June 1 - A Day of Infamy for Detroit

gravitymachine · June-01-09, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitDad

Toolbox, Detroit is one of, if not the main border crossing into Canada.

so? every other major boarder crossing in maine, vermont, new york, michigan, and along the land border westward to washington state have basic geographical relationships with their counterparts on the other side, and lets not forget those with mexico. detroit isn't special.

**Det_ard** · June-01-09, 08:49 PM

Every time I go to Costco I have to show my card. When I leave with my 50 lbs of rice and three cases of Sierra Nevada I have to show them my receipt. Each time I weep over the most recent Day of Infamy for Madison Heights.

**Roq** · June-01-09, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by gravitymachine

can someone please explain how getting a passport every ten years at a cost of about $10/year and carrying those 6 or so bound pieces of paper which are smaller than a checkbook with you to canada is such a gross inconvenience?

i got a passport years ago and it made crossing more convenient

I don't get the hysteria either. I mean, it's not like you could previously just breeze on into Canada without showing SOME I.D...so what if it's a passport instead of a driver's license, you still have to stop and show the customs agent something.

**Novine** · June-01-09, 10:27 PM

"I don't get the hysteria either. I mean, it's not like you could previously just breeze on into Canada without showing SOME I.D...so what if it's a passport instead of a driver's license, you still have to stop and show the customs agent something."

I remember the days when you didn't have to show any ID when crossing the border. The feds keep piling up the requirements to cross the border and has it made us any safer?

**Lowell** · June-01-09, 10:41 PM

Well I guess if one doesn't mind have their lives snooped into every time they go to another part of town, paying $100 for a passport and another $45 so you don't have to carry the bulky passport, don't mind waiting hours in idling cars for those in front of you who forgot theirs, don't mind the the millions lost to our economy in lost time and opportunities and don't mind spy drones flying overhead and border guards every few hundred yards along the river, this has to be a great day.

**MikeM** · June-01-09, 10:45 PM

You don't have to show an ID to a border crossing guard in Europe, but I sure would feel uncomfortable being in any other country without mine, Canada included. I certainly would carry it even if it weren't a requirement.

**jcole** · June-01-09, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Well I guess if one doesn't mind have their lives snooped into every time they go to another part of town, paying $100 for a passport and another $45 so you don't have to carry the bulky passport, don't mind waiting hours in idling cars for those in front of you who forgot theirs, don't mind the the millions lost to our economy in lost time and opportunities and don't mind spy drones flying overhead and border guards every few hundred yards along the river, this has to be a great day.

I don't think you need both the passport and the enhanced license. It's an either/or proposition. And I've been showing both a birth certificate AND a drivers license every time I went over for the last 5 years.

gravitymachine · June-01-09, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Well I guess if one doesn't mind have their lives snooped into every time they go to another part of town, paying $100 for a passport and another $45 so you don't have to carry the bulky passport, don't mind waiting hours in idling cars for those in front of you who forgot theirs, don't mind the the millions lost to our economy in lost time and opportunities and don't mind spy drones flying overhead and border guards every few hundred yards along the river, this has to be a great day.

since when is another sovereign nation, regardless of geographic proximity "another part of town"? its not called the same thing, not governed by the same people or processees and nor does it have the same flag flying above it. i'd wager that the brits and the french don't consider crossing the channel as being headed uptown/downtown

**Lowell** · June-01-09, 11:09 PM

Correct jcole, but you need one or the other. Your 'birth certificate AND a drivers license' will not get you in as of today. You will need either a passport or and enhanced driver's license. If your are someone, like me, who needs to travel outside North America, you need a passport. The enhanced license is a convenience and [if you have ever carried a bulky passport booklet that doesn't fit any pockets you will understand] almost a necessity for frequent users. So both will have to be bought for many of us.

**Lowell** · June-01-09, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by gravitymachine

i'd wager that the brits and the french don't consider crossing the channel as being headed uptown/downtown

I'm sure they didn't use the terms uptown/downtown, but if you check your history you will note our city was united under one flag on both sides of the river during their occupations.

For them it would have been like crossing from Manhattan to Brooklyn, no border guards, no drones.

lilpup · June-01-09, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by gravitymachine

can someone please explain how getting a passport every ten years at a cost of about $10/year and carrying those 6 or so bound pieces of paper which are smaller than a checkbook with you to canada is such a gross inconvenience?

i got a passport years ago and it made crossing more convenient

It depends upon who you are and how you use it. My sister-in-law's family holds an annual family reunion in Canada and my brother and nieces [[4 of them) used to go along, but now with the passport requirement and the fact that the kids' documents are shorter term my sister-in-law is cheesed about having to pay that much and they probably won't go anymore.

