Drastic Cuts Proposed For Detroit Schools

**mwilbert** · February-22-11, 01:58 PM

If the DPS educated people now, this would be a travesty. Since it pretty much doesn't, I can't get too worked up. This plan is callous and insane, but from an educational standpoint it is really just more of the same. I guess if it destroys the exam schools there may be some actual damage to kids, but otherwise I would expect the DPS teachers and administrators to be the main victims.

I think the people who think it is a big problem for the redevelopment of the city are wrong. The people who are moving into the city were always very unlikely to use the DPS. Anything that makes the DPS go away and paves the way for alternatives is probably a positive.

**iheartthed** · February-22-11, 02:10 PM

This doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell and is probably just a power play against the union. Union contracts with the school board set the max number of students per class at something like 35, I believe. The state would have to go to court and get those contracts voided in order to legally do this... And about the only way to get those contracts voided would be for the district to declare bankruptcy. Michigan won't let the district declare bankruptcy, which is why they appointed an emergency financial manager in the first place.

**Zacha341** · February-22-11, 02:15 PM

Well that's a point, however I am watching how the union in Wisconsin and DC are faring... whatever happens there will pave the way for what happen here it can be argued. What a mess indeed.

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell and is probably just a power play against the union. Union contracts with the school board set the max number of students per class at something like 35, I believe. The state would have to go to court and get those contracts voided in order to legally do this... And about the only way to get those contracts voided would be for the district to declare bankruptcy. Michigan won't let the district declare bankruptcy, which is why they appointed an emergency financial manager in the first place.

**PCN** · February-22-11, 11:59 PM

The state has class size limits for special ed students. After they chase everyone else out with a class size of 60, special ed will be all that is left.

The state created the deficit. Then they brought in Bob Bob who managed to keep the deficit going. He should give himself another raise.

**Det_ard** · February-22-11, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

This doesn't have an ice cubes chance in hell and is probably just a power play against the union. Union contracts with the school board set the max number of students per class at something like 35, I believe. The state would have to go to court and get those contracts voided in order to legally do this... And about the only way to get those contracts voided would be for the district to declare bankruptcy. Michigan won't let the district declare bankruptcy, which is why they appointed an emergency financial manager in the first place.

The class size limit isn't being followed currently, according to teachers who post here. Why? There's not enough money to do so. As the district continues to lose students, class sizes will continue to go up, regardless of what the labor contract says. They can't hire enough teachers to get class sizes down because the money doesn't exist to do so. I don't know if the doomsday scenario in Bobb's plan is likely or not, but just because a union contract says "35 max" doesn't mean the money to accomplish that will magically appear.

DPS is in the final stages of a death spiral that's been going on for decades. Poor academic performance > fewer students > less money > cutbacks > poor academic performance ...
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

**iheartthed** · February-22-11, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

The class size limit isn't being followed currently, according to teachers who post here.

That's beside the point. From a legal standpoint, the state and/or district can't set a policy that violates their contract with the union.

**Hypestyles** · February-22-11, 03:14 PM

...Now what.. this on the day of the state of the city speech.. of course Bing does not control management of DPS.. he had better avoid mentioning this..
Where is the federal assistance, Arne Duncan, et. al?

..any billionaires who could be cajoled into helping out? Who was that guy who wanted to build a bunch of schools here but got stonewalled?

**Det_ard** · February-22-11, 03:25 PM

Originally Posted by Hypestyles

...Now what.. this on the day of the state of the city speech.. of course Bing does not control management of DPS.. he had better avoid mentioning this..
Where is the federal assistance, Arne Duncan, et. al?

..any billionaires who could be cajoled into helping out? Who was that guy who wanted to build a bunch of schools here but got stonewalled?

I didn't expect much out of Obama generally, but for some reason I did think that he, with Arne Duncan, would take some interest in Detroit's school situation. Perhaps as a laboratory to try promising reforms, or something. Yet I can't think of anything Obama's administration has done to help Detroit's schools.

**mwilbert** · February-22-11, 03:37 PM

There is no percentage in Obama trying to fix Detroit's schools. Who would give you credit--the citizens of Detroit who are probably already 97% in favor of you already? And it would have a vanishingly small chance of having any noticeable effect.

If the DPS has a competent administration, which as far as I can see is one of the many things it doesn't have, Detroit would make a good place to try things out in the schools, because you can't do much damage, and improvement would be pretty apparent. However, before you throw money down a rathole, it is best to get rid of the rats.

**Det_ard** · February-22-11, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

That's beside the point. From a legal standpoint, the state and/or district can't set a policy that violates their contract with the union.

Yes, evidently the district would be in violation of their contract with the union, just as they are now. l'm sure they're also in violation of various NCLB rules about providing extra help to students in failing schools, etc. But the money isn't there, so what is your point? How do you get money to magically appear? Or are you just making the point that the contract is being violated? Which is apparently true, but ...

**iheartthed** · February-22-11, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

Yes, evidently the district would be in violation of their contract with the union, just as they are now. l'm sure they're also in violation of various NCLB rules about providing extra help to students in failing schools, etc. But the money isn't there, so what is your point? How do you get money to magically appear? Or are you just making the point that the contract is being violated? Which is apparently true, but ...

The contract is being violated because the teachers haven't challenged it yet. The district is under state control, so the district's resources is effectively as deep at the state of Michigan's tax rolls. Since the state hasn't pushed DPS into bankruptcy -- and apparently doesn't want to -- then the state is responsible for fulfilling DPS's financial obligations.