Recent crime wave downtown and near downtown

lilpup · May-09-11, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

Other than the fact that the clubs are downtown and the people with guns were in the clubs I guess you're right. What do you mean it has nothing to do with downtown? If downtown is attracting that type of person then it's a big problem and the city needs to deal with it.

The city will never deal with the clubs, the strip clubs, or the excess of liquor stores in the city because those are all "viable businesses", yet other cities do just fine without them. You reap what you sow.

lilpup · May-09-11, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

Sure, they'd lift a finger if what they want to do was made legal...they'd clean up a lot of shit fast.

Remember, a lot of suburbanites now are those who recently left the city. Many know who and where the problems are and would love to be able to wild west in their old neighborhoods.

**softailrider** · May-09-11, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

The city will never deal with the clubs, the strip clubs, or the excess of liquor stores in the city because those are all "viable businesses", yet other cities do just fine without them. You reap what you sow.

I don't hear much about violence or shootings at the strip clubs. That being said, I'm not for or aganist them and I don't patronize them either.

**fryar** · May-09-11, 08:01 PM

Downtown's [[relatively) low-crime reputation is very valuable and needs to be retained, notwithstanding any understandable complaints from other neighborhoods about this incessant focus on downtown.

**fryar** · May-09-11, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by softailrider

I don't hear much about violence or shootings at the strip clubs. That being said, I'm not for or aganist them and I don't patronize them either.

I wouldn't exactly mind if they up and disappeared, to be replaced by hands-on science centers and play places for kids. Oh well. One can dream.

**Dbest** · May-09-11, 08:17 PM

Bham, can you be any more annoying? If you don't care about an increase in crime in certain areas or want to make excuses for these criminals don't reply to threads in which people are concerned about these things. Better yet, apply for a job with the force. The circumstances of these events are very scary, if the female involved was a friend of mine I would be VERY concerned. I love your pathetic "I donate to Detroit" attitude. Detroit doesn't need your money or pity you piece of shit.

**English** · May-09-11, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by joesmithrocks

Thanks to you city folks for helping keep this particular thread on topic.

As a newer resident here, I'm hoping to become part of the conversation working to improve life in the neighborhood. I'm sure there are lots of great folks working hard to that end.

I think you're perfectly within your rights to be concerned about this. I've just moved downtown myself and have similar concerns.

The only solution is for more of us who are good people to move downtown, and to push out the thugs. There are certain businesses, clubs, and establishments that cater to the drugs-and-crime population. Replace them with the stuff that appeals to young professionals and crime will definitely go down. Trust me, as the relative of some truly ghetto and trifling folks, they do NOT feel comfortable in areas that contain mostly what they consider [[sorry) "white" or "bougie" establishments. Because no one is going thugging at REI or Whole Foods, for the same reason they're not doing it on the Avalon block.

**Fnemecek** · May-09-11, 08:34 PM

Originally Posted by Flintoid

While homicides are up in the city, the claim that all violent crime is up citywide is simply false. The following is a quote from a recent detnews article:

I saw that article when it was first published. I didn't believe it then and don't believe it now. If you lived in the city limits, you wouldn't believe it either.

All that the drop in crime stats means is that most Detroiters have given up on reporting things to DPD. One of my neighbors got robbed in March. She went to the NW District to report. After sitting in their lobby for more than hour, the officer at the desk responded to the news of the robbery by asking, "What do you expect us to do about it?"

Can you imagine a police officer in any other department saying that and keeping their job?

My neighbor walked about without filing an report, which means that the robbery won't show up in the stats. A lot of other people have simply given up on filing reports because a) it takes two or more hours to complete the process and b) nothing ever happens as a result.

Overall, If you dont go looking for crime it rarely finds you. While I do feel bad for the woman in corktown that is not the norm, usually criminal incidents happen to those out late at night or who are at places like gas stations, liquor stores, etc. during the dark. This is true for Detroit and the burbs. Crime does hit the innocent, but the majority of incidents happen to those either looking for it or going somewhere late at night.

