Recent crime wave downtown and near downtown

**stasu1213** · May-23-11, 07:40 PM

It is sad when one non-thinking individual could ruin it for everyone else. I am glad that the police had caught him. I don't want to hear Charles Pugh say "Crime happens everywhere". I was down at the riverfront this evening around 7pm. Security was tight and there weren't many people down at the riverwalk. I wonder what is the game plan for GM who reported saying that their tolerance had ran out. The city council should not lay off police and EMS workers but should hire more. Bing has to stop being passive a get tough on this crime. Untie the hands of the police and let them operate downtown like an occupying army but go after the persons really causing the trouble. Where is Warren Evans when we needed him most

agrahlma · May-23-11, 08:13 PM

With approximately $500 million sunk into the RenCen, I’m sure GM’s tolerance is very high – even higher when they consider the millions more it would take to leave Detroit. Not to say that it wouldn’t/couldn’t happen, but I doubt it. I will say that Sunday’s riverfront shooting has me wondering if I made a mistake moving to Detroit. I don’t know if Detroit can ever shake the thug life culture – the city might be too far gone. I just don’t get it.

**English** · May-23-11, 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by agrahlma

With approximately $500 million sunk into the RenCen, I’m sure GM’s tolerance is very high – even higher when they consider the millions more it would take to leave Detroit. Not to say that it wouldn’t/couldn’t happen, but I doubt it. I will say that Sunday’s riverfront shooting has me wondering if I made a mistake moving to Detroit. I don’t know if Detroit can ever shake the thug life culture – the city might be too far gone. I just don’t get it.

I moved back to Detroit a few weeks ago and live in the East Riverfront district. Sunday's shooting made me feel the same way. But please don't give up on the city.

The Riverwalk should start enforcing curfews. When we were walking home after 9 pm Sunday, we saw quite a few groups of young kids. What on earth are they doing out so late on a Sunday evening? School is still in session. I know that the city has curfews, but this is an international border. With private security, Border Patrol, and the DPD, round up those kids & send 'em to that gym at 1300 Beaubien for parent pickup [[with fine). We need to be serious about zero tolerance policies.

**Zacha341** · May-23-11, 11:59 PM

Curfews must start, and start now behind this! Who wants to put up with this just have a bit of fun by the river minding your business. You go over to Windsor and even with their younger drinking age and the problems associated with that, there are less bands of kids on the loose. Their riverfront has less problems and is well policed. If this is how the spring is going in downtown Detroit etc., then summer is going to be really rough.

Originally Posted by English

I moved back to Detroit a few weeks ago and live in the East Riverfront district. Sunday's shooting made me feel the same way. But please don't give up on the city.

The Riverwalk should start enforcing curfews. When we were walking home after 9 pm Sunday, we saw quite a few groups of young kids. What on earth are they doing out so late on a Sunday evening? School is still in session. I know that the city has curfews, but this is an international border. With private security, Border Patrol, and the DPD, round up those kids & send 'em to that gym at 1300 Beaubien for parent pickup [[with fine). We need to be serious about zero tolerance policies.

agrahlma · May-24-11, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by English

I moved back to Detroit a few weeks ago and live in the East Riverfront district. Sunday's shooting made me feel the same way. But please don't give up on the city.

The Riverwalk should start enforcing curfews. When we were walking home after 9 pm Sunday, we saw quite a few groups of young kids. What on earth are they doing out so late on a Sunday evening? School is still in session. I know that the city has curfews, but this is an international border. With private security, Border Patrol, and the DPD, round up those kids & send 'em to that gym at 1300 Beaubien for parent pickup [[with fine). We need to be serious about zero tolerance policies.

I love Detroit too much to give-up now - I've lived in [[or just outside) the city for most of my life. Its just so f 'ing frustrating to see this kind of thing happen - particularly in an area like the riverfront, which is [[or should) be for families. Ahhhhhh!!

I agree, a curfew is probably in order.

**guito13** · May-24-11, 08:21 AM

For what its worth here is an email from the ren-cen management, sounds like there were 2 shootings on Sunday:

Renaissance Center Security Update – May 23, 2011

Two separate non-fatal shootings occurred during the evening of Sunday, May 22, in public areas
outside of the Renaissance Center Complex. The suspects were apprehended and arrested.
Renaissance Center Security is cooperating with local law enforcement agencies regarding their
ongoing investigations and proactively engaging their continued support.

The safety of all of our tenants remains our top priority. We will continue to monitor our security
protocols and appropriately increase security levels to ensure a safe and secure environment for
all tenants and visitors. We will keep you informed of any changes.

