What can be done to stop scrappers?

[Russix]

Pay per ton refuse or sorted recyclables brought in and eliminate solid waste/yard waste collection from the Dept. of Public Works.

[eno]

scrappers are a problem yes. but most of these houses would sit for a decade empty anyway. and scrapping is putting bread on the table for the scrappers, bread they probably wouldn't otherwise have.

An equaly bad problem, but I have a hard time tolerating at all, are the "urban explorers." The majority of them are just curious and want to see abandoned historic buildings, but a minority goes into these buildings and rampages everything. The train station, for example, is ransacked. Every last window is smashed. "T R O Y" spray painted on the columns. Shit just gets broken, spray painted, smashed, stolen, etc until the building is in complete disrepair and gets slated to demolition. This has happened time and time again. Therefore, I don't really condone exploring these buildings at all. No matter who you are, unless you have explicit permission.

Scrappers usually target houses and smaller buildings, but [suburban] "urban explorers" target high-profile, historic buildings of architectural significance. The best way to protect these buildings is to require owners to secure their buildings or forfeit the title. Example of a fairly secured building: Book Tower. Example of a shoddily secured building: Cass Tech. The differences are shocking.

There are little resources to devote to stopping scrappers. We should stop the urban explorers first before they ransack every last historic building still standing.

It should happen to you.

[eno]

Rather than shooting the scrapper, why not disable their vehicle so it cannot be used to haul or getaway from the crime scene, i.e. shoot out the tires, windshield.

[Huggybear]

Star nails.

[East Detroit]

Support the local economy.

[j32885]

I see scrap trucks driving my in hood at night, when the trash is picked up every trash night for each. I usually don't see a single police car patrolling the area, and checking to see who these people are. I'm always concern about them find more items to take other than scrap metal.

The possible best solution to the scrapping problem is by issuing official state scrapping licenses/permits and enforcing the laws for possible thefts.

[casscorridor]

we also have to remember that many of the devil's night fires are set by landlords, who can profit more from their insurance policy than from maintaining a building. it has been ritual for landlords to torch their properties on devil's night or a long while now. more buildings scorched on devil's night than in the rebellion.

i want to also clarify that I do not condone scrapping, but I wouldn't just call them evil people or "just plain thieves." take into consideration the context of our *depression* economy. is it immoral to illegally scrap? perhaps. but is it more immoral to deprive people of employment, of health care, of education and of dignity? who are the real criminals here? we throw people out of their houses, and when they go to scrap for whatever is left we want to throw them in prison, when the banks get away stealing houses left and right. who are the real thieves?

[Michigan]

Scrappers serve the same purpose that vultures do n the wild. Without them we would have decaying carcasses littering the city, instead we have lovely bones, many ready to be restored.

I know a lot of you will give me grief for this stand, but I know renovators who would pay scrappers to take the crap out of their houses for them!

[1KielsonDrive]

What do you expect to be done about scrappers? In most cases, they're cold, poor, hungry people. I'd tear Cobo Hall apart for a good warm meal if I was in their shoes. Scrapping is bad all the way around, but as long as we don't address hunger, poverty and homelessness, we'll just have to deal with the consequences.

[softailrider]

What do you expect to be done about scrappers? In most cases, they're cold, poor, hungry people. I'd tear Cobo Hall apart for a good warm meal if I was in their shoes. Scrapping is bad all the way around, but as long as we don't address hunger, poverty and homelessness, we'll just have to deal with the consequences.

Not so sure about the "cold , hungry" part. I've seen plenty of scrappers in the city, they generally look pretty well fed to me. Don't remember seeing any that looked like they were starving.

[wolverine]

While on the subject, it is a felony in many places for removing any refuse from a dumpster or trash can unless authorized to do so...aka garbage pickup. For the first time, I saw a homeless dude handcuffed for digging through a dumpster. Sounds ridiculous? Not really. His search was so sloppy, a bag had broken open and some poorly shredded paper was on the ground. Could have been a bank statement.

[1KielsonDrive]

Not so sure about the "cold , hungry" part. I've seen plenty of scrappers in the city, they generally look pretty well fed to me. Don't remember seeing any that looked like they were starving.

And I'm quite sure you've seen all of them. My point, in case you missed it, was that a lot of scrapping is done by homeless and poverty stricken people. Maybe not as many as you've observed and experienced while doing your research. Without a doubt, there are persons involved in scrapping who do it for profit, aside from necessity. I'm sure any supporting evidence I present here won't sway you. I've recently experienced a couple of work sites and homes that were being scrapped by street people. In some cases, they had a roof over their heads. In some they were living on the street and in shelters. Regardless, they've developed a business in scrap to pay their bills and eat. I set down a dumpster and watched as a half dozen scrappers with various states of equipment showed up like ants at a picnic. They must've smelled the scrap - mostly metals. I hired a couple of them. They had an apartment and heat - most of the time. I was pretty amazed to see them inviting their homeless friends in to stay at their place to escape the cold. It was quite a network. They were watching out for each other. A couple of them had pick up trucks at various times. When they were running, had insurance or weren't impounded. I put them in touch with their state reps and senators when their heat was turned off. None of these people had much to their names other than what they got from scrapping. And like a lot of us - they were only one step away from being homeless, cold and hungry, again.

