Demolition to Clear way for amphitheater in Hart Plaza

[Gannon]

I think we should give Ford Auditorium one more year, but sincerely let it be used for some non-standard applications.

They always say it has poor acoustics. True, especially for symphonic presentations...with 80-120 sound sources echoing through that cinderblock hell.

But with modern surround sound movies and television, and electronic dance and trance music...that multi-echoic space could blossom into must-see status on every tourism guide.

I'd say its acoustics were merely one generation ahead of its time.

The current amphitheater could use seats, and risers extending the capacity [[and containing the SPLs a bit)...and that underground restaurant should always be open. That location could be a destination spot, also.

[Detroitnerd]

So you're saying the ford aud should not be demo'd?

No, I am talking about the mentality here. As for the Ford Auditorium being demolished, that makes sense. Especially in light of what they've been doing with the riverfront, turning it into a sort of promenade, the auditorium has actually been sort of an obstacle, a thing in the way. I have no problem with taking it down.

I think where I part ways with this "plan" is having ANOTHER venue on the river. Isn't it overkill? We can have a huge stage set up in Cadillac Square. We can have concerts in Campus Martius. We can have large shows in Chene Park. At what point do we have too many different venues for performance? Why this emphasis on just building more and more and more? Not only do I wonder where the hell this magical money is going to come from, it seems to be ill-planned to crowd the RiverWalk with another venue, especially since the point of the RiverWalk seems to be having more landscaping, walking, promenading along the river.

And, on another level, as usual, I smell payola whenever people start using words like "monster" and saying "we need to accomplish this right now."

Yes on demo, but let's hold off on developing anything there for the time being.

[davewindsor]

I don't think most people recognize that it's abandoned... Especially visitors. I never realized it was abandoned until I started reading this forum.

Ditto.

Quite unlike the missing roof on the AAA Building that the city could buy out and demo or the ridiculous facade supported by steel girders in Grand Circus Park. Can't miss that from the Tourist Mover. Or how about a visitor wandering from Tiger stadium and seeing the unsafe and fire bombed houses in Brush Park? That offers such a better image of downtown for visitors.

[detroitbob]

hopefully the pipe organ will be rescued and if possible relocated.

[Pcm]

Agreed that it should come down.

Also agreed that there shouldn't be an ampitheatre built there anytime soon. I'm all for grass and trees. There aren't enough trees around town anyway.

And lets be real, there are TWO, yes, two ampitheatres at Hart Plaza. The large underground one by the fountain, and the small underground one by the pyramid.

Why would we need three?

[DetroitPlanner]

Detroit already has a waterfront amphitheatre. It's called Chene Park. Do we really need another one? Seems like a silly waste of money to me.

I agree turn it into greenspace. lets face it we have enough concert venues.

[ghettopalmetto]

Ironically, this is ONE instance where it makes sense to demolish an abandoned structure for green space!

[Fnemecek]

Does anything about this demo need to be "rationalized"?

When one is spending several million in tax dollars, it absolutely ought to be rationalized. Spending money without a good reason to do so is never a good idea. If you want to be stupid with your own money, that's your business.

However, when we're talking about several million in tax dollars, with so many other pressing needs that are going unmet, I absolutely expect there to be a good case for it before spending the money.

[Fnemecek]

Tear. That. Schitt. Down. Two times. Hell, I'll push the plunger. You do have to give the city props for one thing: It's so rare that anything is demolished in this town where there is a plan in place for the site BEFORE wrecking begins.

I presume you meant that sarcastically.

The Hudson's Building had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Madison-Lenox had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Statler Hilton had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

Notice a pattern here?

As everyone ponders their next comment, I'll just pop on over to the park that was built on the Lafayette Building site and then check on development of the Tiger Stadium site.

[iheartthed]

I presume you meant that sarcastically.

The Hudson's Building had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Madison-Lenox had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

The Statler Hilton had a plan for its use post-demolition. Nothing came of said plan.

Notice a pattern here?

As everyone ponders their next comment, I'll just pop on over to the park that was built on the Lafayette Building site and then check on development of the Tiger Stadium site.

Well at least this time everybody might actually get what they want to replace the Ford Auditorium: nothing.

[EastsideAl]

Ford Auditorium definitely should go. Even though I have many personal memories of the building [[my first DSO concert and several to follow, Miles Davis, Oscar Peterson, and a number of graduations of family and friends), as others have said, it's never been very good at its primary use. And with even the much nicer and far better-sounding Masonic Auditorium on the verge of being abandoned because of lack of bookings, is almost certain never to be used productively again.

I join others here though in thinking that an amphitheater may not be the best replacement for it. I understand the thinking involved - that the amphitheater in Hart Plaza is too small for the really big events that are hosted there, which is why big temporary stages are built for the Hoedown, Electronic Music Festival, Jazz Festival, etc. But that's only a few dates a year, and Chene Park already has a really nice amphitheater that's somewhat underutilized.

I realize that Hart Plaza, as an Isamu Noguchi design, is basically untouchable [[although perhaps they could do something with that cave-like area down below as part of this project), and even though it serves its function as a public space relatively well, the city's hands are kind of tied in modifying it to fit changing needs. But what would really be much nicer than building an amphitheater next to it, which would only be used occasionally, would be to turn that land into something like a beautiful grassy slope, with some trees, walkways, benches, and perhaps even some shops off to the side as others have recommended. In short, a park that would truly open the river up to downtown every day for access and use in a way that Hart Plaza doesn't quite do.

