Pot bust Chene and Mack

[Gannon]

It is tough to argue with true believers who refuse to take in any data that isn't sanctioned by whatever authorities they worship.

[Gannon]

Dave,

Step down off your soapbox and join in the conversation a bit.

ALL official government research that has been pubished supports their false premise that this natural herb is negative. When used in reasonable amounts, and even somewhat UNreasonable doses that some label 'abuse', the only true negative for the government is that each individual figures out quite clearly that most of the so-called authorities are full of bullshit.

This natural herb is the anti-oil...it is a better source for many things which are now synthesized from crude oil. It is a better renewable source for paper than trees. It is a great fiber for clothes. The seeds contain some amazing properties which prove that Mother Nature really cares for the humans in her system.

You are out-of-line here, and you are so clearly wrong it makes me sick to know that anyone like you still exists. You are wrong. The official government studies you want to wave about are ALL tainted and skewed to support an illegal, unethical, and immoral prohibition of a natural plant with some of the most positive renewable benefits for all of humankind. Period


Open up your mind a bit...when it is closed it can be a weapon.

Sincerely,
John

[Gannon]

A typical lazy answer. Is that the only way to bring change? Have you ever heard of putting a petition together to put the question to referendum? You only need a minority of signers to prove that there's significant public interest in legalizing it. What steps have you taken to show your congressman or other elected representative to show there's significant public interest in legalizing it or putting the question to referendum?

A typical establishment answer...like the one I got from that federal judge I had the joy to lunch with at Sala Thai five years or so ago. She asked me, after I inquired whether she thought the prohibition against marijuana would ever end, why I didn't become an activist against it. I told her that there was no way I'd go public to legitimately fight this bullshit law, because of the backlash from those who profit the most from it...those over zealous law enforcement types who still ruthlessly pursue those who dare take Mother Nature at her most obvious. She agreed with me, sadly. Her lunchmate almost had an aneurism when I admitted I was a regular user in front of the judge...it was a very precious moment for me.

I had neighbors who were Sheriff deputies, and they knew I smoked regularly. One brought home a date when I was out on my patio one night...and she very clearly wanted him to at least talk with me, if not bust me. I could hear him say to her, he's one of the good ones.


Marijuana...hemp...cannabis...is nothing evil. It is a natural plant...with so many beneficial uses it is simply twisted and sick that the corporate capitalist system has been able to keep it prohibited from free use for so many generations. THAT is where the evil lies...in anything associated with the oil business...if you need to find a culprit in all of this. Because is surely isn't Mother Nature and/or the Maker.


Cheers!

[Ravine]

I've seen plenty of witless threads in DY, but this one is the most entirely pointless one I've seen in a long time. All I'm seeing is folks stating & re-stating that which they already believed to be true and then bluntly rejecting any opposing opinion as being Just Plain Wrong.
There are plenty of soapboxes here, and every one of them has a foot, attached to a closed mind, stomping on it.
This thread has no discussion it it. It's nothing more than a wall on which everyone is spraying their graffiti.

[Steve bennet]

Are you high right now?! Please tell me something dumber. "Clinicians agree that cannabis use can cause acute adverse mental effects that mimic psychiatric disorders, such as schizophrenia and bipolar disorder." [[from article below).

When it causes users to mimic a psychiatric disorder, this causes people to act out psychopathic behaviour.

You can read the full article here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2811144/

Read the last few sentences:

"As our case report demonstrates, there are individuals who are otherwise healthy, with no genetic predisposition, who can be diagnosed with a psychiatric illness purely with cannabis abuse. This goes along with the first hypothesis that cannabis use causes psychotic symptoms in an otherwise healthy individual, which would not have occurred with abstinence. "

Yeah, try sourcing something other than our government. I'm not reading that garbage.

And I do believe you are playing Devil' Advocate and trying to bait us for fun. This crap is too ridiculous to take seriously.

[Django]

[QUOTE=And I do believe you are playing Devil' Advocate and trying to bait us for fun. This crap is too ridiculous to take seriously.[/QUOTE]

Exactamundo.

