Sears Holdings looking to leave Illinois

**tkelly1986** · May-09-11, 05:17 PM

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chibrkbus-sears-considering-move-from-hoffman-estates-20110509,0,3546294.story

I know there are a variety of issues at play, but we never see Michigan listed as a “poacher” state. The usual suspects are here, however, Texas, New Jersey, the Carolinas ect…My question is; why? Michigan has an educated workforce, employable people [[because they’re currently out of work), a mid-range corporate tax base and a city in dire need for jobs. I am not saying Detroit should be rolling out the red carpet/tax breaks in this specific case, but why does Detroit always seem asleep at the wheel when major companies are looking to relocate? Heck, other states sure know when Detroit firms are looking to move [[Texas/Comerica).....I'm just looking for Detroit to be mentioned for once.

DetroitPole · May-09-11, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by tkelly1986

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chibrkbus-sears-considering-move-from-hoffman-estates-20110509,0,3546294.story

I know there are a variety of issues at play, but we never see Michigan listed as a “poacher” state. The usual suspects are here, however, Texas, New Jersey, the Carolinas ect…My question is; why? Michigan has an educated workforce, employable people [[because they’re currently out of work), a mid-range corporate tax base and a city in dire need for jobs. I am not saying Detroit should be rolling out the red carpet/tax breaks in this specific case, but why does Detroit always seem asleep at the wheel when major companies are looking to relocate? Heck, other states sure know when Detroit firms are looking to move [[Texas/Comerica).....I'm just looking for Detroit to be mentioned for once.

Here is the thing - who told you Michigan has an educated workforce?
http://staff.lib.msu.edu/matthe20/litfact.htm

Employable people? You have a shit ton of people who know how to operate on an assembly line and nothing else. Then you have a shit ton of people who know how to do absolutely nothing.

Here is another one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_858307.html

"Additionally, the report finds, one in three workers in the state of Michigan lack the skills or credentials to pursue additional education beyond high school."

"roughly 47 percent of adults in Detroit, Michigan -- 200,000 total -- are functionally illiterate,"

So according to our fearless leader to solve this we need to...cut education funding and cut taxes to businesses?

The fact is you can't pay these companies enough to relocate to a state where all most people know how to do is fuck and fight.

**Detroitej72** · May-09-11, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by DetroitPole

"Additionally, the report finds, one in three workers in the state of Michigan lack the skills or credentials to pursue additional education beyond high school."

That means two-thirds of the state is educated and/ or with a college degree, which is a strong majority of the population. Don't try to make it sound all doom and gloom.

**fryar** · May-09-11, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

That means two-thirds of the state is educated and/ or with a college degree, which is a strong majority of the population. Don't try to make it sound all doom and gloom.

They said 2/3 had the "skills or credentials to pursue additional education beyond high school." That tells me 2/3 of Michiganders have a HS diploma or GED or could if they so chose.

The statistics I have encountered have not been in Michigan's favor. I don't work in this area or anything, so I only encounter statistics about this from time to time and very casually. For example, here is an article stating that "A new report shows 2010 ACT scores in Michigan average about 19.7 compared to the national average of 21.1." So Michigan is below average. Now there may be an explanation for this statistic, but it first glance it does seem pretty doom and gloomy, as it were.

One explanation might be that Michigan is "pushier" about taking the ACT than other states, because demanding of students who will never go to college that they take the ACT is seen to be an encouraging gesture, say. But the first impression one gets is of a state that, considering the prestigious publicly funded universities it can boast, is mind-numbingly undereducated.

It also reflects highly on Flint that the local ABC affiliate feels compelled to explain that the ACT is "a test that helps determine how high school students will perform in college," but I'll take my sarcastic cheap shots elsewhere going forward.

Oh well. There's always Mississippi.

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 08:04 PM

Sears Holdings shouldn't be in Illinois, but it really has no business in Michigan either.

Sears Holdings is, first and foremost, an apparel firm. Apparel companies, and those that sell soft goods, tend to be in the greater NY area, for access to the fashion industry, importers/exporters and private capital.

So the NJ option probably makes the most sense, especially if top management is already based in NY-NJ-CT.

lilpup · May-09-11, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Sears Holdings shouldn't be in Illinois, but it really has no business in Michigan either.

Sears Holdings is, first and foremost, an apparel firm. Apparel companies, and those that sell soft goods, tend to be in the greater NY area, for access to the fashion industry, importers/exporters and private capital.

So the NJ option probably makes the most sense, especially if top management is already based in NY-NJ-CT.

There's no need for the business headquarters to be there - buyers and a few other agents, yes, but not the headquarters.

