SkyTran offers Detroit new idea for mass transit

[Detroitnerd]

Yeah, let's give them the rights to build a system that has never been built, and I'm sure that they won't come running back again and again for subsidies, thereby compromising our ability to fund a PROVEN SYSTEM THAT WORKED HERE BEFORE AND CAN WORK AGAIN. Jesus. What nonsense ...

[ghettopalmetto]

Sure! Why build something that has only worked everywhere on earth for well over a hundred years? Let's reinvent the wheel yet again!

[downtownguy]

Yeah, let's give them the rights to build a system that has never been built, and I'm sure that they won't come running back again and again for subsidies, thereby compromising our ability to fund a PROVEN SYSTEM THAT WORKED HERE BEFORE AND CAN WORK AGAIN. Jesus. What nonsense ...

After looking at their website, I'm impressed. Perhaps we do need to think outside the bus... er, box. Detroitnerd, using your argument, we'd still be riding in buggies. I admit, I'm buying into their hyperbole, so why not educate us on why you think this isn't a viable system? Please give some specifics as to why you think this system doesn't work.

[Detroitnerd]

After looking at their website, I'm impressed. Perhaps we do need to think outside the bus... er, box. Detroitnerd, using your argument, we'd still be riding in buggies. I admit, I'm buying into their hyperbole, so why not educate us on why you think this isn't a viable system? Please give some specifics as to why you think this system doesn't work.

You are trying to design a resource-intensive system for low ridership. We already have a system like that: It's called the personal vehicle.

Nowhere do you get the gains in efficiency of an intelligent mass transit system, especially during peak hours.

No system like this has ever been applied to an American city, but debates over PRT have effectively derailed other systems [[light rail, etc.) that have proven track records.

You are talking about a system of four-people cars. To move 12,000 people along Gratiot at peak hour, this will require 3,000 vehicles. What happens when one breaks down? You have to get up on the guideway, fix the car, and let it go on again. This is an intensive operation that can take an hour. What happens to the other 10,000 people waiting in the pods? How can they escape in case of disaster? There are a lot of very important unanswered questions here.

What's more, we HAD a system that transported more than 100 million riders per year. It was called a network of streetcars. The modern version, light rail, is working in hundreds of cities across the world. We are preparing to implement it right now. Naturally, these hornswogglers want to step in and make their pitch now, before we see what light rail can do. They never pitch it to cities that have already begun building light rail because light rail networks bring a certain transit sophistication to a city, and enough knowledgable people get into positions of authority to laugh down PRT.

But if you want to listen to these flim-flam men, at least watch this first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF_yLodI1CQ

[davewindsor]

You are trying to design a resource-intensive system for low ridership. We already have a system like that: It's called the personal vehicle.

Nowhere do you get the gains in efficiency of an intelligent mass transit system, especially during peak hours.

No system like this has ever been applied to an American city, but debates over PRT have effectively derailed other systems [[light rail, etc.) that have proven track records.

You are talking about a system of four-people cars. To move 12,000 people along Gratiot at peak hour, this will require 3,000 vehicles. What happens when one breaks down? You have to get up on the guideway, fix the car, and let it go on again. This is an intensive operation that can take an hour. What happens to the other 10,000 people waiting in the pods? How can they escape in case of disaster? There are a lot of very important unanswered questions here.

What's more, we HAD a system that transported more than 100 million riders per year. It was called a network of streetcars. The modern version, light rail, is working in hundreds of cities across the world. We are preparing to implement it right now. Naturally, these hornswogglers want to step in and make their pitch now, before we see what light rail can do. They never pitch it to cities that have already begun building light rail because light rail networks bring a certain transit sophistication to a city, and enough knowledgable people get into positions of authority to laugh down PRT.

But if you want to listen to these flim-flam men, at least watch this first:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF_yLodI1CQ

Did you actually bother to google some of your questions? They have an FAQ website http://www.skytran.net/15Faq/faq01.htm

The skytran is moving at 100-150mph non-stop and then they separate on an offramp to their destination stop. They are not hindered by cross traffic. It can brake from 100mph to 0 within 55 feet. How fast is your light rail transit going to go? Light rail is constantly losing time at intersections if there's a red light, they are at a stop loading/unloading, or if a vehicle is blocking the rail lines. And what happens if a light rail vehicle breaks down? Then the whole system is jammed. It's top speed is no where close to what the skytran can do. So, even though each car cannot carry the amount a light rail car can. The sheer speed wouldn't require 3,000 vehicles to move that many people that light rail would require. In fact, the website says that they can move 14,000 people per hour during peak hours with a grid of 100 vehicles in a major city, not 3,000 vehicles. Did you make up your number?

