC has the largest Michigan alumni club, and I believe Chicago's is second.

"Other Michigan colleges are witnessing the same exodus. A first-of-its-kind survey of all 2007 Michigan public university graduates, conducted by Michigan Future, Inc., revealed that half of grads left the state within a year."

http://detnews.com/article/20090403/...#ixzz1gCCh6pjn

[BrushStart]

"Other Michigan colleges are witnessing the same exodus. A first-of-its-kind survey of all 2007 Michigan public university graduates, conducted by Michigan Future, Inc., revealed that half of grads left the state within a year."

http://detnews.com/article/20090403/...#ixzz1gCCh6pjn

Epic......

[illwill]

I heard about a year ago that Chicago had surpassed New York City now ranking the #1 city with the largest number of University of Michigan Grads. I always knew about MSU.

That's really too bad.

[iheartthed]

"Other Michigan colleges are witnessing the same exodus. A first-of-its-kind survey of all 2007 Michigan public university graduates, conducted by Michigan Future, Inc., revealed that half of grads left the state within a year."

http://detnews.com/article/20090403/...#ixzz1gCCh6pjn

Thanks. I remember this article.

Michigan-native grads of the University of Michigan are even more likely to leave -- 53 percent left in 2008, according to U-M.

And that's just Michigan natives! The University of Michigan also has a much higher out-of-state student population than any other school in the state. Nearly half of the students who attend aren't from the state of Michigan at all. I'd be surprised if more than 10% of them stuck around Michigan after graduation...

[iheartthed]

And here it is:

According to demographer Kurt Metzger, director of Data Driven Detroit, 25% of the state population was over age 50 back in 1990. Twenty years later, it is more than 34% -- and nearly 14% of the state is 65 or older. That's a lot of "institutional knowledge," sure, but with few exceptions, not a lot of invention, innovation, entrepreneurial energy or eagerness to embrace change. While that's natural with aging, it also means that Michigan, in short, is growing more of what's holding us back.

Who cares how many people are here? Who they are is what matters.

Among the 50 states, census data show Michigan ranks 42nd in births per 1,000 residents but 16th in deaths per thousand. So we're doing better at longevity than reproductivity, and thus turning into a place that's top heavy with older people.

And compounding the slow birthrate, "we're just not attracting any young people," said Metzger.

Well, why would we when the dominant hair color young people see around here is Grecian Formula?

"The kinds of things Michigan is doing, things like reforming the business tax, that's not going to attract young people," Metzger said. "Manufacturing, the auto industry, those things are not the things that will be getting young people to come here."

http://www.freep.com/article/2012010...xt|FRONTPAGE|p