Anyway, I rode by again yesterday and they were still haulin stuff out, still had
a dozed cop and city vehicles there as well as a semi being loaded. What a waste of manpower. I was peeking into the open gate when a hulking narcotics officer said something to me but I couldnt make out what it was. I wanted to ask him but I was ridin dirty. I stashed my stuff and went back but he ws gone. I really wanted to have a conversation with him.

[CassTechGrad]

Lighten up guys, your too serious. Lets have a littlefun. Copy the picture and add your own caption.

[brandon48202]

These people apparenty were growing about $13,000,000 in marjuana when they got busted. Imagine if they wouldn't have been so greedy and operated at a smaller scale- they never would have been busted.

[davewindsor]

Yeah, try sourcing something other than our government. I'm not reading that garbage.

And I do believe you are playing Devil' Advocate and trying to bait us for fun. This crap is too ridiculous to take seriously.

You're just like the subject of the case study in the article ignoring reality. If we presented our arguments to the Supreme Court, you just lost the argument.

I presented an article written by an expert in clinical psychiatry with an MD and work experience with psychiatric patients who gave a qualified opinion backed by a case study and numerous citations from other studies written by experts in the field that backs up his expert opinion.

How do you respond? With useless garbage.

It's not crap. It's the real world. There's nothing ridiculous about what these psychiatric experts say. No one can take what you say seriously because you're not even a psychiatric expert qualified to give an opinion on the subject. So, just keep putting your head in the sand and continue to live a completely ignorant life.

[Django]

Or just maybe dave, your boy MD was bought and paid for. Duh.

[davewindsor]

A typical establishment answer...like the one I got from that federal judge I had the joy to lunch with at Sala Thai five years or so ago. She asked me, after I inquired whether she thought the prohibition against marijuana would ever end, why I didn't become an activist against it. I told her that there was no way I'd go public to legitimately fight this bullshit law, because of the backlash from those who profit the most from it...those over zealous law enforcement types who still ruthlessly pursue those who dare take Mother Nature at her most obvious. She agreed with me, sadly. Her lunchmate almost had an aneurism when I admitted I was a regular user in front of the judge...it was a very precious moment for me.

I had neighbors who were Sheriff deputies, and they knew I smoked regularly. One brought home a date when I was out on my patio one night...and she very clearly wanted him to at least talk with me, if not bust me. I could hear him say to her, he's one of the good ones.


Marijuana...hemp...cannabis...is nothing evil. It is a natural plant...with so many beneficial uses it is simply twisted and sick that the corporate capitalist system has been able to keep it prohibited from free use for so many generations. THAT is where the evil lies...in anything associated with the oil business...if you need to find a culprit in all of this. Because is surely isn't Mother Nature and/or the Maker.


Cheers!

Wow, what a terrible excuse for laziness. So, on the one hand, you'll admit to a judge that you're a regular user and also smoke pot in front of Sheriff's deputies, but, on the other hand, you don't want to go public to fight this law legitimately because you don't want law enforcement to find out who you are? That's the laziness answer I've heard yet. All that pot has created irrational paranoia. Why would law enforcement come after you for circulating a petition? This is not Nazi Germany. This is a democratic country. You're not breaking the law by circulating a petition for a referendum. This is how change in the system works. Alcohol was also illegal once. It's not anymore because enough people took up the fight to bring change. Yet, you offer no good reason not to identify yourself so you can take up the fight on a political level.

[davewindsor]

Or just maybe dave, your boy MD was bought and paid for. Duh.

Ya sure, I think the pot's been messing with your head again.

[Django]

dave, I rarely ever smoke. The drug war just happens to be my soapbox. For every government study you show saying its harmful to the degree that it should be outlawed I can produce 10 saying its safe for patients of a number of issues. Im not going to google it for you, you can do that yourself.

Lookit you, sucking me right back ito your rediculous argument. I guess its just fun beating up on you and your silliness. Thanks for the good times.

[Steve bennet]

You're just like the subject of the case study in the article ignoring reality. If we presented our arguments to the Supreme Court, you just lost the argument.