If you bothered to watch the some of the other videos, the cars can join with one another if they are going on the same route. If one breaks down then another car can push it to the nearest off ramp. It's on a magnetically levitated grid, so it requires little power to move. Plus they have emergency wheels that kick in if the magnetic grid malfunctions.

In addition, it costs a fraction of what light rail does and they'll build it on their own dime. It's a reputable company that signed a partnership with NASA. I think this would be great for a city that wants to show its leading the way as a hub for technology and innovation like it had in its glorious past.

[Magnatomicflux]

The skytran is moving at 100-150mph non-stop and then they separate on an offramp to their destination stop. .............. In fact, the website says that they can move 14,000 people per hour during peak hours with a grid of 100 vehicles in a major city, not 3,000 vehicles. Did you make up your number?
If one breaks down then another car can push it to the nearest off ramp. .............

Where the hell is anyone going here anywhere close to downtown at 150 mph? Is this purly interurban?

If they had 100 pods, which according to the website only carry 2 people, leaving at 1 minute intervals.....don't they only carry 12,000 people p/hour? I'm no good at math so you'll have to figure out how they do it. Every 40 seconds? Are we missing an equation here? Like distance travelled?

If mine breaks I get shoved to a siding? Then what? I just hang there until someone gets around to me??? No thanks.

[davewindsor]

Where the hell is anyone going here anywhere close to downtown at 150 mph? Is this purly interurban?

If they had 100 pods, which according to the website only carry 2 people, leaving at 1 minute intervals.....don't they only carry 12,000 people p/hour? I'm no good at math so you'll have to figure out how they do it. Every 40 seconds? Are we missing an equation here? Like distance travelled?

If mine breaks I get shoved to a siding? Then what? I just hang there until someone gets around to me??? No thanks.

I'm guessing the one minute is an approximation, not a literal minute.

You're assuming these pods will break down a lot. I doubt that's going to be the case. For the most part, you're you're just levitating on a magnetic grid. These pods weigh about 200lbs a piece. It doesn't have 10,000 moving parts on it like a car.

[ghettopalmetto]

Did you actually bother to google some of your questions? They have an FAQ website http://www.skytran.net/15Faq/faq01.htm

The skytran is moving at 100-150mph non-stop and then they separate on an offramp to their destination stop. They are not hindered by cross traffic. It can brake from 100mph to 0 within 55 feet.

And they know this from the prototype they've constructed, yes?

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be on ANY vehicle that decelerates from 100mph to 0mph in only 55 feet.

[davewindsor]

And they know this from the prototype they've constructed, yes?

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be on ANY vehicle that decelerates from 100mph to 0mph in only 55 feet.

Yes, they know this from millions of dollars of R&D partnering and testing their proprietary technology with half a dozen large companies including NASA.

I doubt you'd use Light Rail either when your car can get you from point A to B 10X faster than a mule like LTR.

[jtf1972]

I don't know about you, but I don't want to be on ANY vehicle that decelerates from 100mph to 0mph in only 55 feet.

Don't you know... They have a special anti-gravity, positronic mega-stoppy braking system. It can even make dairy-free chocolate pudding!

[ghettopalmetto]

Don't you know... They have a special anti-gravity, positronic mega-stoppy braking system. It can even make dairy-free chocolate pudding!

Wheeeeeeee! I mean, who cares if this thing decelerates at a rate FOUR TIMES THAT OF AN AIRPLANE ON A RUNWAY?

I mean, it's not like we're talking practicality here, right?

[Magnatomicflux]

Also reminds me of Peter Griffin singing

"They should make a tube that sends you right to work.
That would save a lot of gas, but I guess there'd be a lot of tubes"

[Detroitnerd]

Did you actually bother to google some of your questions? They have an FAQ website http://www.skytran.net/15Faq/faq01.htm

Dave, we've been over this several times already on this board. The pod people's science is ... junk science. They simply pull numbers out of thin air. They promise, essentially, the impossible: That you can build a resource intensive network for a low-ridership system and that it will all be done without subsidies. Does this sound too good to be true? That's because it is. And I hate the lying-ass people who put this system out there precisely because it takes normally sensible people such as yourself and gets them credulous and excited about a system that's nonsense.

Where is the peer-reviewed literature on PRT?

