DPS says teacher tried to pawn school laptop

**jiminnm** · December-31-10, 12:49 PM

Johnny5 and Gannon, I expect that what this teacher did would be considered unlawful conversion of property, perhaps even embezzlement. I haven't read the Michigan criminal code in a while. The pawn shop might have been also guilty of accepting stolen property if not reporting the attempt.

Whether she was desperate or stupid really isn't relevant to the facts of what she did. Whether she is sorry now about what she did, or that she got caught, isn't really relevant. The back story simply is not relevant. She was converting property that wasn't hers into property that would be hers.

Chris, I suspected that she would require a hearing and guess that your assessment of the likely result is correct.

I was raised by parents who believed that taking something that didn't belong to you was wrong, regardless of one's personal circumstance. I still think that's true.

**Gannon** · December-31-10, 12:50 PM

Correction, the whistle-blower who supervised the fireperson who took the door got fired.

I was solidly on his side, too. But there seemed to be a witch-hunt from ABOVE in his case, here it seems to be from those who think that the law is above humans, when it should be serving us. I have the same trouble with those who think money is more valuable, too.

Such is life in our modern age...

But I agree it was at least one of the stupidest things EVER, and she is supposed to be teaching the next generation...of hopefully non-Kwame's. I want to emphasize that I do NOT agree with letting her off or looking the other way...although it seems some want to force that view upon me. I am not easy on crime, but there is usually more to the story than meets the initial view.

Buy American · December-31-10, 01:30 PM

Was she pawning it to put food on her table for her starving kids or was she pawning it to go to the casino or to purchase drugs? Either way, it was a really stupid thing to do. Now, she will be out of a job totally with no chance of a monthly income....and remember folks, this is a teacher of your kids we are talking about.

**Lowell** · December-31-10, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ray1936

Whether she should be fired, crucified, or forgiven is besides the point. What baffles me is how can an educated person be so friggin' stupid????

^^ What Ray said.

One could argue that she should not be fired for theft but for being too stupid to teach aka incompetency.

Also, since this is attempted theft isn't it role of the prosecutor to get a warrant for her arrest?

**English** · December-31-10, 01:53 PM

This is absolutely insane. Who on earth would do such a thing?

Of course, one of my problems with teacher-issued laptops is that both times I separated from a district [[in each case, four years after I received a laptop) I tried to give them back and they refused. "We don't want this -- we're getting new ones." I am serious. When I said that it didn't make any sense, and I had computers of my own [[which I did -- there's NEVER been a time when I did not own a PC or Mac purchased by myself or my parents), they copped an attitude in both cases.

Please note that there is MASSIVE turnover in education. Think about the number of teachers who retire or leave a district for whatever reason. Think about the LAPTOP CARTS and SMART LABS that a smart central administration could create if they simply used all the computers retirees and ex-employees turned in.

So now I have two useless and outdated computers sitting in my basement and my closet that I have not used in years, but that I can never, ever get rid of just in case my name ever comes up in some investigation.

My only regret about the 7 1/2 years that I was a K-12 teacher is that I didn't wear a hidden camera at all times. My kids were mostly great and I know that I can teach, but some of the conversations with the grown-up stakeholders had to be seen and heard to be believed.

**PeterhuntPrincess** · December-31-10, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by pffft

What would you get, $10 for that thing? It's criminal and it's stupid. This isn't one of the many Detroiters out of work, the woman has a well-paying, union-repped job. Please...

Exactly what I was thinking... If she has been with DPS for that long she should be making good enough money by now to not have to pawn that netbook. We were told to take them home and had to sign a liability waiver [[although our tech. person said they were safer with us than in the school over break). I assumed we were to bring them back next week. This lady obviously has a problem bigger than just $50 bucks for a tire. She needs to be canned. She wouldn't be able to walk into my building after this. The staff and students would eat her alive. No need to investigate, she should resign ASAP!!!

9mile&seneca · December-31-10, 02:55 PM

If you go into education, I think it's better to go into the administrative end. Make six figures for coming up with impossible goals for those who babysit the felons.

**DetroitTeacher** · December-31-10, 03:31 PM

I, like English, still have my last DPS issued laptop sitting in my basement. I also tried to give it back when it died a month after they gave them to us. The repair guy at BestBuy told me that he'd seen MANY of the DPS issued laptops come in for repairs and they simply weren't worth repairing. I can't get rid of it, ever, just in case they come asking for it.

I was under the impression with the Netbooks that they were for our [[teachers') use. My admin told me to take it home and keep it with me at all times and to NOT leave it in the building, ever! I have a computer attached to a roll around cart in my room and really have no need for a Netbook. I find them too small for my liking [[I can only use two fingers to type on the thing). I doubt I'll use it much. I could have used some novels for my class, instead of the Netbook!

**English** · December-31-10, 04:04 PM

DT, that makes sense. I guess that DPS and the other [[suburban) district I worked for was concerned about liability. They didn't want our old computers sitting around. It seems like such a huge waste, though! Even if they couldn't use them, someone, somewhere could.

I definitely understand your feelings about the Netbooks. For my money, I'd rather have more smart classrooms with *desktops* that can be locked down and that are more difficult to steal, and to use my own laptop at home, than to have to be liable for district computers when there just aren't adequate IT procedures.

**Jimaz** · December-31-10, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Gannon

... If there was malice and aforethought, then I AGREE with the harshest of rushed judgments already posed by others....

From The Detroit News: DPS says teacher tried to pawn laptop

District officials said tape was placed over the small property sticker on the back of the computer....