Oh, really?

Well, then please educate me.

What was my 81 year old neighbor doing to "look for crime" when someone burst into her home in broad daylight and robbed her at gunpoint?

What was another neighbor doing when he got robbed walking out of a neighborhood coney island at 10 o'clock in the morning?

What was a third neighbor doing last Thursday when gun shots came through their bedroom window?

**softailrider** · May-09-11, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

I'm in the city every day, I see a lot of people who live in the city that never lift a finger to change things either - It works both ways.

**Fnemecek** · May-09-11, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Vox

Martial law? Bring in the troops. It's rather simplistic, but face it, there's no money for policing to levels needed. Even in some suburbs. Pay attention to the news this summer as the cities and some suburbs lose their battles with their budgets,

We don't need martial law. We just need people in charge of DPD who know what they're doing.

**joesmithrocks** · May-09-11, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by fryar

Downtown's [[relatively) low-crime reputation is very valuable and needs to be retained, notwithstanding any understandable complaints from other neighborhoods about this incessant focus on downtown.

You're right, I'm icessantly focusse on downtown. Because that's where I live. Twenty two bullets pumped into a father of three outside my bedroom window matters to me. It matters to me a great deal. That's why this is a thread about the "recent crime wave downtown."

**fryar** · May-09-11, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by joesmithrocks

You're right, I'm icessantly focusse on downtown. Because that's where I live. Twenty two bullets pumped into a father of three outside my bedroom window matters to me. It matters to me a great deal. That's why this is a thread about the "recent crime wave downtown."

That wasn't criticism directed at you or anything like that. I'm downtown-centric myself. But in fairness, even if there is a recent spike in downtown crime, it's hard to imagine that downtown isn't a relative haven and place apart from much of the rest of Detroit in this respect.

lilpup · May-09-11, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Fnemecek

We don't need martial law. We just need people in charge of DPD who know what they're doing.

more like people in charge of the Law Department who know what they're doing so that the DPD can feel free to do their jobs properly

**Fnemecek** · May-09-11, 09:21 PM

The Law Department is an issue for a multitude of reasons. However, we still need changes at DPD.

They're too top-heavy, with spending on administration that is simply off the charts in comparison to other police departments around the country.

There's also the fact that front-line DPD officers have been spread so thin for so long, and have had to deal with so many issues, that it's starting to effect them. I'm seeing seasoned officers, who should be backbone of the department, make rookie mistakes on a regular basis.

**socks_mahoney** · May-09-11, 09:33 PM

I too think that crime stats are alluding the real situation. Reporting crimes is rarely worth the effort, especially with skyrocketing insurance rates in the city.

The truth is we'll never solve the crime problem until we solve the jobs problem. Give young men something empowering to do and some money in their pocket and reduce crime by droves. God knows there is much work to do be done in this city. Tertiary businesses rise to serve those dollars. City services and property values rise in tandem.

Michigan has been in a downward spiral so long, we have forgotten that those "uncontrollable" spirals can also go up, in a positive direction.

**Dbest** · May-09-11, 09:42 PM

um no.... The problem wont be fixed until the majority of high school students graduate again, these students should not have to worry about things like not getting their textbooks[[thanks DPS crooks!), or violent behavior exhibited by others on a daily basis. Think what you want but citizens and city alike have FAILED with helping their children understand whats right morally.

**laphoque** · May-09-11, 09:52 PM

I'd like to see a police presence on the street when Ray LaHood isn't here. Although I guess they were more guards than walking the beat.

This wave will fall back like the others. We can't control everything. The world is not just.

Here's to hoping this band of assholes in city hall fix things. I have a feeling we'll be seeing another band of assholes soon though. Hopefully all of Metro Detroit can be merged under a financial manager.

