March for Light Rail Demonstration. Let's Plan one from From DIA steps to City Hall

**dtowncitylover** · December-15-11, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

And it's attempt at providing light rail has failed.

They didn't attempt anything. Nothing failed, but some rich men, with their own feelings, decided something for us. Of course, we've been there before.

**JBMcB** · December-15-11, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

They didn't attempt anything. Nothing failed, but some rich men, with their own feelings, decided something for us. Of course, we've been there before.

Excuses and finger pointing. A popular reaction that accomplishes nothing.

Again, go out and get the money. If so many people really want this project to succeed, it shouldn't be a problem.

**Jason** · December-15-11, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

Excuses and finger pointing. A popular reaction that accomplishes nothing.

Again, go out and get the money. If so many people really want this project to succeed, it shouldn't be a problem.

You know that it's not possible for random individuals to scrounge together tens of millions of dollars every year. And even if it was possible, an organization would never even attempt to rely on that kind of funding. It's completely unrealistic and completely unreasonable.

He's giving "excuses and finger pointing"? Well you're just being a dick, so what's better?

**Detroitnerd** · December-15-11, 06:00 PM

Oh, yes. If you want to provide light-rail transit service, just gather your pennies and pay for it.

Whatever you do, don't do what people like L. Brooks Patterson do, which is bully everybody out of your way and demand that the public at large subsidize your new roads, new sewer lines, new water mains, all of which are expensive to sustain. He's able to get away with it because he uses the political system to accomplish the will of his developer cronies and political hacks.

No, whatever you do, do not try to influence the political system. That's the job of lobbyists, hack PR folks, flacks, media professionals and ward heelers. Remember, the political system is something you just pay for. So, whatever pennies you have leftover, use them in a futile battle against the very subsidies for airports, expressways, cars and buses that you are FORCED to pay for by aformentioned political system.

Great strategy, huh?

**JBMcB** · December-15-11, 06:23 PM

More excuses, finger pointing and name calling. More reasons why it can't be done. More reliance on the same system that's failed over and over again.

I don't see any other solutions proffered. I don't see anything more novel than whining and complaining. Go whine and complain to the same politicians who've failed before. Good luck with that.

**1953** · December-15-11, 06:24 PM

JBMcB...your attitude is quite poor...

**Detroitnerd** · December-15-11, 06:43 PM

I get it. Loud and clear.

When you do it, you are "troubleshooting" or "laying the blame squarely where it belongs."
When they do it, they are "finger pointing" or "playing the blame game"

When you do it, you are "seeking a redress of grievances" or "registering a serious complaint"
When they do it, they are "complaining" or "whining."

When you do it, you are "trying to work through the system" or "cooperating with stakeholders"
When they do it, they are "relying on the same system that has failed time and again."

When you do it, you are "seeking to define the problem before casting about for solutions."
When they do it, you "don't hear any solutions being offered."

Brilliant.

Yet I think Jason's post #28 makes his point much better, without the rhetorical sleight of hand.

**JBMcB** · December-15-11, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by 1953

JBMcB...your attitude is quite poor...

I know. It's just baffling to me that, as passionate as people are on this board about that project, the best you guys can come up with is a march. That's it? That's the most constructive way anyone can think of to help get the project back on track [[no pun intended) ?

**Detroitnerd** · December-15-11, 06:59 PM

Those who say it can't be done ...

... should get out of the way of those doing it.

**urbanhat** · December-15-11, 07:15 PM

We need a march. The public's voice has not been heard in this discussion. Count me in.

Next step is to lobby for establishment an RTA. The timing for this is right: the legislation will be up for a vote within months.

**Detroitnerd** · December-15-11, 07:20 PM

Wouldn't it also probably require a constitutional convention or amendment to allow regional revenue collection to run a serious transit system?

**Detroit Stylin** · December-15-11, 07:24 PM

Ok so once again as i stated in a previous post or couple of posts that have clearly been ignored, glanced over, or whatever. Instead of saying you are in to support a march or protest, then say you are in to PLAN one becuase saying it on here is not enough.

**stasu1213** · December-15-11, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

Then create an organization to run it. Everyone is waiting for someone else to do something. If people want to get it done - then go do it.

Marching will do nothing. Creating a non-profit, getting some muscle and capital behind it, will be a step in the right direction.

Karmanos, Penske, Gilbert, and others had tried using their private funds for a rail system that would had been up and running by now. Their train would had ran from downtown to the New Center area. They were railroaded by forces who had talked them into merging their project with a grander Regional project. I knew then that there was not going to be any regional transit and the four investors ideas and plans were going down the toilet with it. A roadblock would still be in place for any independently owned transit system. A good attorney should be called up to sue the state and city for the losses of the large amount of money that went into research, planning and promotions of the Woodward light rail. Follow the money. What entity or entities had profited from the trashing of the light rail? Will one of the big three subcompanies be given the contract to assemble the rapid busses? Will it be one of Snyder's or Bing's friends who will get the contract? I think that a train or trolley would had ran ontime for they don't have drivers who would call in sick, go on strike,or take vacations or sick. They may be a conductor on the train just to make such that things are running properly.