I presented an article written by an expert in clinical psychiatry with an MD and work experience with psychiatric patients who gave a qualified opinion backed by a case study and numerous citations from other studies written by experts in the field that backs up his expert opinion.

How do you respond? With useless garbage.

It's not crap. It's the real world. There's nothing ridiculous about what these psychiatric experts say. No one can take what you say seriously because you're not even a psychiatric expert qualified to give an opinion on the subject. So, just keep putting your head in the sand and continue to live a completely ignorant life.

Nothing in the article says smoking marijuana causes psychiatric problems. It might enhance pre-existing conditions, but that's about as far as it goes.

[Gannon]

Wow, what a terrible excuse for laziness. So, on the one hand, you'll admit to a judge that you're a regular user and also smoke pot in front of Sheriff's deputies, but, on the other hand, you don't want to go public to fight this law legitimately because you don't want law enforcement to find out who you are? That's the laziness answer I've heard yet. All that pot has created irrational paranoia. Why would law enforcement come after you for circulating a petition? This is not Nazi Germany. This is a democratic country. You're not breaking the law by circulating a petition for a referendum. This is how change in the system works. Alcohol was also illegal once. It's not anymore because enough people took up the fight to bring change. Yet, you offer no good reason not to identify yourself so you can take up the fight on a political level.

Laziness...it is so easy to throw about terms from behind the safety of your keyboard. I have been very busy in the formats I believe have true effectiveness, educating people one at a time and steadfastly standing up againt blatant idiocy, like you are so finely exhibiting here.



Let's see...Dave in Windsor...you have some degree of anonymity. I post under my last name, and often sign off with my first. I am a very public figure around town, and never, ever back down from a challenge. When confronting those within law enforcement, whether instigated by them when they're on duty or casually be me when we happen to cross paths off duty...or whenever the Universe chances other great instances, like meeting the young and upcoming prosecutor at the Park Bar one night...I always take the time to state the whole case, correcting the twisted taint of the 'official' myth. It is a myth, and a poor one at that.


I've made more converts in the past six years, simply by one-on-one evangelism for this cause. If I added my name to any list...you can bet your bottom dollar that I would be as watched and harassed as those like John Sinclair and Ed Rosenthal. In NO way am I equating my ability or experience with theirs, but it doesn't take a genius to learn from their troubles. I'm really not willing to spend ONE night in jail for something I know deep in my heart is benign at least, and necessarily beneficial at best.


My one 'bust' was from an inventory search in Wyoming, as my car was being impounded for speeding. The judge had already gone home for the night, so I was held until the morning arraignment. Cop found some medicine in my trunk.

The next day, I plead no contest to both charges. The prosecutor wanted 90 days and $1,000 for the speeding, and three years and another $1,000 for the cannabis. Judge asked me why I plead no contest, the prosecutor tried to object and keep my comments off the record. I said plainly that on the open road, especially out west, I didn't think there was any basis for a law restricting how fast I wanted to ride my 'horse' when no other traffic was around for many miles...and that there also was no basis for any law restricting the possession and use of a ubiqitous herb that grew on every continent on the planet.

The judge gave me a sentence of time served and $200 for the speeding, and time served and $200 for the possession. The prosecutor lost her mind, and came quite unsettled in court. I calmly said I would still be staying because I didn't have that money on me...and he let me go on my own recognizance. I paid the fines the moment I got home. It cost me a few dollars, but true justice prevailed. In many other states, I would've had a five year minimum sentence, and jokers like you would say that was just.


It is not. None of this should be prohibited in any way. The laws are unethical and immoral.


Go ahead, fire your next salvo from the safety of your keyboard anonymity...I'll go on living my life as I see fit. It has worked for me so far...


Cheers,
John

[Gannon]

Nothing in the article says smoking marijuana causes psychiatric problems. It might enhance pre-existing conditions, but that's about as far as it goes.

Careful where you step, Steve, you might be causing him to perhaps think logically about this instead of hiding behind his emotional reactions.