**Fnemecek** · June-01-09, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

Every time I go to Costco I have to show my card. When I leave with my 50 lbs of rice and three cases of Sierra Nevada I have to show them my receipt. Each time I weep over the most recent Day of Infamy for Madison Heights.

Is there no end to the madness?

**reddog289** · June-01-09, 11:43 PM

I agree with Lowell, This is a sad day. The MIGHTY GM Bankrupt and more restrictions crossing into Canada.I myself being the Oxymoron that I am.I will get the right stuff to cross the bridge when I need to and I hope that GM is around for quite awhile, as when I get the mortgage escrow deal settled I will get me a new car, GM or Ford. The term The Motor Cities wasn't just thought up for CKLW. As for the Wings IF you can't watch them in person on cable or otherwise. Get a radio, or just listen to the Wings vibe in the Motowns. Things are tough But this ain't no reason to throw in the towel.

Toolbox · June-02-09, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by lilpup

It depends upon who you are and how you use it. My sister-in-law's family holds an annual family reunion in Canada and my brother and nieces [[4 of them) used to go along, but now with the passport requirement and the fact that the kids' documents are shorter term my sister-in-law is cheesed about having to pay that much and they probably won't go anymore.

For driving into Canada, children under 16 only need a copy of their birth certificate.

http://www.travel.state.gov/travel/c...bpmc_2223.html

**Khartoum** · June-02-09, 07:22 AM

As a Canadian, I know a LOT of people who go over to Detroit periodically, spend $200 on clothes, $30 on dinner, then come back. A lot of these people, just don't care enough to go get a passport and simply won't cross anymore. No skin off their backs.

...and Lowell, I completely agree with your sentiment. I don't understand why they need to berate and be so rude to people when they cross. With myself, I'm coming to America to spend money - yet they treat me like a terrorist and are completely unwelcoming.

gravitymachine · June-02-09, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

I'm sure they didn't use the terms uptown/downtown, but if you check your history you will note our city was united under one flag on both sides of the river during their occupations.

For them it would have been like crossing from Manhattan to Brooklyn, no border guards, no drones.

and how long ago was that? a century or two?

**GREENTROIT** · June-02-09, 07:47 AM

I don't see the big deal about using a passport when crossing the border. Mine is kept permanently in my car's center console. I have secured parking, so theft isn't an issue, and when I drive to Windsor even unplanned, I always have it with me. It's not like you have to carry it on your person while walking around in Canada.

And the border agents are supposed to be firm when talking to you while you cross. It's their job. If they made everyone feel comfortable then they wouldn't be tipped on the subtle signals which they are trained to catch. I often go to Windsor to place sports bets, and when I come back they ask: "How long were you there?" I say 30-40 minutes, and I'm ALWAYS checked, at least my trunk is popped and scanned. It's a good thing. The same people bitching on this board of the uptight agents and new restrictions are the same ones who crusade for the "war on drugs" and wonder where the dope and ecstasy come from...

Haikoont · June-02-09, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by gravitymachine

since when is another sovereign nation, regardless of geographic proximity "another part of town"? its not called the same thing, not governed by the same people or processees and nor does it have the same flag flying above it. i'd wager that the brits and the french don't consider crossing the channel as being headed uptown/downtown

I think you're wrong about Windsor being another sovereign nation [[see 45-second mark):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xM4Gea6cjpg

**Sstashmoo** · June-02-09, 08:58 AM

Quote: "And the border agents are supposed to be firm when talking to you while you cross. It's their job. If they made everyone feel comfortable then they wouldn't be tipped on the subtle signals which they are trained to catch"

And we all just love being treated like a criminal. This is right out of the Nazi playbook. Our borders are wide F'ing open. All they are doing is harassing honest people, just like the airports. Our southern border is breached hundreds if not thousands of times per day. Stop treating people like shit around the world and we won't have potential terrorists. Which we don't have anyway. When was the last attack? We going to live like this forever?

**Bobl** · June-02-09, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Khartoum

As a Canadian, I know a LOT of people who go over to Detroit periodically, spend $200 on clothes, $30 on dinner, then come back. A lot of these people, just don't care enough to go get a passport and simply won't cross anymore. No skin off their backs.

...and Lowell, I completely agree with your sentiment. I don't understand why they need to berate and be so rude to people when they cross. With myself, I'm coming to America to spend money - yet they treat me like a terrorist and are completely unwelcoming.

