American Consumer Survey

[Stosh]

What do you mean "not quite" ???

If you weren't aware, the US Constitution usurps whatever Jefferson personally "felt" or "thought", aside from what is actually IN the Constituiton. Again, the amendment process is there for the very reason you speak of. Case closed.

My whole point is the deification of Jefferson as a Libertarian god.

And if Oladub had his way, there would not BE a constitution.
No government= No constitution

[Stosh]

What would a list of names and addresses of folks that would:

1) Respond to something by mail
2) Naively divest personal information
3)List their income
4)Harass others to do the same

be worth to a telemarketer or junkmail spammer? A flashdrive full of those would be worth an attractive sum.

Check your inbox. I'm sure they got your address for free.

[Sstashmoo]

The US was founded on the principles of freedom. Those that would agree to surrender those freedoms are about as un-American as one can get.

"Those that would trade liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

[Stosh]

The US was founded on the principles of freedom. Those that would agree to surrender those freedoms are about as un-American as one can get.

"Those that would trade liberty for security deserve neither" Benjamin Franklin

But under Oladub's worldview, you would not have a United States, as you have known it. Surrender your freedoms? Just fill out the census and be glad that you still have a country.

And that Benjamin Franklin quote is played out. Here's another one:

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do"

And I'm not the one complaining.....

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "I'm sure they got your address for free."

They don't want yours.. If they wish to contact you they can do it through the Bill Oreally show on Fox.

[Stosh]

Quote: "I'm sure they got your address for free."

They don't want yours.. If they wish to contact you they can do it through the Bill Oreally show on Fox.

O RLY?

[johnsmith]

Just fill out the census and be glad that you still have a country.

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do"

Yes, just fill out the papers, in detail. Answer anything they ask of you. Big Brother is relying on your cooperation! You have nothing to fear. The census was certainly not used to help identify and round up Japanese During WW2 was it? Nor was it ever used in 2004 to help identify those to the the DHS who identified themselves as arabs neither. Your data is secure and will not be used against you. Just shut up and answer the questions! According to Stosh, only fools complain. You don't want to be a fool do you?

[Stosh]

Yes, just fill out the papers, in detail. Answer anything they ask of you. Big Brother is relying on your cooperation! You have nothing to fear. The census was certainly not used to identify and round up Japanese During WW2 was it? Nor was it ever used in 2004 to help identify those to the the DHS who identified themselves as arabs neither. Your data is secure and will not be used against you. Just shut up and answer the questions! According to Stosh, only fools complain.

Exactly. A fool and his country are soon parted.

There another quote for you to copy, dubby!

[johnsmith]

Exactly. A fool and his country are soon parted.

There another quote for you to copy, dubby!

Nice non-reply. Let the Japanese and arabs know about being fools.

Oh, and here's a "dubby" from one of your first posts in this thread.

Article 1, Section 2, the Constitution includes the phrase:
[An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct

Enumeration. That's it. A number. Headcount. You posted it yourself. You cannot constitutionally defend anything else, race, color, phone number, income, relations, nothing.

[Stosh]

Nice non-reply. Let the Japanese and arabs know about being fools.

Those are victims of the predjudices of the United States being attacked by a foreign power.

That's a completely different scenario, and you know it all too well.

I stand by my quote. And the ORIGINAL quote was by Benjamin Franklin, another founding father.

So basically, you are calling out Franklin, not me. Nothing less that I could expect from a deconstructionist anarchist... and his buddies.

[johnsmith]

I don't care who your out of context quote was from. Franklin wasn't talking about ones who choose to follow the constitution. You're the one who is acting like you know who the fools are here. Since I know where you stand in regards to abuses committed by our government on our very own citizens [[you posted them here), I think I understand your views and desires of the necessity of an invasive census completely.

I disagree and choose to follow the constitution instead.

Nothing less that I could expect from a deconstructionist anarchist...

Good one! I guess the writers of Article 1, Section 2 were "deconstructionist anarchists" as well huh?

Good day!