[Steve bennet]

I'm thinking logically Dave had a bad experience with pot. I'm curious to know how he reacted when he smoked it? I hope he is willing to share.

[downtownguy]

This article, from the AP, ran in today's Detroit News. From the sound of this article, some prosecutors are not too keen on the Michigan State of Appeals Court decision this week to shut down dispensaries. When the medical marijuana act was passed by voters, I thought it was just a matter of time before pot was decriminalized altogether. The bust this week was a big waste of resources and flies in the face of the prevailing winds of what society wants.

No rush to shut down medical pot shops in Mich.

BURTON, Mich. [[AP) -- It has been business as usual at some medical marijuana shops, even after the Michigan appeals court said card-carrying patients can't sell pot to other patients.

Some officials are in no rush to shut down dispensaries without a thorough investigation. In northern Michigan, the Otsego County prosecutor said he hopes the Michigan Supreme Court overturns the appeals court's decision.

In Burton, near Flint, a dispensary called The Barn closed briefly Wednesday but reopened Thursday, a day after the appeals court said patient-to-patient sales of marijuana are illegal.

"I don't have investigators who can go out and inspect what are called the dispensaries and see if they are in violation," Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton told The Flint Journal. "The only way I would be able to review any case ... is if any communities investigate it and bring me evidence that a dispensary is in violation."

Michigan voters in 2008 approved the use of marijuana to relieve pain and other chronic ailments. About 100,000 people have state-issued cards allowing them to have 2.5 ounces of "usable" pot and up to 12 plants. Registered caregivers also can grow marijuana for five people.

Some caregivers and people with medical marijuana cards have been selling extra marijuana to others who don't grow their own. It typically changes hands at dispensaries, with the owner taking a cut of the money. The appeals court, however, declared those sales illegal and said a Mount Pleasant dispensary could immediately be shut down as a "public nuisance."

Michigan Attorney General Bill Schuette, who was thrilled with the decision, was speaking to prosecutors about it this weekend.

Burton Mayor Paula Zelenko said her city won't shut down four dispensaries but new ones won't be allowed to open. Flint's city attorney, Peter Bade, said he's taking his time with the issue.

"Do we currently have plans to start shutting dispensaries down? No. But we will look over the ruling to see if it causes us to take action," Bade said.

HydroWorld Marijuana Services in Jackson has stayed open.

"I'm not really worried about it. If the authorities come and tell us to shut down, we'll shut down," owner Danny Trevino told WLNS-TV.

In Battle Creek, Calhoun County Prosecutor Susan Mladenoff said she would discuss the issue with law enforcement agencies. Otsego County Prosecutor Kyle Legel said he hopes the Supreme Court "applies reason and logic" and reverses the appeals court. But he also warned local dispensaries and marijuana "collectives" that he must follow the law.

"I am sure it will be frustrating to not provide a needed service as those that relied on your business scramble to find a means to obtain the medical marijuana they need," Legel said. "But my recommendation is that you do not subject yourself to the possible penalties."

[Django]

Good call steve. I wanna hear that story too.

[Autoracks]

at first i thought meh. Waste of time. So whats the big deal? Then I read about the bust and while the growers are now in a world of trouble. Very ambitious. But what really sort of stuck out to me was how perfect a set up that place was. 7K square feet but the building isnt that big. A box really, 3 floors 2Ksomething square feet per floor. All enclosed in fences with cortina wire up on top with a large wooded area in the back. What makes it perfect tho... Chene at Mack is almost, dare i say it.... rural. There isnt much down there and quite a bit of what is left standing is empty. That area down there has the population density of uh... the middle of nowhere.
Probably pretty safe too. Not too many people around to shake you down. Now the spot is burned. Ive no intention of being a drug dealer, I have better plans but really... thats a parcel that may be up for auction soon. It was purchased in 96 for 1K. Insane. The top floor has windows and you would make it into a fresh loft i expect. Drive right inside. Turn the first floor into a big ass garage plus storage. Who knos about the second floor but it could be finished out to a second loft. Bottom floor could be a shared garage for that matter. a couple thousand square feet. Im not in a position and plus i dont really expect to live here in a couple years but HEADS UP.
I suppose the first thing to consider is the incinerator. If its too close well.... its a bad neighbor.