Former frequent visitors to Canada for getaway weekends, we have seldom encountered the rudeness on the Canadian side. On returning home, we would get the rude behavior from U.S. agents often enough that we would expect it.
I suppose when our driver's licenses expire, we will purchase secure ones. In the meantime, priority one is to find employment so we can afford more trips. We will stay away until then.

LodgeDodger · June-02-09, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Well I guess if one doesn't mind have their lives snooped into every time they go to another part of town, paying $100 for a passport and another $45 so you don't have to carry the bulky passport, don't mind waiting hours in idling cars for those in front of you who forgot theirs, don't mind the the millions lost to our economy in lost time and opportunities and don't mind spy drones flying overhead and border guards every few hundred yards along the river, this has to be a great day.

I don't understand your indignation, Lowell. I would be willing to bet that it will be faster for those crossing the border using a passport. Personally, I think the enhanced driver's license idea is stupid. Everyone should have a passport. Cost-prohibitive? Maybe. But we've always looked at passports as a necessary piece of documentation.

A couple of years ago, our relatives from Germany accompanied us into Canada. All of us used our passports. Save for the extra second it took the guard to add the Canada stamp to my youngest cousin's passport for a "keepsake", we were through in a jiffy.

As far as privacy concerns, I'm far more worried about the trail we leave via our online computer travels and purchases than border crossings! Think about it, many today put practically all their business online--blogs, FaceBook, MySpace, banking, DetroitYes! entries, and anything else that might be used to glean our opinions and political leanings. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but online information is infinitely more telling than a border crossing.

Bulky passport? Yes, I'm a woman and I carry a purse, so I can't really complain too much. Betterhalf just stuffs his passport in the glovebox, and away we go!

Sweetie, just take a deep breath and you'll see everything will be just fine. Relax.

**7andkelly** · June-02-09, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

I have had a passport for decades and find it an absurd inconvenience to have to carry the clunky thing around just to go to another part of my town. Yeah, I'll spend another bunch of money for something that can fit in my wallet, but why should we have to?

This new barrier will probably spell doom for retaining the Red Bull races over the straits as many will defer going to Windsor. Bit by bit this ridiculous border issue is suffocating at our already suffering economies.

With the enhanced license, you can now leave your birth certificate at home, so that is one less document you need to carry.

Additionally, these measures will not only provide our border officials with another important security tool they have requested for their arsenal, it should noticeably speed up the process at the border which will be both econonomically and environmentally beneficial.

"Good fences make good neighbors". I see this as a positive.

**GREENTROIT** · June-02-09, 11:40 AM

First day of new U.S. border rules goes smoothly -- From USA Today:

No delays were reported at Detroit's two crossings with Ontario, Canada— the Ambassador Bridge and the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel — or at the Blue Water Bridge in Port Huron, Mich.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/...=DailyBriefing

**7andkelly** · June-02-09, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Well I guess if one doesn't mind have their lives snooped into every time they go to another part of town, paying $100 for a passport and another $45 so you don't have to carry the bulky passport, don't mind waiting hours in idling cars for those in front of you who forgot theirs, don't mind the the millions lost to our economy in lost time and opportunities and don't mind spy drones flying overhead and border guards every few hundred yards along the river, this has to be a great day.

Lowell, I share your concerns about privacy, but I'm pretty sure information gleaned from your recent previous border crossings have all been recorded into a database anyway to include your stated destinations, other interview responses, and pictures of your license plates. The new system just enhances identification, and speeds up data input and retrieveal.

And I must say, welcome aboard, sir! It's great to have a person of your notoriety publicly state their aversion to new taxes.

**wazootyman** · June-02-09, 11:54 AM

Mark me down as another person who doesn't get why this is a big deal.

Up until about a year ago when I finally got my passport, I always brought a birth certificate for proof of citizenship. I will probably go for an enchanced drivers license when I renew. The new requirement should probably make things less complicated.

Just because we're all so used to driving into Windsor just like we're going to Dearborn or Sterling Heights doesn't change the fact that it is in another country.

This is coming from someone who frequently gets detained at the border; my car has been searched multiple times. They have never found anything, nor did I have anything to hide. My name is probably flagged on a list [[joking), but it's never been a huge deal. A minor inconvienience, yes, but the border patrol has always been respectful and I do appreciate the job they're doing. Occasionally you get the guy that thinks he's the last line of defense between you and the end of the world, but that's a rare occurance.