**JBMcB** · December-15-11, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Wouldn't it also probably require a constitutional convention or amendment to allow regional revenue collection to run a serious transit system?

I don't think so. Wouldn't be much different than the tri-county millage for the Zoo, would it?

**canuck** · December-15-11, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

I know. It's just baffling to me that, as passionate as people are on this board about that project, the best you guys can come up with is a march. That's it? That's the most constructive way anyone can think of to help get the project back on track [[no pun intended) ?

Well this is one way of getting attention to the need for good transit in Detroit. I dont think your non-profit makes much sense in the scheme of things. Would you propose the same for highways and the electric grid? Honestly, we are looking at major works for a city and metro the size of Detroit. If an agency managed by experts dedicated to the long term value of mass transit were in place, the problems of M1 rail would be ironed out. There seems to be a political resistance or a shadow lobby or just plain ignorance of how disastrous failures to execute these life giving works can be for the city.

I think even the People Mover will be seen as a lever for development in the CBD in the long run. Projects like the BookCadillac rehab, the casinos and the convention center benefit from this asset. It is a tourist draw, and an enabler for local users of a large downtown. I bet you Detroit's downtown developers like the Broderick folks and even Gilbert might have passed if the PM were not one of the CBD's assets. The city needs to keep the ball rolling on good, reliable infrastructure other than the roadways. It needs to start a new chapter on transit like it did in 1911. Keep the ball rolling. I think streetrail is the way to go. Good luck marching, I am with you in spirit!

**Detroitnerd** · December-15-11, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

I don't think so. Wouldn't be much different than the tri-county millage for the Zoo, would it?

Yes, it is different. The Michigan Constitution severely limits transportation funding options. It's very restrictive. About five years ago, some experts estimated we'd need a constitutional amendment to allow metro regions to authorize a 1/2-cent sales tax to fund and operate regional rapid transit.

**Detroitnerd** · December-15-11, 07:40 PM

I like the spirit, anyway. The politicians might be surprised that enough people care about the issue to march. I think they underestimate the people all the time, and when you string people along for years and then bail on them ...

**Jason** · December-15-11, 07:40 PM

I do think though, for a march, it would make more sense to do it in Oakland County.

Detroit and Wayne County WANT the light rail. The RTA seems to be what's holding it up, and the new plan seems to try to address that by having routes that service everywhere in the RTA instead of just Detroit.

**casscorridor** · December-15-11, 08:53 PM

Detroit News is reporting that the decision was Bing, Snyder and La Hood's alone. We should protest outside the City County building or in Lansing. Although maybe one outside of L Brooks Paterson's office in Pontiac makes sense, just to show that people THROUGHOUT metro Detroit want this, not just a few "hipsters" in Midtown.

**Russix** · December-15-11, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Jason

I do think though, for a march, it would make more sense to do it in Oakland County.

Detroit and Wayne County WANT the light rail. The RTA seems to be what's holding it up, and the new plan seems to try to address that by having routes that service everywhere in the RTA instead of just Detroit.

There can be more than one. Monday can be a pilot march. Can we ignore the tea party side banter of a person who would obviously go kicking and screaming if highways were funded by his suggested model of user fees and get back to planning a march?

Here's a basic how-to on planning a protest march: http://amazonwatch.org/assets/files/...nning-tips.pdf

as far as Social Media, we need to create a group and maybe a twitter account and start networking with other groups/individuals to organize this appropriately.

**Detroit Stylin** · December-15-11, 09:43 PM

Sooooooooooooooo once again before a group can really do anything they must at least to plan and discuss how to do it, unless this is just another 'pissed off at the moment' thing?

**j to the jeremy** · December-15-11, 09:52 PM

Originally Posted by JBMcB

I know. It's just baffling to me that, as passionate as people are on this board about that project, the best you guys can come up with is a march. That's it? That's the most constructive way anyone can think of to help get the project back on track [[no pun intended) ?

It's baffling to me that, as passionate as people on this board are about trolling, the best you can come up with is trolling an actual thread where concerned people are planning to physically do something to express their frustration with government besides sit in front of a computer all day. That's it? You can't go and talk shit to people who are planting community gardens or something?

**Zaiko** · December-15-11, 10:13 PM

Freep and News didn't talk to Snyder's transit guy.

WDET aired this report tonight at 630.

http://www.michigannow.org/2011/12/1...buses-vs-rail/

**Zaiko** · December-15-11, 10:16 PM

How about we use whatever we've got. If only 4 show up then that's better than none. Will we be fools? Not if we have a just cause and we believe in it.

Does anyone know how to make a facebook page for this?

**JBMcB** · December-15-11, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

It's baffling to me that, as passionate as people on this board are about trolling, the best you can come up with is trolling an actual thread where concerned people are planning to physically do something to express their frustration with government besides sit in front of a computer all day.

You're right. Assuming that the people of Detroit could get together and accomplish something more than complaining loudly is ludicrous. I guess it's just the best we can do these days.