A National Disgrace: Documentary on Detroit Public Schools

[Hypestyles]

Dan Rather heads up a documentary in his ongoing series of specials produced with HDNet, on the state of the Detroit Public Schools.. it's supposed to repeat several times this week, and on Itunes, AT&T, DirecTV, DishNetwork.. but not on Comcast [[arghh!)

some preview clips-
http://tinyurl.com/63tpxrx

http://www.hd.net/programs/danrather/
..based on the preview clips shown, Rather and company must have gotten started at least a year or so ago.. they include interview footage with Otis Mathis and "reverend" David Murray..

[SWMAP]

Reverend is Murray's legal first name. He had it legally changed and it doesn't necessarily signify that he is a minister - although he does claim that,too.
He just knew it would get a lot of votes in the city of detroit and a lot of respect if he could use Reverend in front of his other names. That's the kind of leaders wehave - really bogus.

[maxx]

Reverend is Murray's legal first name. He had it legally changed and it doesn't necessarily signify that he is a minister - although he does claim that,too.
He just knew it would get a lot of votes in the city of detroit and a lot of respect if he could use Reverend in front of his other names. That's the kind of leaders wehave - really bogus.

He should be addressed as Mr. Reverend Murray then.

Does Rather extend the responsibility for a child's educational success to parents and families at all?

[artds]

Reverend is Murray's legal first name. He had it legally changed and it doesn't necessarily signify that he is a minister - although he does claim that,too.
He just knew it would get a lot of votes in the city of detroit and a lot of respect if he could use Reverend in front of his other names. That's the kind of leaders wehave - really bogus.

to be fair, if detroiters would vote for someone just because the have "reverend" in front of their name, then the electorate is just as bogus. That really says a lot about the people who are putting these "leaders" into office.

[stromberg2]

That guy is really........off. I speak of the good Rev.

Stromberg2

[gnome]

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

[Hypestyles]

whoever gets to see this, let us know.. wish it was across all cable formats..

[English]

^ Agreed. It was on Comcast's HDNet channel. Well, I don't have HD TV, and don't subscribe to that channel. Surprised that none of the major networks have picked this up... yet.

[wilderness]

On iTunes for $1.99

Rather; A National Disgrace

[majohnson]

http://detnews.com/article/20110515/...Public-Schools

Detroit News columnist Nolan Finley saids DPS should be dismantled.
"DPS can't be saved. It pushed beyond the tipping point years ago, and must be allowed to slide into oblivion."

[professorscott]

Fascinating article. I'm astonished it took so many hours for someone on DY to start a thread about it. I'm not going to comment yet; I'm curious to see what, if anything, others post.

[Wesley Mouch]

Fascinating article. I'm astonished it took so many hours for someone on DY to start a thread about it. I'm not going to comment yet; I'm curious to see what, if anything, others post.

Am also surprised no immediate reaction to Mr. Finley.

What do I think?

Do what's best for the kids.

The future of our city depends on education for its residents. I'm in favor of good education. Everything else doesn't matter.

[SWMAP]

The Free Press' Steven Henderson said the very same thing last Sunday, but as if it is widely accepted on some civic level: dismantle DPS and create a "constellation" of smaller districts. I agree that this is the only solution to the problem of a huge money-machine now being operated as a patronage enterprise. Reduce the money available to any one "district" thru the mechanism of having several, and increase scrutiny and local accountabilty.

[oldredfordette]

Union busting class war. And Nolan is for it???? Shocking.

[iheartthed]

Not sure what he's smoking if he thinks charter schools will be any more accountable to parents than the current school system.

[bartock]

Union busting class war. And Nolan is for it???? Shocking.

Dismantling DPS = Union busting class war? What an utterly ridiculous statement. The union will bust itself as the DPS continues to bleed out students to [[mostly) other public school districts WITH UNION EMPLOYEES.

Is status quo working? Somehow, "send more money, just don't tell us what to do with it" is better off in the hands of administrators who steal it or have no idea what to do with it than it might be in the hands of others who might end up being more accountable?

Although the rhetoric may sound cool, at this point it is just lazy to suggest some grand conspiracy theory with respect to any other idea [[recipe: pick anyone who is not politically left of the left, toss out something about "corporate buddies" getting rich and "class warfare" as though it means something, ignore corruption and other existing problems...rinse and repeat for 40 years).

[coracle]

Union busting class war. And Nolan is for it???? Shocking.

i agree with you; the Public Union Class must be irrevocablly defeated so that we can spend our money for the benefit of the pupils and not for political card carrying members to reward themselves
for failure.

[Bham1982]

i agree with you; the Public Union Class must be irrevocablly defeated so that we can spend our money for the benefit of the pupils and not for political card carrying members to reward themselves for failure.

Eh, I'm no union supporter, but you really think unions are the primary problem with DPS?

I mean, suburban schools are all unionized, with even cushier salaries/benefits. And unionized DPS had better public schools than the suburbs before the 60's, so much that Grosse Pointe South [[formerly GP High) almost became part of DPS.

