Detroit Prayer Walk draws thousands downtown

**SWMAP** · April-18-11, 01:20 PM

"some came to your door weekly to preach the benefits of not being religious? "

I am sure you know that the Witnesses are a cult. Real religion is patient, kind, and does not, for instance, endorse shunning as the Witnesses do.

**jt1** · April-18-11, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

"some came to your door weekly to preach the benefits of not being religious? "

I am sure you know that the Witnesses are a cult. Real religion is patient, kind, and does not, for instance, endorse shunning as the Witnesses do.

Obviously you've never dealt with Campus Crusade for Christ on college campuses. There is no way to say that any organization with the number of members that it is patient, kind and does not endorse shunning [[which to me is no different requiring conversion for some groups, such as gays and lesbians). Obviously you don't get the amount of door drops that I get for the local churches [[both shady storefront and major churhces). The major religions have a number of zealots but the masses don't do anything to shut them up [[or does that logic only get applied to muslims?)

**SWMAP** · April-18-11, 01:44 PM

I always just say that I am a practising Catholic and they tend to fade away.

**Detroitnerd** · April-18-11, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

I always just say that I am a practising Catholic and they tend to fade away.

Still practicing? When do you get to do it for real?

ferntruth · April-18-11, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by belleislerunner

The topic of religion, whether it be Christian, Jewish or Muslim, always seems to bring out one overriding inconsitency in the application of its logic.

We say - It's wrong to stereotype/profile and say all black people are X because of the one black person we've encountered.

We say - It's wrong to stereotype/profile and say all single mothers with four kids are X because of the one we've encountered.

We say - It's wrong to stereotype/profile and say all white people are X because of the behavior of one we've encountered.

But yet it is okay to dismiss an entire religion because of the behaviors of a few people we've encountered.

From a logical perspective - how do you explain that inconsistency?

Not inconsistent to me at all. EVERY evangelical xian I have ever met [[including family members) loves to try and "sell" you on their particular brand of religion. Never mind the fact that I am perfectly happy as a Jew. Never mind the fact that no one asked them to preach and constantly bombard everyone with thier "Jesus this and Jesus that crap".

I am not a Xian. Xians do not respect my religion or my choices. Therefore, they can all go burn in their hell for all I care. Jews do not endorse conversion [[although there is a procedure for conversion for those who are come to us with a true desire to convert), Xianity DEMANDS it. Thats the problem.

So when Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door peddling their faith - its always fun to see if they can run faster than my dogs. Funny, but after a few times, they stopped coming to my house. If the rest of Xians would do the same, we would have no problem - but thats not likely to happen is it?

**Detroitnerd** · April-18-11, 01:57 PM

I don't think I can say it any better than Carlin did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BZ7Y4cifQQ

**SWMAP** · April-18-11, 02:03 PM

Still practicing?

Good catch. I do like the word "practice" though.

**Detroitnerd** · April-18-11, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Still practicing?

Good catch. I do like the word "practice" though.

I also want to make the same joke about "observant" Jews.

**Lt. Dan Bassett** · April-18-11, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

"some came to your door weekly to preach the benefits of not being religious? "

I am sure you know that the Witnesses are a cult. Real religion is patient, kind, and does not, for instance, endorse shunning as the Witnesses do.

not sure why I love the sh*t storm that is developing here, but this could evolve into some great conversation.
Actually, many someones come to your door every minute preaching the benefits of not being religious.
It's called American advertising and it baptized you and me as consumers of all manner of distraction.

[[Actually, religiousity is often very bogus)

Having had my nose rubbed in tragedy was a wake-up call for me. Crazy/blessed with vision beyond my understanding because of loss has caused me to reassess my view of this life and its purpose. Fact is, I can't tell you sh*t about God. I can only try to live it making choices in line with the teachings of this guy you call jumpin' Jesus.
The dude jumped the gap between here and there. Believe it, or not.

**Danny** · April-18-11, 02:56 PM

Let us pray for Detroit. It's need to be free from corruption.

**SWMAP** · April-18-11, 03:06 PM

On the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses: i have heard that they are obsessive to get anyone who has ever quit back in the fold.

I have an evil neighbor lady next door. Really a blight on my life for the past decade. She could write a doctoral thesis on how to be an evil neighbor. Nothing has escaped her.