Sounds deceptively aforethoughty right there.

**DetroitTeacher** · December-31-10, 04:58 PM

Forget the tape on the back of the computer, it reeks of DPS all over the front and on the Welcome screen [[see my photos from a post #11, above). She couldn't even try to hide the fact that this was DPS property.

citylover · December-31-10, 05:06 PM

Drugs are a good guess

**Ray1936** · December-31-10, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Lowell

Also, since this is attempted theft isn't it role of the prosecutor to get a warrant for her arrest?

Whether a larceny [[or attempted larceny) is a felony or a misdemeanor depends on the value of the purloined item. Since I've been away from law enforcement for over a quarter century now, I'm not sure where the breaking point is. Used to be fifty bucks in my day, probably a couple hundred or more now. If the case is a misdemeanor, the police need to request a warrant from the prosecuting attorney before an arrest can be made.....UNLESS she did this attempt in the presence of a police officer. Lot of hairs to split.

Also, if she just tried to pawn it, with the intent to reclaim it later, I'm not so sure any criminal act has taken place. Doesn't make her any the less dumb though.

**DetroitTeacher** · December-31-10, 08:08 PM

Wouldn't a criminal act be assumed if it were NOT HERS to pawn? That would be akin to stolen property, no? We had to sign a statement that states that the Netbook is the Property of DPS and is not our personal property. Even if she had every intention to retrieve the Netbook later, it still wasn't hers to do with as she wished.

**Ray1936** · December-31-10, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitTeacher

Wouldn't a criminal act be assumed if it were NOT HERS to pawn? That would be akin to stolen property, no?

Could be, DT, but I'd love to be her defense attorney if she were criminally charged under such circumstance. I don't think intent to deprive could be proven.

Hey, I'm just playing the Devil's advocate.

**DetroitTeacher** · December-31-10, 08:37 PM

Well, with all the publicity and criminal charges and firings going on about computers and equipment in DPS coming up missing, one would have to be a fool to try to pawn, sell, or trade anything to do with DPS [[especially with DPS slapped all over it).

**LeannaM** · January-01-11, 01:13 AM

Well that was stupid.

**Django** · January-01-11, 01:24 AM

Is it illegal to pawn something that doesn't belong to you but you have possession of?

She didn't sell it, she took a loan out on it. Who's to say she she didn't need to get a hold of $100 for a few hours. Im not sayin shes right, it obviously wasnt hers to pawn but she only pawned it, she didnt sell it.

**DetroitTeacher** · January-01-11, 01:27 AM

We got paid on Tuesday and she was pawning it on Wednesday?? Pretty sad. I just don't buy the idea that she was merely pawning it.

**marcwigle** · January-01-11, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Gannon

No, I'm not. I am as serious as I can be here.

Are you SURE about what you say?!

I never said it was an excuse, it sure is tough to get through you inflexible law-n-order types. Is it a thick skull, or that armor around your atrophied heart?!

What part of "we need to learn WHY she did this before passing judgement" and "pawning is NOT necessarily selling" do you not understand?!

What portion of desperation have YOU ever felt in your apparently spit-clean law-abiding life...and why do you all feel such a need to pass such hard judgment over this woman without knowing the full story?!

Why the rush to nail everyone who makes a basic mistake to the cross you so quickly want to build?!

Fact is, none of us know the rest of her story. I already said it doesn't excuse her actions, but IF she acted out of desperation and made a simple mistake thinking she could get just a week's worth of cash until that next paycheck...during vacation when she obviously wouldn't need it in class...then her penalty should be way less than IF she actually DID intend on stealing and merely selling it outright.

There is NO firm evidence she did ANYTHING of that sort, in my casual observation. I'm not sure a one of us has any observation deeper than that...

Unreal... she's supposed to be setting an example, first of all and, secondly, I don't want her teaching my kids that's it's alright to steal when your circumstances warrant it.

I'm all for innocent until proven guilty but, I don't care what her circumstances are. It's pretty cut and dry... she either stole or, she didn't.

**Meddle** · January-01-11, 03:58 AM

If they gave EACH kid a Netbook and made their PARENTS accountable,

What parents? The BabyMomma who is living with her parents and 3 other families, none of who can find jobs even if they looked?

The BabyDaddy who hasn't been seen since conception?

The fixed-income, possibly disabled grandparents who are letting the kid sleep at their house because the parent[[s) are in prison?

**ja!mz** · January-01-11, 06:57 AM

Whether she should be fired, crucified, or forgiven is besides the point. What baffles me is how can an educated person be so friggin' stupid????

---thats what I say whenever I hear someone from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave get in front of a camera

**rjk** · January-01-11, 11:08 AM

How does a pawn shop work?
Let's say the laptop is worth $750. How much would a pawn shop pay for it?
Am I correct in assuming that the seller has X number of days/months to pay back the amount they recieved plus some extra to get their item back?

**iheartthed** · January-01-11, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by citylover

Drugs are a good guess

I was thinking gambling problem. Either way, short of someone holding her loved ones at gunpoint, I don't have a good reason for why she shouldn't be fired ASAP.

**sumas** · January-01-11, 11:35 AM

Gannon, normally I'd be in your corner, I feel for people who do non violent desparate things, just not in this case.

No doubt she thought like other teachers on the board it wasn't useful etc. I understand the distinction between a loan and a sale. This is different it is a violation of trust with our children.

Union or not I believe she deserves a hearing but either way, I think she should be fired mostly for being criminally stupid. Our kids deserve teachers that have ethics and some smarts.

Bet her defense will be, I was going to buy some school supplies.