[oladub]

The 10th amendment reference was a mistake on my part. Don't act so dumb. The 16th is what I meant to put down. Once again, you reinforced it, good for you. Eliminating the 16th amendment will eviscerate the United States, which you seem to want so badly. Then that reverts the whole thing back down to the "state's rights" thing, which is what you seem to desire in the first place.

You sure must hate the US.

You should ask everyone if they love the US on the Census form. I do resist the ghastly Orwellian police state that you champion in which a servile population obeys its masters and you serve as one of the arbiters of subjugation.

It was difficult to read your mind since both amendments had entered the conversation. At least you are consistent in supporting autocratic government first in invasive and punitive census technique and now in confiscatory policy. At least Congress went through the required amendment process to mandate income taxes. Initially, income taxes were only 2% for most people. That wasn't too cumbersome. Now taxes are typically 15% and take many hours to complete. Like the census, income taxes have metastasized. But our larger problem is the federal government's addiction to more and more spending. In 2009, spending surpassed all government revenue by $2T.

Some Democrats fondly point out that Clinton balanced the budget. If we just went back to the Clinton budget, we would cut government spending in half - about what is now contributed by personal income tax. I would be glad to do that and pay for anything else with tariffs on foreign products; a taxation which Congress previously relied on and favors US workers.

'State responsibilities' might be a better term than 'state rights' but they go hand in hand.

My whole point is the deification of Jefferson as a Libertarian god.

And if Oladub had his way, there would not BE a constitution.
No government= No constitution

Wrong, please review my response in post #93 where I already responded to your straw man argument. I only mentioned his hand in writing the Declaration of Independence and, next thing, you started acting like a witch confronted with a silver cross. Hamilton won.

Surrender your freedoms? Just fill out the census and be glad that you still have a country.

Question: Do you categorize yourself as a progressive/liberal or as a neocon?

[jcole]

Well, I just filled out my intrusive census form. Whew, that took all of 3 minutes and the intrusive questions were: How many people live at this address; are they hispanic; what race are they;do they stay anywhere else and how old are they.
Wow, people, break out your weapons and the supplies you have stockpiled in your basement. The Black Helicoptors are coming.

[Stosh]

You should ask everyone if they love the US on the Census form. I do resist the ghastly Orwellian police state that you champion in which a servile population obeys its masters and you serve as one of the arbiters of subjugation.

I dare to say that I've possibly never encountered a more cliche ridden personality than yourself. I'm having a hard time understanding how somebody could lack original thought in the quantity you possess.

It was difficult to read your mind since both amendments had entered the conversation. At least you are consistent in supporting autocratic government first in invasive and punitive census technique and now in confiscatory policy. At least Congress went through the required amendment process to mandate income taxes. Initially, income taxes were only 2% for most people. That wasn't too cumbersome. Now taxes are typically 15% and take many hours to complete. Like the census, income taxes have metastasized. But our larger problem is the federal government's addiction to more and more spending. In 2009, spending surpassed all government revenue by $2T.

Ah, so now YOU are the one scanning people's minds, how appropriate!
I know that taxes are too high. I know spending is too high. But we are not an agrarian society any more, and there's a whole lot of things that the government pays for that is rather necessary to our survival now than in the 17th-18th century. To eliminate the income tax amendment would be suicidal for the country.

Some Democrats fondly point out that Clinton balanced the budget. If we just went back to the Clinton budget, we would cut government spending in half - about what is now contributed by personal income tax. I would be glad to do that and pay for anything else with tariffs on foreign products; a taxation which Congress previously relied on and favors US workers.

I agree.

'State responsibilities' might be a better term than 'state rights' but they go hand in hand.

Yes, but they still signify the same thing. And in many permutations, represent a whole lot of negative baggage.

Wrong, please review my response in post #93 where I already responded to your straw man argument. I only mentioned his hand in writing the Declaration of Independence and, next thing, you started acting like a witch confronted with a silver cross. Hamilton won.

You know full well of the myriad of pages on the internet by Libertarians championing him. I just felt it was an appropriate analogy.

Question: Do you categorize yourself as a progressive/liberal or as a neocon?