Do you really think that students would benefit if we broke the unions? I'm not getting the causal relationships here.

If we believe that teachers can make a difference in student performance, we should strive for better pay and benefits, since DPS is in competition with everyone else for teaching talent.

[Wesley Mouch]

Eh, I'm no union supporter, but you really think unions are the primary problem with DPS?

I mean, suburban schools are all unionized, with even cushier salaries/benefits. And unionized DPS had better public schools than the suburbs before the 60's, so much that Grosse Pointe South [[formerly GP High) almost became part of DPS.

Do you really think that students would benefit if we broke the unions? I'm not getting the causal relationships here.

If we believe that teachers can make a difference in student performance, we should strive for better pay and benefits, since DPS is in competition with everyone else for teaching talent.

If you are thinking that it has to do with pay, you're on the wrong track. It has to do with control.

from the ever-accurate and teacher loved Wikipedia on Michelle Rhee...

In 2008, she also sought to renegotiate how the school system compensates teachers. Rhee offered teachers the choice of: being paid up to $140,000 based on what she termed "student achievement"[vague] by losing tenure or earning much smaller pay raises by retaining tenure. Teachers and the teachers union rejected the proposal, contesting that some form of tenure was necessary to protect against arbitrary, political, or wrongful termination of employment.

Notice that money doesn't trump power.

I'd also suggest you read about Green Dot schools. Read this joint Green Dot /SEIU / Parents report...

“Steve Barr noticed that at one of Green Dots’ high schools, a large proportion of students has parents who were members of Local 1877 of the Service Employees International Union [[SEIU). From this observation, a partnership evolved between Green Dot and SEIU’s national organization, as well as its Los Angeles affiliate. While most professional unions have opposed charter schools, SEIU has embraced LAPU’s reform agenda because their members’ children are the main victims of failing urban schools. For almost a year, SEIU has formally worked with Green Dot and LAPU, providing LAPU with both funding and technical assistance from experienced organizers. In turn, SEIU is interested in exploring how Green Dot’s model and LAPU’s organizing efforts can drive school reform in other urban districts across the country.”

To sum up, what innovators and reformers don't like about Unions is not pay-related. Its the design of the collective bargaining process that restricts management's ability to make changes to practices and procedures. It all about power.

[oldredfordette]

He knows it, he just wants his friends to make money on for-profit schools.

[Bham1982]

The problem is that Detroit charter schools don't have better outcomes than DPS.

I'm not anti-charter, and I'm definitely not pro-DPS, but the charter school test results are very, very discouraging.

The problem, obviously, is much bigger than DPS, and I don't think elimination of the DPS boogeyman necessarily reduces the problem.

[iheartthed]

The problem is that Detroit charter schools don't have better outcomes than DPS.

I'm not anti-charter, and I'm definitely not pro-DPS, but the charter school test results are very, very discouraging.

The problem, obviously, is much bigger than DPS, and I don't think elimination of the DPS boogeyman necessarily reduces the problem.

Exactly. And Finley is smoking something if he honestly believes that charter schools will be the panacea.

[Wesley Mouch]

The problem is that Detroit charter schools don't have better outcomes than DPS.

I'm not anti-charter, and I'm definitely not pro-DPS, but the charter school test results are very, very discouraging.

The problem, obviously, is much bigger than DPS, and I don't think elimination of the DPS boogeyman necessarily reduces the problem.

I think you are missing two points....

1) It may be true that the charter outcomes haven't been better than DPS*. But the existence of charters has encouraged the status-quo districts and teacher guilds to accept some innovation. This has likely been good for all students

2) Individual results may vary. Charters allow easier innovation. If the results are indeed the same*, there may be more excellent outcomes, and more miserable outcomes, averaging out to not much different. Its not always the average that's the best measurement.

* I'd like to see a good reference on this 'no better outcome'. Its used frequently, and seems to be gospel to those who it soothes, but I think the truth is a bit more nuanced.

[maxx]

I think you are missing two points....

1) It may be true that the charter outcomes haven't been better than DPS*. But the existence of charters has encouraged the status-quo districts and teacher guilds to accept some innovation. This has likely been good for all students

2) Individual results may vary. Charters allow easier innovation. If the results are indeed the same*, there may be more excellent outcomes, and more miserable outcomes, averaging out to not much different. Its not always the average that's the best measurement.

What innovations are you referring to?

[Wesley Mouch]

What innovations are you referring to?

I should have said 'changes'. Some changes will be innovations, some will be stupidity & failures. But new ideas in every and all areas should be possible. The current oligopoly [[School Boards / Teacher's Unions) doesn't have all the answers.

Do they have some good answers. Yes. Of course. Successes in public education should be celebrated. But that doesn't justify it being a monopoly on power. Schools most obviously need the freedom to be creative, innovative, and able to try things that might fail -- or succeed -- without being stopped by the status quo.

Students first. Everyone else doesn't matter. Good teachers will survive. Good administrators will survive.