Downtown Birmingham, a juvenile hang out spot

**BrushStart** · July-31-10, 12:42 PM

This is what happens when you have suburbs with nothing for teens to do. When they hit a certain age, they want to escape the isolation of their house and go around where all the people are. In the 'burbs, that includes shopping malls and small downtown areas, like Birmingham. Parents have no problem dumping their kids off in Birmingham because it is safe and nothing will happen, except the kids will run around, smoke cigarettes, and pretend to be "urban." To the snoods in Birmingham- deal with it. You reap what you sow.

Edit: Growing up in the suburbs, I craved a taste of the "city." I didn't know what was outside my own backyard. I thought the whole world was just one huge suburban nightmare. Even then I couldn't figure out why people wanted to live like that- I knew there must be something more. Kids hang out in downtown Plymouth, Northville, etc for that reason. Eventually, when I was about 16, I remember going to Ann Arbor, and it was like a playground. I spent every weekend there. I was never even exposed to Detroit other than going to a few Tigers games at the old stadium and going to the DMC a few times. My parents are still afraid of Detroit when they come downtown to visit me. They couldn't believe when I moved into the city. Kids that are exposed to the city at a younger age are not as fascinated with the city as suburban kids like me were. I still remember the first time my dad took me downtown for some show at COBO. I had no idea that there were skyscrapers in SE Michigan. I was wide-eyed for city life from that point on.

**cmubryan** · July-31-10, 05:14 PM

I think the reason its becoming more of a "concern" is that these kids aren't the typical "Birmingham type" teens. To be blunt, it looks as if there are many inner-city kids hanging out in Birmingham in large groups which is scaring some of the other people going there. At least this is what I have witnessed first hand and have heard from some peers. The demographics of the Birmingham visitors has shifted a little which is making some people uncomfortable.

**Zacha341** · July-31-10, 06:02 PM

Indeed a factor overall is people 'dumping' their teens, feeling secure that so long as they're in groups and not 'milling' about in Detroit they'll at least make it home alive.

But what is the real factor/ reason really, or should I say concern?

A. More black families [[and their teens) who now live in Birmingham, etc [[an inevitable factor as more middle-class blacks leave Detroit).

OR

B. Teenagers of various social and economic backgrounds coming from the Detroit to hang out in the Big B?

Perhaps for some little distinction is made.......

Originally Posted by cmubryan

I think the reason its becoming more of a "concern" is that these kids aren't the typical "Birmingham type" teens. To be blunt, it looks as if there are many inner-city kids hanging out in Birmingham in large groups which is scaring some of the other people going there. At least this is what I have witnessed first hand and have heard from some peers. The demographics of the Birmingham visitors has shifted a little which is making some people uncomfortable.

**R8RBOB** · July-31-10, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by cmubryan

I think the reason its becoming more of a "concern" is that these kids aren't the typical "Birmingham type" teens. To be blunt, it looks as if there are many inner-city kids hanging out in Birmingham in large groups which is scaring some of the other people going there. At least this is what I have witnessed first hand and have heard from some peers. The demographics of the Birmingham visitors has shifted a little which is making some people uncomfortable.

Sorry, but you weren't blunt enough. Let's drop the political correctness and just say this using your words:

To be blunt, it looks as if there are many Black kids hanging out in Birmingham in large groups which is scaring some of the White people going there.

Now isn't that better? It is exactly what's going on but in this "so-called post-racial world of Obama's" no one wants to sound like a bigot or a racist. For the record, I would suspect that teens [[White teens) have been converging to B'ham for years but now that a large number of Black folk' have left the "inner-city" for a good life in the burbs and their children are going in the gatherings in Birmingham mingling in with White teens well, it's a problem.

bartock · August-01-10, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Sorry, but you weren't blunt enough. Let's drop the political correctness and just say this using your words: Now isn't that better? It is exactly what's going on but in this "so-called post-racial world of Obama's" no one wants to sound like a bigot or a racist. For the record, I would suspect that teens [[White teens) have been converging to B'ham for years but now that a large number of Black folk' have left the "inner-city" for a good life in the burbs and their children are going in the gatherings in Birmingham mingling in with White teens well, it's a problem.

This is right on.

There have been gobs of kids hanging out in Birmingham for many years. About 15 years ago I remember the "raver kids" [[the sucker, glow-stick, etc., kids) from R.O., and elsewhere were littered around Birmingham...one of my roomates during a short time I stayed in Pleasant Ridge was one. I'm usually not much about the racial stuff, but this "revelation" about kids hanging out in Birmingham has "new demographic" written all over it.

**R8RBOB** · August-01-10, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by bartock

This is right on.

There have been gobs of kids hanging out in Birmingham for many years. About 15 years ago I remember the "raver kids" [[the sucker, glow-stick, etc., kids) from R.O., and elsewhere were littered around Birmingham...one of my roomates during a short time I stayed in Pleasant Ridge was one. I'm usually not much about the racial stuff, but this "revelation" about kids hanging out in Birmingham has "new demographic" written all over it.