I have often been tempted to tell the Witnesses who come to my door that I am a "practising Catholic,but that she is a fallen-away witness who has expressed a little interest in getting back in. Nothing could be farther from the truth, but I think they would put her on some kind of terrible list and bother her night and day!

It's hard to stop myself.

**maxx** · April-18-11, 05:00 PM

While many people generally group themselves as, "Christian", many do not know the first or last books of the Bible or could name all of Jesus' disciples

Becuase that's what's really important in being a christian. Don't forget, there will be a quiz at the moment of your death and if you forget the name of Thaddeus, you're going straight to hell, you pagan!

**Detroitej72** · April-18-11, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Millions have died in the names of various gods. How many have died for atheism?

Ask the victims of Ghangas Khan, Stalin, and Pol Pot just to name a few.

**13074Glenfield** · April-18-11, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Actually, I was laughing. Evangelicals, for all the awful memes they spread, are amusing, at least. Anyway, if I want to sneer at religion, why not? Millions have died in the names of various gods. How many have died for atheism?

How many? Close to 100 million in the 20th century alone. Mao killed 50-75 million, Stalin another 25 million. Killed in the name of atheistic communism. How many were killed by, say the Spanish Inquisition? Maybe 100,000. The Crusades? Probably 10,000. Yes, because of the communists, avowed atheists bent on stamping out religion, more people have been killed in the name of atheism in the last century than were killed in the name of religion in all of time. http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

DetroitPole · April-19-11, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by 13074Glenfield

How many? Close to 100 million in the 20th century alone. Mao killed 50-75 million, Stalin another 25 million. Killed in the name of atheistic communism. How many were killed by, say the Spanish Inquisition? Maybe 100,000. The Crusades? Probably 10,000. Yes, because of the communists, avowed atheists bent on stamping out religion, more people have been killed in the name of atheism in the last century than were killed in the name of religion in all of time. http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

"Probably 10,000"? Now you're making shit up. http://necrometrics.com/pre1700a.htm
You sure have a cavalier attitude towards war and death for a "Christian."

What kind of ridiculous pissing contest is this? So if "atheism" had killed 10,000,000 and "insert-religion-here" killed 9,999,999 it would be better?

This is infantile minamalizing of history. People throughout history have been motivated to kill and shrouded it in inumerable ideologies.

"Yes, because of the communists, avowed atheists bent on stamping out religion, more people have been killed in the name of atheism in the last century than were killed in the name of religion in all of time. Yes, because of the communists, avowed atheists bent on stamping out religion, more people have been killed in the name of atheism in the last century than were killed in the name of religion in all of time."

This is not true, if only because atheism in the Western sense is a relatively new concept. Prior to the 18th century, nearly everyone in Europe suscribed to a religion, thus by the sheer amount of time in human civilization, people were being killed by religious people.

Also, I'm not sure how one aims to clearly define "killing in the name of religion" or "killing in the name of atheism." If I died in a famine in Ukraine under Stalin or died under a famine under, say, His Most Christian Majesty Louis XIV, neither of those rulers are really killing me out of religion or non-religion.

Of course, when you try to reduce history into black and white numbers, you're not going to get anything of value out of it.

If you want an ideology with a low body-count, maybe Scientology? I don't think they've killed anybody yet.

**Detroitnerd** · April-19-11, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Ask the victims of Ghangas Khan, Stalin, and Pol Pot just to name a few.

Nice try at misrepresenting who atheists are. Trying to compare them to ... barbarians and autocrats?

Millions upon millions dead in the name of religion since the beginning of time -- and you point to atheists and call them barbarians? You need to get your nose out of the Bibble and into some history books.

**Detroitnerd** · April-19-11, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by 13074Glenfield

How many? Close to 100 million in the 20th century alone. Mao killed 50-75 million, Stalin another 25 million. Killed in the name of atheistic communism. How many were killed by, say the Spanish Inquisition? Maybe 100,000. The Crusades? Probably 10,000. Yes, because of the communists, avowed atheists bent on stamping out religion, more people have been killed in the name of atheism in the last century than were killed in the name of religion in all of time. http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

False equivalency may make you feel better, but it's feeble reasoning. Ah, yes, the poor little Christians being killed the world over. Hahaha. Whatever ...

