Is Your Community Sustainable?

[Stosh]

A few months ago we had a comical debate about why suburbia is unsustainable, and some veteran posters insisted that their communities were the tops because they could walk to an Aco, Meijer, or Dairy Queen.

I thought I'd have some fun with that whole idea, considering the very real possibility of $10+ a gallon for gasoline in the foreseeable future. If you find this scenario fictitious, then you can just laugh and maybe bring yourself to having a little fun and playing along.

So, in a world with $10+ for a gallon of gas, how would your community fair? Would it still make sense to live there? Would you enjoy living there? How easy would it be to adapt? Would much adaptation be needed?

We'd have a nice one. Ferris wheels, merry go rounds, all that.

[Mikeg]

So, in a world with $10+ for a gallon of gas, how would your community fair? Would it still make sense to live there? Would you enjoy living there? How easy would it be to adapt? Would much adaptation be needed?

Be careful what you wish for.

In his small-minded view of the world, DetroitDad apparently thinks that the only effects of $10 per gallon gas would be on the pocketbooks of suburbanites.

$10 per gallon gas means $300 per barrel crude oil [source]. How much will cities have to raise taxes so they can afford to operate their vehicle fleet and still maintain the streets so that police, fire and refuse crews can provide their services and retail deliveries can be made to the local merchants you rely on? What will happen to bus fares? How will city businesses, tax-payers and residents adapt?

Too few people have any clue as to how much petroleum is involved in the raw materials, the manufacture and the delivery of the goods and services they purchase on a regular basis.

Currently, about 2/3rds of total U.S. petroleum consumption is for transportation, and about 2/3rds of that is in the form of gasoline. [source] Put another way, gasoline represents only about 45% of current petroleum consumption. So even if someone choose to not consume gasoline, they are still exposed to a majority of the upward price pressure resulting from $300 per barrel crude. Petroleum accounts for only 37% of the daily energy consumption in the US and if crude rises to $300 per barrel, it will also cause upward pressure on the costs of other energy sources.

At $300 per barrel of crude, everyone's disposable income and daily life will be radically different from what we know today, but that's OK with DetroitDad because all he wants to do is speculate on the future of suburbia.

[Hermod]

This reminds me of an incident back in 1975. I was in R&D for the military and was going from Ft Lee, VA to TACOM in Warren for a meeting My seat mate on the airplane was an employee from the Dept of Transportation in DC. He was going to a conference in Detroit about transit. We were both native Detroiters. We were discussing the recent jump in gas prices from 25 cents to 52 cents per gallon. His prediction was that in five years, everyone would abandon their cars and ride public transit. I told him that folks were too wedded to their station wagons.

[ghettopalmetto]

Currently, about 2/3rds of total U.S. petroleum consumption is for transportation, and about 2/3rds of that is in the form of gasoline. [source] Put another way, gasoline represents only about 45% of current petroleum consumption. So even if someone choose to not consume gasoline, they are still exposed to a majority of the upward price pressure resulting from $300 per barrel crude. Petroleum accounts for only 37% of the daily energy consumption in the US and if crude rises to $300 per barrel, it will also cause upward pressure on the costs of other energy sources.

If local governments didn't encourage construction of new subdivisions on perfectly good farms, then we wouldn't need all that fuel to fly our produce from California.

[johnsmith]

The only true sustainability is if we all were self sufficient and lived on farms and forest area. The rest of your suburb vs. city argument is nothing but a pissing contest.

[Retroit]

How do you live off a farm in the winter-time? People will still want fresh produce from California. Let's get real here, people!

$10+ gasoline is not going to force people to sell their homes in the suburbs and move into run-down apartment buildings in downtown Detroit [[with broken elevators!).

[Hermod]

If local governments didn't encourage construction of new subdivisions on perfectly good farms, then we wouldn't need all that fuel to fly our produce from California.

Back when I was growing up in Detroit, we didn't get produce from CA, FL, or Mexico. Refrigerators had freezer compartments big enough to hold two ice cube trays. You got awful tied of canned fruits and vegetables by February.

To this day, the thought of eating canned peas makes me sick.

[slick]

How do you live off a farm in the winter-time? People will still want fresh produce from California. Let's get real here, people!

$10+ gasoline is not going to force people to sell their homes in the suburbs and move into run-down apartment buildings in downtown Detroit [[with broken elevators!).

Retroit,

Yes lets get real. If people moved from the burbs to downtown, that would force the owners to fix the elevators and they would probably have the cash flow to handle that expense.

People have been living off the farms, winter and summer for hundreds of years.
We were a lot more independent and sustainable. No big box stores, went to town a few times a year for necessary supplies. Flour, salt, sugar, everythings else you grew and put up for the winter.

Think nucelar holocause and mad max somehow humans survive.