**Meddle** · May-10-11, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Sears Holdings is, first and foremost, an apparel firm. Apparel companies, and those that sell soft goods, ....

Does that mean my Craftsman tools aren't properly dressed for this season?

**old guy** · May-10-11, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Sears Holdings shouldn't be in Illinois, .

Other than possibly the small fact that it was founded in Chicago in 1886.

**English** · May-09-11, 08:14 PM

Originally Posted by fryar

The statistics I have encountered have not been in Michigan's favor. I don't work in this area or anything, so I only encounter statistics about this from time to time and very casually. For example, here is an article stating that "A new report shows 2010 ACT scores in Michigan average about 19.7 compared to the national average of 21.1." So Michigan is below average. Now there may be an explanation for this statistic, but it first glance it does seem pretty doom and gloomy, as it were.

One explanation might be that Michigan is "pushier" about taking the ACT than other states, because demanding of students who will never go to college that they take the ACT is seen to be an encouraging gesture, say. But the first impression one gets is of a state that, considering the prestigious publicly funded universities it can boast, is mind-numbingly undereducated.

It also reflects highly on Flint that the local ABC affiliate feels compelled to explain that the ACT is "a test that helps determine how high school students will perform in college," but I'll take my sarcastic cheap shots elsewhere going forward.

The standardized exam for all Michigan high school students is the ACT:

http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7...150---,00.html

This is not the case in most states. Therefore, you are correct.

**fryar** · May-09-11, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by English

The standardized exam for all Michigan high school students is the ACT:
http://www.michigan.gov/mde/0,1607,7...150---,00.html
This is not the case in most states. Therefore, you are correct.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Here's a map from Wikipedia showing [[or purporting to show) the states in which each of the tests dominates:
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It's not a small sample.

lilpup · May-09-11, 06:51 PM

Ann Arbor would be a great place for them. Borders' headquarters building is for sale for a scant $10 mil and there are plenty of educated people around.

**Detroitej72** · May-09-11, 06:59 PM

I will shed no tears for Illinois if they loose Sears. I'm sure they couldn't have cared less when Lambert closed the Kmart HQ and moved operations there, turn about is fair play.

**iheartthed** · May-09-11, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitej72

I will shed no tears for Illinois if they loose Sears. I'm sure they couldn't have cared less when Lambert closed the Kmart HQ and moved operations there, turn about is fair play.

Yeah, K Mart bought Sears and then moved the entire company to Hoffman Estates, which was the Sears Roebuck HQ. But if they're looking to leave Illinois I hear there is some space in Troy that's still available. It should feel pretty familiar to them......

**Parkguy** · May-09-11, 09:01 PM

The famous study cited in "City" back in the '70s said it all: regardless of the reasons they give, when companies move their headquarters, the new location is, on average, within five miles of the CEO's home. I have no reason to think that it is any different now.

**Packman41** · May-09-11, 09:28 PM

As DetroitPole said, "Who told you Michigan has an educated work force?"

According to Data Driven Detroit in an article published October 2010 Michigan ranked 37th out of 50 states in educational achievement. Here is a segment of the article:

"Michigan's hemorrhaging of prosperity has little to do with the devastation of the domestic automobile industry, and a lot to do with our failure to prepare for that inevitability.

It's not about economics, it's about education.

"It's totally an education story," says Kurt Metzger, director of Data Driven Detroit. "Michigan could have weathered the economic collapse with a better-educated work force."

Instead, the state is paying the price for not investing its past good fortune getting more of its people to college. A new U.S. Census report finds Michigan lost more than 21 percent of its household income over the past decade, the largest drop in the nation, and its poverty rate rose faster than any other state. Michigan is now in the bottom quarter of states in per-capita income, a bleak reversal from 1970, when we ranked 13th.

The realignment of wealth places Michigan exactly where it belongs in the New Economy.

We cheated our fate for decades with the help of unionized manufacturing jobs that provided fat paychecks for low skills. It was a false universe that had Michigan entering the new century ranked 16th in household income, while standing at 30th in the percentage of its adult residents with at least a bachelor's degree.

Ten years later, Michigan ranks 36th in household income and 37th in educational attainment. In a world that values brains far more than brawn, there's nothing unfair about what's happened to us.

Nearly all of the top 10 states in terms of income are also in the top 10 in education."

**BrushStart** · May-09-11, 10:35 PM

I know people will jump all over me for this, but ROLL OUT THE RED CARPET. Screw the stats- they can be spun in all directions by anyone with half a brain. Poach, poach, poach, and poach some more. While luring big companies is not going save the state or the city, it might bring along a few Dan Gilbert-types who might decide throw some money at this town. It's also a catalyst for spin off businesses and suppliers, will bring some new residents to the state, and will help convince other companies that Detroit, Michigan is a good place to set up shop.