**MizMotown** · April-19-11, 10:42 AM

True prayers doesn't ask for anything, it says, "hello Father, here I am." Help me to become more like you so I may fulfill the function of being here...

The only explanation to why we are here that agrees with me...

in the beginning there was no world. We were with God in a timeless Heaven. Then, however, we chose separation. As a result, we acquired the "space-time belief," and this belief is actually all the world is. There is no real, physical world. Given that "only eternity is real," there cannot be a real domain of time. Rather, there is only an "illusion of time." We, however, are meant to use this illusion constructively, for the sake of our learning, and when our learning is complete, the space-time belief will be at last undone. We will return to the awareness of our unity with God, and the illusory world will be gone. Time "will cease" [[T-1.I.15:4) and space will disappear.
So far, this sounds like the rest of the Course. However, there is another aspect to this vision. These passages also say that "God created time," not out of the blue, but specifically as a response to the separation, so that it could ultimately be undone. They say the world was designed as "a teaching aid" [[T-1.I.15:3), a "device" for healing the separation, a classroom for our learning [[T-2.II.5:3):

God created time so that man could use it creatively, and convince himself of his own ability to create. Time is a teaching aid, and a means to an end. It will cease when it is no longer useful in facilitating learning. [[original version of T-1.I.15:2-4)

The active ingredient in this classroom is the Atonement, which, as we saw, was actually built into the fabric of the classroom. The Atonement, this material explains, is a defense that can only be used constructively. When we call upon it, it wipes away what stands between us and God. It frees us from our errors and restores us to our unity with God. It is because the Atonement is built into the classroom of the world that this classroom is guaranteed to work: "The world was a way of healing the separation, and the Atonement is the guarantee that the device will ultimately do so" [[see T-2.III.5:12-13)

**MizMotown** · April-19-11, 11:09 AM

TRUE PRAYER

Prayer is a way offered by the Holy Spirit to reach God. It is not merely a question or an entreaty. It cannot succeed until you realize that it asks for nothing. How else could it serve its purpose? It is impossible to pray for idols and hope to reach God. True prayer must avoid the pitfall of asking to entreat. Ask, rather, to receive what is already given; to accept what is already there.

The secret of true prayer is to forget the things you think you need. To ask for the specific is much the same as to look on sin and then forgive it. Also in the same way, in prayer you overlook your specific needs as you see them, and let them go into God's Hands. There they become your gifts to Him, for they tell Him that you would have no gods before Him; no Love but His. What could His answer be but your remembrance of Him? Can this be traded for a bit of trifling advice about a problem of an instant's duration? God answers only for eternity. But still all little answers are contained in this.

5. Prayer is a stepping aside; a letting go, a quiet time of listening and loving. It should not be confused with supplication of any kind, because it is a way of remembering your holiness. Why should holiness entreat, being fully entitled to everything Love has to offer? And it is to Love you go in prayer. Prayer is an offering; a giving up of yourself to be at one with Love. There is nothing to ask because there is nothing left to want. That nothingness becomes the altar of God. It disappears in Him.
6. This is not a level of prayer that everyone can attain as yet. Those who have not reached it still need your help in prayer because their asking is not yet based upon acceptance. Help in prayer does not mean that another mediates between you and God. But it does mean that another stands beside you and helps to raise you up to Him. One who has realized the goodness of God prays without fear. And one who prays without fear cannot but reach Him. He can therefore also reach His Son, wherever he may be and whatever form he may seem to take.
7. Praying to Christ in anyone is true prayer because it is a gift of thanks to His Father. To ask that Christ be but Himself is not an entreaty. It is a song of thanksgiving for what you are. Herein lies the power of prayer. It asks nothing and receives everything. This prayer can be shared because it receives for everyone. To pray with one who knows that this is true is to be answered. Perhaps the specific form of resolution for a specific problem will occur to either of you; it does not matter which. Perhaps it will reach both, if you are genuinely attuned to one another. It will come because you have realized that Christ is in both of you. That is its only truth.

The world has two makers. Its starting point was our choice to believe in separation. We then shaped this general belief into a more specific belief in space [[separate places) and time [[separate moments). And then out of this space-time belief, we dreamt a vast and detailed space-time world. This is why the world is such a painful place, because it is the outward picture of the painful idea of separation. As Lesson 138 says, we made it to demonstrate that hell is real.