**BrushStart** · May-09-11, 09:55 PM

I'm a downtowner as well, and the spike in shootings at the clubs has me pretty upset. I started a thread a few weeks back about it, and one solution is to file a nuisance action against the clubs themselves to get these places shut down. The problem is, who wants to put their name on the complaint? I don't know who runs these "establishments" and I'd rather not have to learn it the hard way. If people are bringing guns into these clubs and engaging in shootouts, the clubs do not deserve a license to operate. I don't really care what kind of pittance they pay in taxes, I'll personally write a check to help make up for it.

**fryar** · May-09-11, 10:19 PM

Agreed, just shut them down. You people need some Giuliani action.

**wolverine** · May-09-11, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I understand your concern, but I don't think this is anything new or particularly worrisome.

Complacency. The one thing I hate to hear come out of the mouths of many Detroiters. No crime is acceptable, even if it's always been that way.

I'll check back in 5 years to see if the attitude improves and the crime drops.

**English** · May-10-11, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by fryar

Agreed, just shut them down. You people need some Giuliani action.

Actually, no we don't, because those of us who want to be part of the revitalization but happen to LOOK like some of those being complained about do NOT want to end up like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abner_Louima
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting

There are other ways to remake the city besides in the image of Giuliani-era New York. Let's try to work and find them. He isn't the only person who's ever turned a city around, you know.

**English** · May-10-11, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Complacency. The one thing I hate to hear come out of the mouths of many Detroiters. No crime is acceptable, even if it's always been that way.

"God, grant me the serenity..." You know the rest [[or it can be Googled).

I mean, what do people propose we do with the criminal [[or criminal prone) element that wouldn't interfere with their basic human rights, free will, and freedom of movement? Should we lock them up before they commit violent crimes? We tried doing that for a couple of decades, and Detroit still has a crime problem. Did mandatory sentencing work?

One of the most unhelpful things that people say in conversations like these is "oh, it's the parents" or "it's the schools." Yes, it's parents, schools, a lack of jobs, and a culture of corruption. Sure thing, bingo, and now you're captain of the obvious. But what the hell do people propose we do with thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of people who don't WANT to go back to school, no matter what incentives there are? Or hold down a 9-to-5? I could list a few dozen people I know, again, some in my extended family, who will NEVER hold down a regular job because they refuse to get up in the mornings.

We don't want to have to force people to do anything, and you can't lock up people pre-emptively -- this is not the [[B-) movie Minority Report. So what on earth do you DO?

My dear, this is not complacency -- it's called "despair" and "helplessness."

**detroitbob66** · May-10-11, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by ray1936

y'all need to take a good handgun qualification course, get a ccw, and act like charles bronson. Couple of months and crime will go away..

hell yeah...im all in!!!

**beachboy** · May-10-11, 02:00 AM

ray1936 said: "y'all need to take a good handgun qualification course, get a ccw, and act like charles bronson. Couple of months and crime will go away.."

Been in Florida 32 yrs so i don't know ... does Michigan have STK [[shoot-to-kill) laws nowadays?

**stasu1213** · May-10-11, 04:28 AM

Nighhtclubs in downtown Detroit are not what they were in the 70s and early 80s. There were dress codes in clubs back then. You were checked at the door for weapons at some clubs. Things had changed over the years. Violence is running rampant in downtown detroit due to the clutter of nightclubs which attracts the young and the violent. Innocent people are the ones who being in the wrong place at the wrong time get caught up in the crossfire. I am not going to negate the fact that violent crime is on the rise downtown. City leaders had always said that a vibrant downtown is important but decrease the presence of police patrol in the downtown area. I am approached by agressive pandhandler everytime I am downtown. I don't know if this person is sizing me up to rob me. There are too many predators lurking in areas where they feel that people with money live or hang out. Get your CCW and be aware of your surroundings. The city had put forth little efforts to make sure those who are living, working, and being entertained downtown feel safe. Let us get off that "Crime happens everywhere" campaign and put our leaders feet to the fire