Thanks for verifying my observation of Birmingham. I try not to use the racial component unless it is needed. That said, when the poster commented on inner-city youth going to Birmingham, I had to commented. IMO, I don't see Detroit youth [[Black youth) traveling to Birmingham to hang out in their downtown when Detroit have a much larger downtown to gather. Now, I won't be oblivious to think that Detroiters don't go Birmingham because I know they do and I know that Detroit youth who may have friends out in the burbs would travel to B'ham to hang with their friends but I refuse to accept that the crowds of kids which contain Black kids all come from the city of Detroit because that is false, however, to the ones complaining when they see the crowds and they see a lot of Black faces, the first thing that they are thinking is that they are from Detroit which is why the news has picked up the story.

**detmsp** · August-01-10, 01:05 PM

You guys are all being ridiculous in your thinking that all of a sudden black kids are showing up and everyone just now got upset. This has been something that store owners in Birmingham have been bitching about for literally 15 years. There were articles in the local paper about how a lot of them were upset that the Palladium was opening because the movie theater was going to draw even more teens. That had to have been more than 15 years ago, and I doubt the business owners were upset because they thought a movie theater would be an "urban" teen magnet

**R8RBOB** · August-01-10, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by detmsp

You guys are all being ridiculous in your thinking that all of a sudden black kids are showing up and everyone just now got upset. This has been something that store owners in Birmingham have been bitching about for literally 15 years. There were articles in the local paper about how a lot of them were upset that the Palladium was opening because the movie theater was going to draw even more teens. That had to have been more than 15 years ago, and I doubt the business owners were upset because they thought a movie theater would be an "urban" teen magnet

Hmm, I believe you have validated what I posted. I said this has been a normal thing in Birmingham for years. 15 years and not a peep from the media about this and now in 2010, the merchants of Birmingham are crying to the press. Fox 2, WDIV and WXYZ had their cameras and reporters on Old Woodward reporting on the fears of the business owners and visitors. Something smells a bit fishy here. What do you think?

**Nee** · August-01-10, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by cmubryan

I think the reason its becoming more of a "concern" is that these kids aren't the typical "Birmingham type" teens. To be blunt, it looks as if there are many inner-city kids hanging out in Birmingham in large groups which is scaring some of the other people going there. At least this is what I have witnessed first hand and have heard from some peers. The demographics of the Birmingham visitors has shifted a little which is making some people uncomfortable.

I highly doubt that Detroiters are driving way out to Birmingham and just dropping off to hangout. How do you know that the kids are from the inner-city? Skin color should not be an indicator as African Americans live in Birminham and surrounding suburbs.

**cmubryan** · August-01-10, 08:58 PM

I said "looks" as if there are many inner city kids hanging out there. I didn't say they are. The apparel that is worn by many of the teens, expressions that are made from the teens are typically more often found in U.S. inner cities more than a suburban area.

However, it is true that many of these teens are not neccesarily living in the inner-city. I am just saying that their outward apperance is someting that most people in this country would associate with the inner-city. It is what it is. Absolutely not meant to be insulting.

**R8RBOB** · August-01-10, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by cmubryan

I said "looks" as if there are many inner city kids hanging out there. I didn't say they are. The apparel that is worn by many of the teens, expressions that are made from the teens are typically more often found in U.S. inner cities more than a suburban area.

However, it is true that many of these teens are not neccesarily living in the inner-city. I am just saying that their outward apperance is someting that most people in this country would associate with the inner-city. It is what it is. Absolutely not meant to be insulting.

There you go again with the PC speak. So it is fair to assume that all the suburban kids are wearing polo shirts with skinny jeans and all the inner-city kids are wearing oversize t-shrits with pants hanging off their asses? And could you explain to us squares what expressions can determine if you are city or suburban?

**DTWflyer** · August-01-10, 10:33 PM

Originally Posted by cmubryan

I said "looks" as if there are many inner city kids hanging out there. I didn't say they are. The apparel that is worn by many of the teens, expressions that are made from the teens are typically more often found in U.S. inner cities more than a suburban area.

However, it is true that many of these teens are not neccesarily living in the inner-city. I am just saying that their outward apperance is someting that most people in this country would associate with the inner-city. It is what it is. Absolutely not meant to be insulting.

Whether you want to hear it or not, much of the crime other than they typical teenage stuff of weed, drinking, and vandalism is caused by residents of Southfield & Detroit. Yes they do come out to Birmingham because of the lack of options to see a movie or wander in their town. That said, have you ever been to the Star Southfield lately???? That crowd there is unruly.

**cmubryan** · August-01-10, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nee

I highly doubt that Detroiters are driving way out to Birmingham and just dropping off to hangout. How do you know that the kids are from the inner-city? Skin color should not be an indicator as African Americans live in Birminham and surrounding suburbs.