[Detroitnerd]

Ironically, this is ONE instance where it makes sense to demolish an abandoned structure for green space!

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

[kraig]

Chene Park may not be the factor that everyone thinks it will be as far as redundancy is concerned. The City's Recreation Department controls Chene Park. A new amphitheater will probably be under control of the Detroit Riverfront Conservancy or the Convention Center Authority after the dust settles.

[French777]

I thought the reason they wanted to build an amphitheater at Hart Plaza was because they wanted to demolish the one at Chene Park so when"Future housing" is there along the riverfront, the residents would have less noise outside? Or is that not true at all?

[manualshift]

I would hope this would replace Chene park and eliminate the market for large parking lots in Rivertown and free up more waterfront for future development [[or sewage runoff containment pools).

[esp1986]

I recall the ultimate plan being to entirely rework Hart Plaza. I have nothing against green space, in fact one of the biggest parks in Downtown Chicago where they have huge events like Lollapalooza is just a big grass park with a band shell at the end. I would love to see them put in some grass and trees and have a band shell at one end, not even an ampitheatre, but just a bandshell so events like Downtown Hoedown have a huge open space.

If they do actually end up reworking the entire plaza, they will have a ton of room to work with once the auditorium comes down. The footprint of the building isn't huge, but when you combine it with the driveway and parking lot in back, it adds up. It should be more than enough room to provide ample green space along with fountains and other attractions to make it a fun place to be.

[canuck]

I kind of like that the river is more accessible to downtown and has more potential than a lot of other cities, except Chicago's lakefront. Toronto gave the green light for developers to build condos
on the lake in front of downtown offices, and I think that was a big mistake. They could well afford to open up the lakefront to events and parks like Chicago did a long time ago, and managed to enhance over the years. So Detroit would do well to avoid building unnecessary structures that block the view. On the other hand, it can only benefit by developing a comprehensive public space of some magnitude in order to attract loads of people; tourists and metro folks who need to reconnect with Detroit's beauty.

[preserve]

How about turning it into Asian Village? Oh yeah....nevermind

[esp1986]

Freep has just posted an article of their own that goes a little more in depth than the News article. This says it will have a "sprawling lawn" which is great, and they will try to salvage any artifacts from the auditorium.

http://www.freep.com/article/2010111...as-soon-as-May

[French777]

The Freep article now says the City hopes to have it torn down by May 2011.

[EastsideAl]

I recall the ultimate plan being to entirely rework Hart Plaza.

I would think that there would be significant resistance to any large-scale reworking of Hart Plaza, not only from the local historic preservation community, but nationally and even internationally, given its provenance.

[kraig]

I would hope this would replace Chene park and eliminate the market for large parking lots in Rivertown and free up more waterfront for future development [[or sewage runoff containment pools).

Doubtful. Demolishing Chene Park would add a few more layers of resistance from the Model City Neighborhood. A neighborhood that hasn't made any noise or made any protests in the past few decades. So, it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Moreso, taking out Chene Park would likely be a deal breaker for City Council, who will probably go for the deal otherwise. Again, not worth the trouble of putting it on the table.

[Gistok]

The Freep article mentions of Ford Auditorium "as the acoustics began to deteriorate".... WTF does that mean??

The acoustics were horrible from day one... they didn't suddenly or slowly deteriorate... they sucked from the get go... no clue where that journalist got that idea??

When Ford Auditorium was first planned it was planned as a civic auditorium. Only after construction began did they decide to incorporate the DSO to perform there... by then the construction of the space was too far along to do serious acoustics modifications, and what changes they did make were "too little too late". Even the organ had to be modified to play louder to try to throw sound into the dead spaces at the rear of the auditorium.

It would be nice to save the Aoelian Skinner Organ, as well as the Marshall Fredericks mural in the lobby before they demolish it.

As for building an amphitheatre... why? The underutilized [[and poorly scheduled) 6000 seat Chene Park amphitheatre could use more bookings. And we have to remember that the original Chene Park amphitheatre was a 3000 seat theatre built in the early 80s.... only to be ripped apart and enlarged to a 6000 seat venue [[at great expense to the city) in the 1990s. Why should more money be spent to annihilate the venue now?? A big waste of public dollars.

As for it being a noise concern for "potential" new apartments/condos in the area.... let me ask this question... are the people who live in Stroh's River Place complaining about the noise from the amphitheatre nearby? If not, then there's no reason to rip it down.

And getting to Ford Auditorium... it sits atop the Ford Parking Garage. Will that get ripped apart as well? It seems that eliminating underground parking nearby is a real waste of money. Underground parking near the riverfront is greatly prefered to the above ground parking structures that currently block parts of the river view.

Tear down Ford Auditiorium? Fine... but leave the underground parking, and adapt the site to that situation... with green spaces instead of more cement.

And FIX the problems with Chene Park... but don't tear it down!

[Bob Green]

I am pretty sure the organ from Ford Auditorium has been removed long ago and the city has it in storage [[if I remember hearing correctly). Would be nice to put it in Orchestra Hall.

[DetroitPlanner]

I am fairly certain the Fredricks sculpture was removed years ago.
http://www.svsu.edu/mfsm/harlequins.html