[Michigan]

They make a business because the market is there. The city has done about all it can to stop illegal scrapping. But really, what more can it do?

[softailrider]

They make a business because the market is there. The city has done about all it can to stop illegal scrapping. But really, what more can it do?

Ummmm, maybe actually send a police car to the scene and arrest the people who are tearing apart these houses when they get a call that it's happening?

[LodgeDodger]

scrappers are a problem yes. but most of these houses would sit for a decade empty anyway. and scrapping is putting bread on the table for the scrappers, bread they probably wouldn't otherwise have.

An equaly bad problem, but I have a hard time tolerating at all, are the "urban explorers." The majority of them are just curious and want to see abandoned historic buildings, but a minority goes into these buildings and rampages everything. The train station, for example, is ransacked. Every last window is smashed. "T R O Y" spray painted on the columns. Shit just gets broken, spray painted, smashed, stolen, etc until the building is in complete disrepair and gets slated to demolition. This has happened time and time again. Therefore, I don't really condone exploring these buildings at all. No matter who you are, unless you have explicit permission.

Scrappers usually target houses and smaller buildings, but [suburban] "urban explorers" target high-profile, historic buildings of architectural significance. The best way to protect these buildings is to require owners to secure their buildings or forfeit the title. Example of a fairly secured building: Book Tower. Example of a shoddily secured building: Cass Tech. The differences are shocking.

There are little resources to devote to stopping scrappers. We should stop the urban explorers first before they ransack every last historic building still standing.

I've just read your post in its entirety. Attitudes like yours are what keeps this city down. Because homes are sitting empty, it does not mean they are some sort of free zone allowing just anyone to tear it apart.

While working on a tour one day last spring, we stopped near the Brewster Projects to decide what to do next. We were yelled at by some aggressive scrappers who thought we were nosing into their business.

Urban explorers are breaking the law, but they're mostly idiots. Scrappers do terrible damage.

[drjeff]

They make a business because the market is there. The city has done about all it can to stop illegal scrapping. But really, what more can it do?

But what has the city done, exactly, other than put some laws on the books that they don't bother to enforce? Apparently the cops don't come if active scrapping is reported. There seem to be no penalties paid by the scrappers or the buyers of scrap materials for outright theft.

[sturge]

Like how robbing stores/banks is putting bread on the table for the robbers, bread they probably wouldn't otherwise have.

[downandouterdrive]

My friends and I were talking at Bookies the other night and we came to the conclusion that if there were more dedicated mixed use retail [[live/work) space, a lot of this could be curtailed.

[M CD M]

I drove around the Brewster projects last sunday, and it's been 6 months or so since I last drove by. And it looks like a war zone in there now. Mostly around the high rise area's. The other apartments that are 4 floors or less don't look like they have had much scrapping done on the outside, but i'm sure the insides are far worse.
Each High rise had a back up generator, and every one has been taken apart. i'm sure in a few more weeks there will be no signs of them ever being there.

[Kevgoblue]

I can't believe anyone is trying to justify scrappers. It's stealing. Plain and simple. Unfortunately stealing is the least of the problems created by scrappers. In an enviornment where many housing prices have plunged in excess of 50%, gutted homes have lost at least 75% of their values. That's impairing the ability of every other homeowner tosell their home, at a remotely reasonable rate, on the market.

Buts here's a true measure of the acceptablility of scrapping. Suppose one of these "hungry and/or homeless" people gutted a home in Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, Huntington Woods, or Northville. Would the community look at it with such a carefree attitude? My gut response says "no". Lets not embrace a reduced standard of expectations for the city.

[drjeff]

I can't believe anyone is trying to justify scrappers. It's stealing. Plain and simple. Unfortunately stealing is the least of the problems created by scrappers. In an enviornment where many housing prices have plunged in excess of 50%, gutted homes have lost at least 75% of their values. That's impairing the ability of every other homeowner tosell their home, at a remotely reasonable rate, on the market.

Buts here's a true measure of the acceptablility of scrapping. Suppose one of these "hungry and/or homeless" people gutted a home in Bloomfield Hills, Birmingham, Huntington Woods, or Northville. Would the community look at it with such a carefree attitude? My gut response says "no". Lets not embrace a reduced standard of expectations for the city.

Exactly! This is one of those things that should be a priority of the DPD. It impacts everyone.