The Course's main view of the events of our lives is that they are the result of God's plan. Here are a few of the many references to that idea:

What could you not accept, if you but knew that everything that happens, all events, past, present and to come, are gently planned by One Whose only purpose is your good? [[W-pI.135.18:1)

Your passage through time and space is not at random. You cannot but be in the right place at the right time. Such is the strength of God. Such are His gifts. [[W-pI.42.2:3-6)

Therefore, the plan includes very specific contacts to be made for each teacher of God. There are no accidents in salvation. Those who are to meet will meet, because together they have the potential for a holy relationship. [[M-3.1:5-7)

This may or may not involve changes in the external situation. Remember that no one is where he is by accident, and chance plays no part in God's plan. [[M-9.1:2-3)

No one is sent by accident to anyone. Relationships are always purposeful....Whoever comes has been sent. [[P-3.III.6:2-3, 5)

In each of these quotes, external events and situations are the result of the Divine. They are arranged by: "One Whose only purpose is your good," "the strength of God," "the plan," "salvation," and "God's plan." So here we have yet another version of the "two makers" idea. Only here the Holy Spirit is having a hand in the specific forms of the world. He is orchestrating the events of our lives. If we combine this with the four passages I mentioned above, we have to conclude that there must be room for external events to be the result of both our dreaming and His orchestration.

I see everything upside down, and my thoughts are the opposite of truth. I see the world as a prison for God's Son. It must be, then, that the world is really a place where he can be set free. I would look upon the world as it is, and see it as a place where the Son of God finds his freedom. [[W-pI.57.3:3-6

**MizMotown** · April-19-11, 11:11 AM

ok....just my two cents on the subject...lol

**13074Glenfield** · April-19-11, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

False equivalency may make you feel better, but it's feeble reasoning. Ah, yes, the poor little Christians being killed the world over. Hahaha. Whatever ...

This was your question:

"How many have died for atheism?"

I answered it. If you and DetroitPole don't like the answer or want to distort anything else that I say, that is your problem, not mine.

**Detroitnerd** · April-19-11, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by 13074Glenfield

This was your question:

"How many have died for atheism?"

I answered it. If you and DetroitPole don't like the answer or want to distort anything else that I say, that is your problem, not mine.

Well, there's your evidence right there of how religious people wind up killing. You simply refuse to think. In fact, you want to be told what to think. And you'll never have to think again. See, we actually like thinking. You are free to stop thinking whenever you like ...

**maxx** · April-19-11, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Ask the victims of Ghangas Khan, Stalin, and Pol Pot just to name a few.

They weren't asked to disavow their religion or die,.They died because they threatened the power of an authoritarian just like the people who were killed by Bloody Mary and all the other divine right monarchs.

**maxx** · April-19-11, 01:48 PM

in the beginning there was no world. We were with God in a timeless Heaven.

Don't forget, Mix Motown, these are just your beliefs. Some people spend so much of their time explaining their beliefs without calling them beliefs, they start to believe they're really based in something.

So how does one live in a world that is not physical? I guess that makes you non-physical too?
Ever pinch your hand in a door and hit your thumb with a hammer? Why does a non-physical body hurt just like a physical one?

The Atonement sounds like the catholic confession or reconciliation. How is it not just a borrowing from the catholic church?

Ask rather to receive what is already given

If I have cancer and I ask for good health, how is that already given, especially since if my cancer goes untreated I will probably suffer excruciating pain and die? If you start to talk about modern treatments for cancer, why were they not available to people living in preceding centuries? Does your god love those people less? Are they less deserving of modern medicine?

**13074Glenfield** · April-19-11, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Well, there's your evidence right there of how religious people wind up killing. You simply refuse to think. In fact, you want to be told what to think. And you'll never have to think again. See, we actually like thinking. You are free to stop thinking whenever you like ...

I think. I think I answered your question. I think it doesn't make any difference to you. I think that your responses have absolutely no relationship to what I've written. I think you know that but, for some reason, can't stop lashing out at people. I don't know what happened to you but I think it must have been very traumatic. I hope you find peace someday.