Why is it a recession rather than the second Great Depression?

[oladub]

And if he had pulled our troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq, the Republicans would have said that he didn't want to defend the nation. Republican propaganda is always negative about Dems these days. Few Republicans will defy the party line. They move in lockstep like the party members of the old USSR.

So that's it. Democrats secretly want to be the peace party but are afraid of being criticized. Maybe that's why Johnson got a lot of Americans killed in Vietnam too. I wish Democrats were similarly afraid of Republicans when it came to obscene spending.

Please warn us when you post somthing by Paul Krugman.A few weeks ago, he was encouraging policies that would have needlessly angered China. Now, in this article, he was still grumpy that Merkel and company rejected his ideas to throw a lot of money around. Krugman even had the audacity to mischaracterize Hoover who pursued the same Keynesian policies tried by FDR, W, and Obama. Krugman probably knew better. Since Obama's failure as the Pied Piper of spending, the markets have reacted to the contrasting policies. The dollar is down. The Euro is up. That should add a few pennies for a gallon of gas. Thanks, Barry.

Top economist supports Merkel's push against Obama's criticism
"We do not see the resolution of the current imbalances in countries accumulating increasingly more debt," said Issing, who heads the team of economists advising Chancellor Merkel. He added that further increasing national debts would weaken the confidence of the markets.

[maxx]

So that's it. Democrats secretly want to be the peace party but are afraid of being criticized.

They don't want to be characterized as not defending the nation sufficiently. Americans are pretty militaristic. When was the last time the defense budget was reduced?

Maybe that's why Johnson got a lot of Americans killed in Vietnam too.

We were supposedly fighting communism as you should know.

I wish Democrats were similarly afraid of Republicans when it came to obscene spending.

And just do nothing about the economic mess left by the Bush admin.?

Krugman even had the audacity to mischaracterize Hoover who pursued the same Keynesian policies tried by FDR, W, and Obama.

Please point out Hoover's Keynesian policies. Were those the couple of programs passed in the last year of his admin?
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1445.html

Since Obama's failure as the Pied Piper of spending, the markets have reacted to the contrasting policies. The dollar is down. The Euro is up.

Sounds like during the shrub's admin.

[oladub]

maxx: "They don't want to be characterized as not defending the nation sufficiently. Americans are pretty militaristic. When was the last time the defense budget was reduced?

We were supposedly fighting communism as you should know."

Oh maxx, you cold warrior you! That's so Cheney.

I thought Clinton closed a bunch of bases and reduced the size of the Navy. If that wasn't enough to scale back the defense budget, them Eisenhower and Coolidge actually did so.

And just do nothing about the economic mess left by the Bush admin.?

Obama should have jailed some bankers instead of giving them bonuses and the recent Christmas present and allowed their banks to go under. Smaller, more traditional banks would have picked up the pieces instead of forcing taxpayers covering the Fannie deal. The economic restart button is liquidating the Bush era debt not expanding Bush's mess by increasing the debt.

Please point out Hoover's Keynesian policies.

from wikipedia

"In one of the largest tax increases in American history, the Revenue Act of 1932 raised income tax on the highest incomes from 25% to 63%. The estate tax was doubled and corporate taxes were raised by almost 15%." "Hoover also encouraged Congress to investigate the New York Stock Exchange, and this pressure resulted in various reforms."

National debt expressed as a fraction of gross national product climbs from 20% to 40% under Hoover; levels off under FDR; soars during World War II. From Historical Statistics US [[1976)

"Franklin D. Roosevelt blasted the Republican incumbent for spending and taxing too much, increasing national debt, ...as well as placing millions on the dole of the government. Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".

'Even so, New Dealer Rexford Tugwell later remarked that although no one would say so at the time, "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."'

Hoover's National Credit Corporation was replaced by the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. "Hoover and the Congress approved the Federal Home Loan Bank Act, to spur new home construction, and reduce foreclosures."

" The final attempt of the Hoover Administration to rescue the economy occurred in 1932 with the passage of the Emergency Relief and Construction Act, which authorized funds for public works programs and the creation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. The RFC's initial goal was to provide government-secured loans to financial institutions, railroads and farmers. The RFC had minimal impact at the time, but was adopted by President Franklin D. Roosevelt and greatly expanded as part of his New Deal."