**professorscott** · May-09-11, 10:41 PM

A company like Sears Holdings is just a corporate HQ, so they don't need to recruit a workforce; it's not like a factory. They bring with them whom they need, a combination of high paid executive and management types. The rest - secretaries, janitors, computer geeks - they can recruit with no problem anywhere. So they locate where the higher-ups want to live.

Now, the problem is, why isn't Michigan a place where executive types want to live? We are talking a combination of problems here, and one not easy to solve. But the point is you can't become a corp HQ "poacher" by deciding to be one. You need to have the quality of life, the amenities. And we don't. Look at that letter from the Troy law firm exec who can't PAY people to live here.

lilpup · May-09-11, 11:10 PM

If you can't cut it in NYC you can't cut it anywhere. The Midwest is notoriously more competitive than other places.

**Gistok** · May-10-11, 12:46 AM

Interestingly enough the Ameritech HQ were in posh suburban Hoffman Estates [[where Sear's/Kmart is/was).

When Ameritech was purchased by SBC [[of San Antonio) it was another blow to Hoffman Estates Illinois. Then SBC bought up AT&T and used the AT&T nameplate, but the Basking Ridge NJ At&T HQ became just like the Ameritech Hoffman Estates HQ.... redundant...

**East Detroit** · May-10-11, 05:33 AM

The Sears/KMart technical jobs [[IT systems programmers, database admins, etc) are still in Michigan in the Troy data center location [[next to the old Kmart HQ). Generic finance and other types are the ones in Hoffman Estates.

**coracle** · May-10-11, 02:11 PM

Caterpillar has also been looking at the possibility of leaving Illinois to escape the confiscatory tax levels the State imposes on businesses. Left leaning States like Illinois punish their businesses until they start leaving then blame it on States that offer "tax incentives". Illinois - it's their own stupid fault businesses want to leave.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-10-11, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

Caterpillar has also been looking at the possibility of leaving Illinois to escape the confiscatory tax levels the State imposes on businesses. Left leaning States like Illinois punish their businesses until they start leaving then blame it on States that offer "tax incentives". Illinois - it's their own stupid fault businesses want to leave.

Yes, taxes are everything, which is why Mississippi is the economic development Center of the Universe.

Did you ever stop to think that some states pursue economic development without whoring their workers like cheap Third World prostitutes? States like Illinois can have a reasonable degree of confidence that the education and talent of their workers is high, and that employers will pay a premium for quality workers and a high standard of living.

You get what you pay for. If I were Illinois, I'd say, "Fine. Leave. Just *try* to do as well somewhere else as you've been doing here. We'll see you again when your tax breaks run out."

**oladub** · May-10-11, 04:51 PM

GP, Boeing wanted to locate a factory in your state but the Obama administration jumped in and prevented Boeing from creating jobs in South Carolina. There is always China I guess. I don't remember the Obama administration barring US companies from creating jobs in China. But you are a non-union state; bad, bad. China is our banker.

**ghettopalmetto** · May-10-11, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by oladub

GP, Boeing wanted to locate a factory in your state but the Obama administration jumped in and prevented Boeing from creating jobs in South Carolina. There is always China I guess. I don't remember the Obama administration barring US companies from creating jobs in China. But you are a non-union state; bad, bad. China is our banker.

That's because South Carolina, like most other Southern states, sees cheap, expendable labor as its only redeemable asset and whored its workers to Boeing for millions of dollars of public subsidies. The legal issue of which you speak is not the relocation itself, per se, but our illustrious governor's publicly-stated commitment to union busting on behalf of Boeing. That, my friend, is hardly "free market" and reeks of fascism.

I don't know about you, but we certainly don't need government proactively working against its own peoples' right to free association or desire to earn a decent living wage.

**bailey** · May-11-11, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

That's because South Carolina, like most other Southern states, sees cheap, expendable labor as its only redeemable asset and whored its workers to Boeing for millions of dollars of public subsidies. The legal issue of which you speak is not the relocation itself, per se, but our illustrious governor's publicly-stated commitment to union busting on behalf of Boeing. That, my friend, is hardly "free market" and reeks of fascism.

I don't know about you, but we certainly don't need government proactively working against its own peoples' right to free association or desire to earn a decent living wage.

Don't disagree with that mostly....however, the right to freely associate should also come with the right to NOT associate if one so chooses. Right?