**SWMAP** · May-24-11, 08:58 AM

Since, as Joesmithrocks points out, there is already a 10:00 PM closing on the River Walk and it is strictly enforced, which is a de facto curfew for the teens, what is the next solution in line?

**iheartthed** · May-24-11, 09:15 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Since, as Joesmithrocks points out, there is already a 10:00 PM closing on the River Walk and it is strictly enforced, which is a de facto curfew for the teens, what is the next solution in line?

Is there a continuous police presence on the Riverwalk during high traffic times? That would be a good next step...

**Bham1982** · May-24-11, 09:25 AM

How do the young ruffians get there?

Do they drive together, and drop $10 in one of the local lots?

Or are they taking D-DOT downtown?

If they're taking the bus, maybe have a greater police presence at the terminal. If they're driving, maybe work with local lot operators and monitor the parking.

Make it clear that large groups without a specific purpose aren't welcome.

**iheartthed** · May-24-11, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Make it clear that large groups without a specific purpose aren't welcome.

How would you do that in a public space?

agrahlma · May-24-11, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by guito13

For what its worth here is an email from the ren-cen management, sounds like there were 2 shootings on Sunday:

Renaissance Center Security Update – May 23, 2011

Two separate non-fatal shootings occurred during the evening of Sunday, May 22, in public areas
outside of the Renaissance Center Complex. The suspects were apprehended and arrested.
Renaissance Center Security is cooperating with local law enforcement agencies regarding their
ongoing investigations and proactively engaging their continued support.

The safety of all of our tenants remains our top priority. We will continue to monitor our security
protocols and appropriately increase security levels to ensure a safe and secure environment for
all tenants and visitors. We will keep you informed of any changes.

I found this on a crime mapping site - 2 shootings...

5/22
8:50:00 PM AGG/FEL ASSAULT - NON-FAMILY - GUN ATWATER/ BEAUBIEN

5/22
7:20:00 PM AGG/FEL ASSAULT - NON-FAMILY - GUN E. JEFFERSON/ RIOPELLE

**Bham1982** · May-24-11, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

How would you do that in a public space?

Heavy police presence, asking groups where they're going, and asking loiterers to move on.

I don't think teens will hang out if the cops and security are actively engaging them.

**bailey** · May-24-11, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Heavy police presence, asking groups where they're going, and asking loiterers to move on.

I don't think teens will hang out if the cops and security are actively engaging them.

how does one decide who is a loiterer in a place designed to be loitered in? must every person, man, woman or child, be constantly in motion? can they stop to have a sandwich, but must move immediately upon finishing? can you not just sit by the water and zone out?

**iheartthed** · May-24-11, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Heavy police presence, asking groups where they're going, and asking loiterers to move on.

I don't think teens will hang out if the cops and security are actively engaging them.

That's illegal.

**joesmithrocks** · May-24-11, 10:10 AM

Wow, thanks everyone for the updates and information. I didn't know about the incident at Riopelle. And that doesn't make me feel any better.

I'm right here with you English and agrahlma. I've been here a year and half. And I'm not sure if I'm going to stay. I do love this city. I want to be a part of it. But I don't know. Since I've moved downtown, things have been pretty great. After that tragic weekend last spring when that 17-year-old kid got killed at the party store on the east side, and then the cops accidentally killed Aiyana Jones going after the killer, things didn't look good for the summer. Bing even made a statement saying he feared the hotter weather. You could feel the tension in the air. It was everywhere for a couple weeks. But then it calmed down. The fears of more violence never materialized downtown. I know it's always rough in the neighborhoods. But downtown was very calm last summer.

People who've been around longer than me tell me this is definitely a wave of crime we're in right now. But they act like the calm last summer was what was special - that violence like we're experiencing now is closer to normal.

I don't know. I don't want to give up on the city. But I don't want to catch a stray bullet either. A shooting by the sprinklers on a packed Sunday evening is too much to ignore.

**Bham1982** · May-24-11, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

That's illegal.

Loitering is legal in Detroit? I doubt it.

I would imagine the police have legal means to remove folks from a given space, whether it's anti-loitering, blocking public movement, disturbing the peace, etc.

But I think the presence alone would be enough. I don't think the Riverwalk would be too fun for acting out if cops are everywhere.

**iheartthed** · May-24-11, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Loitering is legal in Detroit? I doubt it.

I would imagine the police have legal means to remove folks from a given space, whether it's anti-loitering, blocking public movement, disturbing the peace, etc.

But I think the presence alone would be enough. I don't think the Riverwalk would be too fun for acting out if cops are everywhere.

I agree on the last part. But singling out and questioning citizens based on a profile and questioning them without just cause is illegal. And how do you enforce loitering on a public space like that? Who determines what is and isn't a good reason to be there? It's not like a mall or a train station...