Sounds like during the shrub's admin.

Yup. That's one of my points.

[Stosh]

Oh maxx, you cold warrior you! That's so Cheney.

I thought Clinton closed a bunch of bases and reduced the size of the Navy. If that wasn't enough to scale back the defense budget, them Eisenhower and Coolidge actually did so.



Obama should have jailed some bankers instead of giving them bonuses and the recent Christmas present and allowed their banks to go under. Smaller, more traditional banks would have picked up the pieces instead of forcing taxpayers covering the Fannie deal. The economic restart button is liquidating the Bush era debt not expanding Bush's mess by increasing the debt.



from wikipedia

"In one of the largest tax increases in American history, the Revenue Act of 1932 raised income tax on the highest incomes from 25% to 63%. The estate tax was doubled and corporate taxes were raised by almost 15%." "Hoover also encouraged Congress to investigate the New York Stock Exchange, and this pressure resulted in various reforms."

National debt expressed as a fraction of gross national product climbs from 20% to 40% under Hoover; levels off under FDR; soars during World War II. From Historical Statistics US [[1976)

"Franklin D. Roosevelt blasted the Republican incumbent for spending and taxing too much, increasing national debt, ...as well as placing millions on the dole of the government. Roosevelt attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible." Roosevelt's running mate, John Nance Garner, accused the Republican of "leading the country down the path of socialism".

'Even so, New Dealer Rexford Tugwell later remarked that although no one would say so at the time, "practically the whole New Deal was extrapolated from programs that Hoover started."'

Hoover's National Credit Corporation was replaced by the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. "Hoover and the Congress approved the Federal Home Loan Bank Act, to spur new home construction, and reduce foreclosures."

" The final attempt of the Hoover Administration to rescue the economy occurred in 1932 with the passage of the Emergency Relief and Construction Act, which authorized funds for public works programs and the creation of the Reconstruction Finance Corporation. The RFC's initial goal was to provide government-secured loans to financial institutions, railroads and farmers. The RFC had minimal impact at the time, but was adopted by President Franklin D. Roosevelt and greatly expanded as part of his New Deal."


Yup. That's one of my points.

Do you ever take a stand on anything? Nobody is gonna vote lie bertarian. Ever.

[DetroitDad]

video: Obama says "Job Loss" "keeps him up at night"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...&snid=18424776
Maybe that happens somewhere after the parties at night and the golfing in the morning?

[Papasito]

land of confusion

love that old video hahaha

[Papasito]

Gee, no response to my question. Must mean that you either read real slow, or can't answer the question to your favor.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-4213

snapshot:

TITLE I--INFRASTRUCTURE INCENTIVES

Sec. 101. Extension of Build America Bonds.


Sec. 102. Exempt-facility bonds for sewage and water supply facilities.


Sec. 103. Extension of exemption from alternative minimum tax treatment for certain tax-exempt bonds.


Sec. 104. Extension and additional allocations of recovery zone bond authority.


Sec. 105. Allowance of new markets tax credit against alternative minimum tax.


Sec. 106. Extension of tax-exempt eligibility for loans guaranteed by Federal home loan banks.


Sec. 107. Extension of temporary small issuer rules for allocation of tax-exempt interest expense by financial institutions.


TITLE II--EXTENSION OF EXPIRING PROVISIONS


Subtitle A--Energy

Sec. 201. Alternative motor vehicle credit for new qualified hybrid motor vehicles other than passenger automobiles and light trucks.


Sec. 202. Incentives for biodiesel and renewable diesel.


Sec. 203. Credit for electricity produced at certain open-loop biomass facilities.


Sec. 204. Extension and modification of credit for steel industry fuel.


Sec. 205. Credit for producing fuel from coke or coke gas.


Sec. 206. New energy efficient home credit.


Sec. 207. Excise tax credits and outlay payments for alternative fuel and alternative fuel mixtures.


Sec. 208. Special rule for sales or dispositions to implement FERC or State electric restructuring policy for qualified electric utilities.


Sec. 209. Suspension of limitation on percentage depletion for oil and gas from marginal wells.


Sec. 210. Direct payment of energy efficient appliances tax credit.