Look on my census form. I'll write it on there. Since it's so insecure..

[Sstashmoo]

Quote: "are they hispanic"

What does it matter? Aren't we all just citizens living in a diversified country? Why do they keep drawing lines and making distinctions.

[Pam]

Well, I just filled out my intrusive census form. Whew, that took all of 3 minutes and the intrusive questions were: How many people live at this address; are they hispanic; what race are they;do they stay anywhere else and how old are they.
Wow, people, break out your weapons and the supplies you have stockpiled in your basement. The Black Helicoptors are coming.

I got the short one too. Didn't they also use to ask occupation? It seemed shorter than I remember.

[Stosh]

I got the short one too. Didn't they also use to ask occupation? It seemed shorter than I remember.

There is no long form. It's been replaced by the American Community Survey, which has been castigated at great length by a whole host of know-it-alls.

[Pam]

There is no long form. It's been replaced by the American Community Survey, which has been castigated at great length by a whole host of know-it-alls.

Yes, I got that. I guess I should have said "standard form". It's really short, whatever it is called. I wouldn't have minded answering more questions.

[johnsmith]

Well, I just filled out my intrusive census form. Whew, that took all of 3 minutes and the intrusive questions were: How many people live at this address; are they hispanic; what race are they;do they stay anywhere else and how old are they.

3 minutes? I just got my form yesterday, it only took me 2 seconds to fill out how many people live at my house.

[Stosh]

3 minutes? I just got my form yesterday, it only took me 2 seconds to fill out how many people live at my house.

Great job, Smith. Now you cost the government countless dollars in unneeded expense to find out why you sent in an incomplete form. Yay.

Fiscal responsibility, my ass. You KNOW they will come out to see why, whether it is right or wrong in your worldview or not. And you guys say the GOVERNMENT wastes money? Gee I wonder why they have to, in some cases.

[RaumVogel]

Quote: "are they hispanic"

What does it matter? Aren't we all just citizens living in a diversified country? Why do they keep drawing lines and making distinctions.

It matters because they may inflex federal dollars in that area to make government documents,etc. bi-lingual if they think it is worth the investment.On the flip side,why waste taxpayers $$ printing bi-lingual if everyone speaks the same language.

[jcole]

3 minutes? I just got my form yesterday, it only took me 2 seconds to fill out how many people live at my house.

Well, I read it.

[Stosh]

I'm beginning to wonder whether we would be better served by calculating the census within the income tax forms we have to fill out every year. It's a simple matter to add the questions needed in the forms themselves, would it not? Of course this would entail a change in the Constitution [[horror!) but it would save the money spent on a census. And if the minority and immigrant population want to be counted correctly, they would be required to actually file taxes.

And the people on Social Security already are counted anyway. As well as welfare recipients.

The only ones that would not be counted are the homeless. And they dont get counted very accurately anyway, IMHO.

Actually, I wonder whether all of this could be done by simple information sharing across departments in the first place. Computers have changed things in the IT world for countless other things, why not this?

[oladub]

Why would it involve changing the Constitution if a 1040 and the census form asking one question were mailed out in the same envelope once every 10 years? You might have a good idea. Why do you suggest that minorities and legal immigrants [[or did you mean illegal aliens?) are not paying taxes?

You might be pleased to find out that census information is a little more shared than generally acknowledged aleady.

Census Data Not So Confidential After All

[Stosh]

Why would it involve changing the Constitution if a 1040 and the census form asking one question were mailed out in the same envelope once every 10 years? You might have a good idea. Why do you suggest that minorities and legal immigrants [[or did you mean illegal aliens?) are not paying taxes?

You might be pleased to find out that census information is a little more shared than generally acknowledged aleady.

Census Data Not So Confidential After All

As you have said, the constitution requires the 10 year enumeration. To eliminate the census would involve removing the enumeration. Drawing statistics from IRS data is not a census.

Illegals mostly. I guess the minority label is misleading. There's plenty of people that are working "under the table" in one form or another. And really, that includes all ethnicities. And really, are illegals accurately counted in the first place anyway?

And we've been over the contents of that link a number of times already.