Where has a PRT system been built for a city so we can examine:

1) Financials?
2) Empirical operating information?
3) Breakdown statistics?

We can't, because the system has never been built.

So all those "videos" and "FAQs" are just a bunch of made-up fantasizing about super-high tech concept vehicles that were already starting to look outdated and silly by the 1980s.

And, as profscott pointed out, "Antitransit people love things like Sky Tran because they move the discussion away from proven transit technologies and onto unicorns."

[davewindsor]

Dave, we've been over this several times already on this board. The pod people's science is ... junk science. They simply pull numbers out of thin air. They promise, essentially, the impossible: That you can build a resource intensive network for a low-ridership system and that it will all be done without subsidies. Does this sound too good to be true? That's because it is. And I hate the lying-ass people who put this system out there precisely because it takes normally sensible people such as yourself and gets them credulous and excited about a system that's nonsense.

Where is the peer-reviewed literature on PRT?

Where has a PRT system been built for a city so we can examine:

1) Financials?
2) Empirical operating information?
3) Breakdown statistics?

We can't, because the system has never been built....

It's NASA science, not junk science. Unless you think the whole NASA system is a joke.

You wonder why the city looses 25% of it's population every decade since 1950. It's because the people of this city lost their vision and desire for leading the way in innovation. If we wait for another city to become a prototype, it'll never come here. Another city will get the glory and this city will continue to decline.

People thought Henry Ford was crazy when he introduced the rolling assembly line and made the cheapest car and paid twice what other automakers were paying. He did it and the city skyrocketed from 150,000 people to millions. If you had a new idea or invention you wanted to try, you came to Detroit to make it happen. That's been the vision that made this city great. In the last 60 years, what happened to that vision? People basically said we don't want leaders of innovation here anymore. They're opposing everything like you're doing now. And guess what? They moved to Chicago, New York or any other great city that embraced their innovative ideas.

What do they ask? Rights of way. That's it. What does the city have to loose by embracing innnovation? Nope, we're just going to opposing any new idea because we don't want to see the city turn around. How about exploring the idea some more? Nope, we want this city to decline more in a sea of negativity.

Let's put up light rail instead. We ripped the lines out decades ago. Watch in the next decade where another mayor decides to rip out the rail lines again because it's congesting the roads and too slow to be practical.

[ghettopalmetto]

It's NASA science, not junk science. Unless you think the whole NASA system is a joke.

The "NASA science" is the proposed propulsion technology. That's it. The systems engineering portion [[i.e. how the network behaves and performs)--which has been debunked decades ago by PhDs who study systems engineering for a living-- is completely manufactured by the "company".

Don't be fooled. This isn't "mass transit"--each vehicle proposes to carry only 2 people. Operationally, it's nothing more than a replication of the existing automobile-based transportation system, but without the redundancy of a roadway network.

Henry Ford's assembly line worked because it introduced cost-saving efficiencies into the manufacturing marketplace. Prior to Ford, each car was "custom-built". From a systems engineering standpoint, this SkyTran technology does not introduce anything that doesn't already exist, and does not improve upon the performance of known, reliable, and predictable models that we already have. Thus, there is no need to "embrace new ideas" when they are merely half-baked replications of more efficient means that already exist.

[Wesley Mouch]

...You wonder why the city looses 25% of it's population every decade since 1950. It's because the people of this city lost their vision and desire for leading the way in innovation. If we wait for another city to become a prototype, it'll never come here. Another city will get the glory and this city will continue to decline.

People thought Henry Ford was crazy when he introduced the rolling assembly line and made the cheapest car and paid twice what other automakers were paying. He did it and the city skyrocketed from 150,000 people to millions. If you had a new idea or invention you wanted to try, you came to Detroit to make it happen. That's been the vision that made this city great. In the last 60 years, what happened to that vision? People basically said we don't want leaders of innovation here anymore. They're opposing everything like you're doing now. And guess what? They moved to Chicago, New York or any other great city that embraced their innovative ideas.

What do they ask? Rights of way. That's it. What does the city have to loose by embracing innnovation? Nope, we're just going to opposing any new idea because we don't want to see the city turn around. How about exploring the idea some more? Nope, we want this city to decline more in a sea of negativity.

Let's put up light rail instead. We ripped the lines out decades ago. Watch in the next decade where another mayor decides to rip out the rail lines again because it's congesting the roads and too slow to be practical.

Nice to see at least one progressive on this site. There sure are a lot of conservatives around here.

Grant 'em a small test project if they put up a bond to demolish it if they fail, with rights for more if it works.