Sec. 211. Modification of standards for windows, doors, and skylights with respect to the credit for nonbusiness energy property.

and MUCH MUCH MORE
because hybrid cars and peoples doors and windows dont have a damn thing to do with unemployment benefits!!!what about ... Sec. 205. Credit for producing fuel from coke or coke gas. or Sec. 245. Mine rescue team training credits?!?! WTF!?!?!? How about they just extend unemployment benefits and leave the other crap out of it...

[maxx]

Oh maxx, you cold warrior you! That's so Cheney.

I don't which statement you are referring to. National defense is a common political mantra.

I thought Clinton closed a bunch of bases and reduced the size of the Navy. If that wasn't enough to scale back the defense budget, them Eisenhower and Coolidge actually did so.

And yet we still have bases in Italy. If we are building bases in Iraq and and Afghanistan, we should close down some. And how are we manning all these places without a draft? With overpriced soldiers-of-fortune and men from the third world?

Obama should have jailed some bankers instead of giving them bonuses and the recent Christmas present and allowed their banks to go under. Smaller, more traditional banks would have picked up the pieces instead of forcing taxpayers covering the Fannie deal.

And what would have happened to all those subprime mortgages still on the banks' books?
RE: Hoover's programs.
Sounds like too little too late. Roosevelt's approach lowered unemployment from 25% to 15%. Unfortunately, then he listened to the conservatives and cut back on his programs which stalled the recovery.

[maxx]

Papsito:
The first heading to the sections you quoted says it all "Infrastructure Incentives". They are helping out the construction and other industries. People can't live on unemployment forever. Businesses need help and the banks aren't lending to many people.

[maxx]

Charlie Rose interviews Barney Frank on the last couple years.
http://www.charlierose.com/guest/view/5121

[Jimaz]

Charlie Rose interviews Barney Frank on the last couple years.
http://www.charlierose.com/guest/view/5121

Thanks for that.

I don't remember when I've seen a legislator spend that much time communicating with the people. I'd like to see more legislators do that.

[Stosh]

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill...bill=h111-4213

snapshot:

and MUCH MUCH MORE
because hybrid cars and peoples doors and windows dont have a damn thing to do with unemployment benefits!!!what about ... Sec. 205. Credit for producing fuel from coke or coke gas. or Sec. 245. Mine rescue team training credits?!?! WTF!?!?!? How about they just extend unemployment benefits and leave the other crap out of it...

That is not possible. The pie is sliced 50 ways. Everyone has a vested interest. Bills are bundled that way for a reason, you can't have procedural votes on everything individually, it's just not possible. There is literally not enough hours in the day for this to be done. Maybe you should take a nice class on the theory of government and quit whining?

[oladub]

Maxx wrote: "I don't which statement you are referring to. National defense is a common political mantra."

Defense or offense? I was talking about all the little wars and referring to your statement, "They don't want to be characterized as not defending the nation sufficiently. Americans are pretty militaristic. When was the last time the defense budget was reduced? We were supposedly fighting communism as you should know." which ties in with your comment "Unfortunately, then [[Roosevelt) listened to the conservatives and cut back on his programs which stalled the recovery" What both statements have in common is that they both use kow-towing to Republicans as an excuse for failure be it for hawkish foreign policy or high unemployment after eight years in office. At the rate Roosevelt was going, he could of had unemployment down to 5% after 16 years in office if those Republicans hadn't somehow interfered.

And yet we still have bases in Italy. If we are building bases in Iraq and and Afghanistan, we should close down some. And how are we manning all these places without a draft? With overpriced soldiers-of-fortune and men from the third world?

Don't you think the kids should get paid for what they do and what's up your support of involuntary servitude? Close down the bases in Italy, Iraq, and Afghanistan. What are we doing there anyway?

And what would have happened to all those subprime mortgages still on the banks' books?

Maybe the bankers would think of something before they got to jail. As it stands, President Obama signed an executive order on Christmas Eve allowing banks to sell their bad mortgages to Fannie Mae and put the government on the hook for paying the face value of those loans so the taxpayers will have to pay for all the bad loans while the bankers continue to receive their bonuses. Have you got something in mind worse than that?

[Hermod]

There are more than two choices. We could close down some of our bases especially the ones in Europe.

Compare our bases in Europe now to our bases in 1989. We have made a massive redeployment out of Europe.