**SWMAP** · May-24-11, 10:32 AM

Okay, but both Brushstart and Joesmithrocks report that there was extensive law enforcement observable on Saturday evening. Joesmithrocks said "huge" and brushstart wrote:
As far as police presence on Riverwalk, on Saturday, the police/security presence was heavy. I saw at least 4 Wayne County Sheriffs, probably 2-3 security officers, who have arrest power, and about 3-4 security patrols on bikes. They were sprinkled between the RenCen and Miliken Park and were being pretty proactive in confronting people who were acting up.'

So is the answer more police presence- and where would they come from?

How about this: the Mosquito Deters Loitering Kids:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...n_n_98304.html

**iheartthed** · May-24-11, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by SWMAP

Okay, but both Brushstart and Joesmithrocks report that there was extensive law enforcement observable on Saturday evening. Joesmithrocks said "huge" and brushstart wrote:
As far as police presence on Riverwalk, on Saturday, the police/security presence was heavy. I saw at least 4 Wayne County Sheriffs, probably 2-3 security officers, who have arrest power, and about 3-4 security patrols on bikes. They were sprinkled between the RenCen and Miliken Park and were being pretty proactive in confronting people who were acting up.'

So is the answer more police presence- and where would they come from?

How about this: the Mosquito Deters Loitering Kids:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...n_n_98304.html

Well, I wasn't there so I can't compare my definition of "heavy police presence" with BrushStart or Joesmithrocks... But that doesn't sound heavy to me. Granted, I've spent the last few years living and working in the world's number one terror target. But if you have hundreds of people strolling a high profile public space then I'd expect dozens of law enforcement officials visible. So let's say there were five dozen uniformed officers assigned to the Riverwalk last Saturday over the 5.5 mile stretch. That works out to an average of about a dozen every mile [[rounding down to just 5 miles), or 3 officers for ever quarter mile. So theoretically, a citizen would be able to stand at any point on the Riverwalk and be within site of at least 6 uniformed officers, because you're never more than 660 feet [[.125 miles) away from them in either direction.

**English** · May-24-11, 11:02 AM

There's a fine line between "overpoliced" and "feels safe -- wayward teens/bad adults will think twice before pulling anything."

Has the DPD or the Riverwalk Conservancy talked to other cities with waterfront walkways to figure out how they're policed? Let's chat with Chicago about how they secure Navy Pier, etc...

**Bham1982** · May-24-11, 11:08 AM

Maybe pipe in classical music. That has worked in some public gathering places.

No self-respecting teenager wants to hang out with Mozart and Mendelssohn.

Or figure out the corniest possible activities [[ask younger folks who know DPS) and promote them at the Riverwalk. Square-Dancing Saturdays, or whatever.

**SWMAP** · May-24-11, 11:15 AM

That's it! More Klompen Dancing in Detroit. certainly Klomen Dancing is why Holland MI is so safe and tidy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=objEFFAgJao&NR=1

**English** · May-24-11, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

Maybe pipe in classical music. That has worked in some public gathering places.

No self-respecting teenager wants to hang out with Mozart and Mendelssohn.

Or figure out the corniest possible activities [[ask younger folks who know DPS) and promote them at the Riverwalk. Square-Dancing Saturdays, or whatever.

This year's River Days features square dancing, or so I heard. Fun!

**English** · May-24-11, 03:24 PM

BTW, new update: one of my Spring term students was violently assaulted Saturday night as she left work. She just left my office -- it was a brutal, vicious attack. She is visibly patched back together and on strong pain medication.

This was in downtown Detroit. I'll find out where, but for now, I sent her home to recover. I am so angry right now I could spit NAILS. She is a young, beautiful, brilliant woman working hard on her degree, a single mom with two jobs. Her life nearly ended Saturday night because of this DAMN city.

agrahlma · May-25-11, 07:28 AM

Originally Posted by English

BTW, new update: one of my Spring term students was violently assaulted Saturday night as she left work. She just left my office -- it was a brutal, vicious attack. She is visibly patched back together and on strong pain medication.

This was in downtown Detroit. I'll find out where, but for now, I sent her home to recover. I am so angry right now I could spit NAILS. She is a young, beautiful, brilliant woman working hard on her degree, a single mom with two jobs. Her life nearly ended Saturday night because of this DAMN city.

That's absolutely terrible!!! Besides the physical recovery, now this innocent woman has to deal with a potentially long psychological recovery. It's unfair that some monster can simply change YOUR life when THEY decide its time. Please let us know when they catch this f 'ing idiot!