Was a 20 million dollar operation. Highly portable commodity of high value for its weight and size it takes up. Lots of people enjoy. The primary way it ruins lives is the police. Those that don't participate mostly don't care about it and those who do care... well...

[Gannon]

Thought they shut that beast down?!

[Django]

The main floor is already a garage, with elevator. The second floor was storage, the third was made into a loft type space. Hydronic heating was installed, a bathroom kitchen and bedroom, the rest was wide open. I remember windows on that floor though, Im actually sure there were windows. Top floor was a shop, wood shop mostly as I remember.

When you pulled up to the place you opened the fence with an opener, same with the garage door. The privacy fencing was installed on top of the cyclone fencing after Tatarian sold it.

Tatarian is a straight up Detroit businessman. He wouldnt risk his ass to grow some weed even if it was in the millions. I dont know the legal situation as I dont know what a quick claim deed is as well as the other legal mumbo jumbo.

Again, what a waste of time and resources..

Like I said, it was my Barbie Dream House.

Im just curious what the outcome is going to be as far as any jail time for any of the three arrested. Im doubting there will be any. If they went to that much trouble to invest, probably at least a few hundred thousand they probably had enough sense to make sure whoever is doing the growing is not on the lease or whatever.

"buffers, yeah, the family had a lot of buffers".

The city is just going to make a few bucks re selling the equipment. Each light costs around $400

[davewindsor]

Nothing in the article says smoking marijuana causes psychiatric problems. It might enhance pre-existing conditions, but that's about as far as it goes.

You obviously have reading comprehension problems. I don't know if it's from being high all the time or what? Read post #74 ten times and then read the article again.

[davewindsor]

Laziness...it is so easy to throw about terms from behind the safety of your keyboard. I have been very busy in the formats I believe have true effectiveness, educating people one at a time and steadfastly standing up againt blatant idiocy, like you are so finely exhibiting here.



I am a very public figure around town, and never, ever back down from a challenge. When confronting those within law enforcement, whether instigated by them when they're on duty or casually be me when we happen to cross paths off duty.

If you're a very public figure, then challenge it on a public level. It's not like you're part of the Russian Mafia smuggling plutonium. A lot politicians did pot. Clinton did pot. Bush did pot. I think you're just making your identity known as a crusader appear worse than it really is. Start your petition and challenge the law, smart guy. I doubt anyone will stop you. Apparently, not even the sheriff's deputies, judges and prosecutors care. So, why would they stop you?

If you are that passionate about it, challenge it with a petition. Quit making excuses. Standing on the sidelines talking to a few dozen people isn't gonna bring change and you know it. And, that's not what makes heroes. Getting half a million people to sign a petition. That's gonna bring results. Be a hero. Take up the fight. You're not accomplishing anything by arguing and name calling on here. But, oooo, that's too much work for something who claims to be so passionate about legalization.

Unless of course, you're just here to make money off keeping it illegal [[because keeping it illegal means you will continue to be someone's overpriced defense lawyer when they are caught with pot) like you accuse everyone else is making money off it to keep it illegal, which makes you a hypocrite. Why legalize it? You'd be out of work. Better to give the appearance that you care to build up your law practice instead of taking it on a broader scale to get it legalized.

[davewindsor]

dave, I rarely ever smoke. The drug war just happens to be my soapbox. For every government study you show saying its harmful to the degree that it should be outlawed I can produce 10 saying its safe for patients of a number of issues. Im not going to google it for you, you can do that yourself.

Lookit you, sucking me right back ito your rediculous argument. I guess its just fun beating up on you and your silliness. Thanks for the good times.

Why should I google your points? I only need to google and provide citations to prove my point and I've proven my point about the problems associated with it, which was a response to a tangent by someone who was completely ignorant and all this started over you saying this bust was a waste of public resources, which it wasn't. There's plenty of evidence to show it wasn't a waste of public resources. Good job DPD for cleaning up the city.