[maxx]

oladubon't you think the kids should get paid for what they do and what's up your support of involuntary servitude?

maxx: Oh, that's why they stopped the draft? Because it was involuntary servitude? I hate to think what our budget would have looked like if we had fought WWII with private armies. Nowadays, private armies are just another career path.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ry-403062.html

[Jimaz]

The F Word: Great Hoarding Causing Great Hurt

If reality doesn't meet their fantasized standards they go on strike against the game by taking their ball home -- even after winning hand over fist for so many years. "Fairness is unfair to us!" cry the parasitic saboteurs in power.

All I hear from them is "Let them eat cake."

[oladub]

oladubon't you think the kids should get paid for what they do and what's up your support of involuntary servitude?

maxx: Oh, that's why they stopped the draft? Because it was involuntary servitude? I hate to think what our budget would have looked like if we had fought WWII with private armies. Nowadays, private armies are just another career path.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ry-403062.html

No, I don't think the draft was stopped but it is a reason that there should never have been a draft. Being forced to serve involuntarily except for commiting a crime is unconstitutional according to the wording of the 13th Amendment. The draft was ended most recently by Nixon who increased pay to attract a volunteer army. The additional expense was offest by lower training expenses and a more efficient army. You don't seem to mind bankers being shoveled taxpayer money as much as you object to paying a living wage to those called upon to fight in wars. In post #178, you sounded like you swallowed some neocon pills and now you want to draft kids to save money. Volunteer armies are different than private armies. I didn't bring up the latter. You did.

[maxx]

I know the volunteer army is different than private armies and I am talking about private armies. If neocons are going to start wars because they like the war powers of the presidency, then they need to take the price of the war into consideration. But there's a let-them-eat-cake attitude about the Iraq war. When the U.S. military can't meet recruitment goals, the D o D just hires private companies to do the work that used to be done by the military. Then it's let the vets eat sh!t when they come home injured.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/0...-army-in-iraq/

As for my comments on national defense: Is there anyone running for Congress on a platform of cutting the Defense Dept.'s budget?

[oladub]

As for my comments on national defense: Is there anyone running for Congress on a platform of cutting the Defense Dept.'s budget?

Ron Paul and Barney Frank 7/7/2010
"You'd have a hard time finding two lawmakers here in Washington farther apart on the political spectrum than Democratic Congressman Barney Frank and Republican Congressman Ron Paul, but now they are teaming up big time to call for substantial cuts in U.S. military spending."

[maxx]

Did anyone bring up cutting the Defense budget when the Republicans were voting to not extend unemployment?

[Pam]

Another guy in Congress talking about cutting defense:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0_TtYQEDTo

[maxx]

RE: The War is Making You Poor Act

If the purpose of this law is to bring down the deficit, giving people an enormous tax break defeats the purpose.

[oladub]

Add Kucinich to the list of those wanting a military pullback.
Kucinich Says White House Abused Its Power, Wants Forces Out of Pakistan

We are up to four.
1. Frank [[D-Senate)
2. Paul [[R-House)
3. Grayson [[D-House)
4. Kucinich [[D-House)

The White House anticipates a record breaking $1.47T deficit this year which translates into borrowing 41 cents for every dollar the federal government spends to goose the economy. How about raising everyone's taxes to so we don't have as much money to spend ourselves. Our reduced spending will then offset the government's additional spending. Now there's a solution but some of you Keynesians will have to explain how more government spending is better than less personal spending.

[DetroitDad]

Add Kucinich to the list of those wanting a military pullback.
Kucinich Says White House Abused Its Power, Wants Forces Out of Pakistan

We are up to four.
1. Frank [[D-Senate)
2. Paul [[R-House)
3. Grayson [[D-House)
4. Kucinich [[D-House)

The White House anticipates a record breaking $1.47T deficit this year which translates into borrowing 41 cents for every dollar the federal government spends to goose the economy. How about raising everyone's taxes to so we don't have as much money to spend ourselves. Our reduced spending will then offset the government's additional spending. Now there's a solution but some of you Keynesians will have to explain how more government spending is better than less personal spending.

How are we protecting ourselves from future crisis and disasters. It seems that we're putting all our eggs into one basket, in that we're already spending too much of our current resources on one problem [[thank God BP is cleaning up after itself).

[mjs]

Did anyone bring up cutting the Defense budget when the Republicans were voting to not extend unemployment?

Yes. Some Did.