By the way, "way out to Birmingham" is a strech. Shooting up Southfield Freeway and then on to Southfield Road which hits Maple in downtown Birmingham is a whole 7 MILES from the city limits.

**Zacha341** · August-02-10, 03:58 AM

Indeed distance is not a factor these days.

I recall as a kid my parents would reference places like Royal Oak, Troy and Novi as being "out there". Like it we were talking about going to Lansing or Grand Rapids in terms of distance! They weren't from Michigan and they had a 70's perspective as to locations and access related to distance.

Indeed now Birmingham is around the corner to me... I pop into Royal Oak just to get to Trader Joes for a few items. It's routine. Birmingham shares its boarder with Southfield at certain parts with Southfield Rd. bottoming out into B'ham.

Also Birmingham is part of the Woodward corridor that is very familiar to most.

Heck teens go everywhere now!

They even hang out an Great Lakes Crossing and that is a "out there" a bit!

Originally Posted by cmubryan

By the way, "way out to Birmingham" is a strech. Shooting up Southfield Freeway and then on to Southfield Road which hits Maple in downtown Birmingham is a whole 7 MILES from the city limits.

**cmubryan** · August-02-10, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by Zacha341

Indeed distance is not a factor these days.

I recall as a kid my parents would reference places like Royal Oak, Troy and Novi as being "out there". Like it we were talking about going to Lansing or Grand Rapids in terms of distance! They weren't from Michigan and they had a 70's perspective as to locations and access related to distance.

Indeed now Birmingham is around the corner to me... I pop into Royal Oak just to get to Trader Joes for a few items. It's routine. Birmingham shares its boarder with Southfield at certain parts with Southfield Rd. bottoming out into B'ham.

Also Birmingham is part of the Woodward corridor that is very familiar to most.

Heck teens go everywhere now!

They even hang out an Great Lakes Crossing and that is a "out there" a bit!

Technically, Southfield does not border Birmingham anywhere. It borders Royal Oak, and Beverly Hills which border Birmingham.

**Zacha341** · August-02-10, 06:22 AM

Hmm, thanks for the clarification... I thought they bordered at Southfield Rd. and Thirteen? At the Corners Shopping Center? Well, per google that is Franklin MI? See link below for the Franklin reference:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie...PW1B5jSMMLq7Fk

TJ Maxx Beverly Hills reference per google:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=tjmaxx...7,0.01369&z=16

In any event Southfield is not far, just keep going down Southfield Rd. and you bottom out into B'ham...

Originally Posted by cmubryan

Technically, Southfield does not border Birmingham anywhere. It borders Royal Oak, and Beverly Hills which border Birmingham.

bartock · August-01-10, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by BrushStart

This is what happens when you have suburbs with nothing for teens to do. When they hit a certain age, they want to escape the isolation of their house and go around where all the people are. In the 'burbs, that includes shopping malls and small downtown areas, like Birmingham. Parents have no problem dumping their kids off in Birmingham because it is safe and nothing will happen, except the kids will run around, smoke cigarettes, and pretend to be "urban." To the snoods in Birmingham- deal with it. You reap what you sow.

Edit: Growing up in the suburbs, I craved a taste of the "city." I didn't know what was outside my own backyard. I thought the whole world was just one huge suburban nightmare. Even then I couldn't figure out why people wanted to live like that- I knew there must be something more. Kids hang out in downtown Plymouth, Northville, etc for that reason. Eventually, when I was about 16, I remember going to Ann Arbor, and it was like a playground. I spent every weekend there. I was never even exposed to Detroit other than going to a few Tigers games at the old stadium and going to the DMC a few times. My parents are still afraid of Detroit when they come downtown to visit me. They couldn't believe when I moved into the city. Kids that are exposed to the city at a younger age are not as fascinated with the city as suburban kids like me were. I still remember the first time my dad took me downtown for some show at COBO. I had no idea that there were skyscrapers in SE Michigan. I was wide-eyed for city life from that point on.

A lot of us who grew up in the suburbs had the same experience and Detroit was a fascination of sorts. I used to love visiting my grandmother because she was within city limits. When I got older, I lived in Detroit for several years. You say that kids will go to downtown Birmingham [[which really isn't THAT small, by the way), and "pretend to be urban." Well, in a way, any of us suburban transplants who spent years in Detroit simply pretended to be urban on a larger and longer scale. Kids like malls. Downtown Birmingham is like one big outdoor mall.

I don't bedgrudge my fellow suburbanites who didn't have the same fascination that I did, nor would I blame their parents for any Detroit attitudes/fears because - all social theories and blame aside - the Detroit they grew up in as innocent kids is not the Detroit that existed when we grew up. At best I'd say we have a bit more of a rounded viewpoint of things, but we all live in glass houses.

To your last bolded point, as a parent of three, when my kids are old enough and inevitably hanging out, I can bet that the last thing I'll want to hear is someone telling me that it was something that I had sown. This is certain shit that most kids are going to do, no matter how they are raised or what they are exposed to.