Recent crime wave downtown and near downtown

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:09 PM

I understand your concern, but I don't think this is anything new or particularly worrisome.

The club killings are due to the club patronage, and have little to do with downtown. They're also not random crimes.

The East Side landlord hit was nowhere near downtown.

The carjackings and car thefts are just facts of life in Detroit. Hardly a new thing. If anything, you probably have a little less of that activity than in years past.

Personally, while I love downtown, these issues aren't ones I want to think about on a daily basis. That's why I choose to live in a suburb where I can walk around 24/7 without fear of bodily harm.

**Detroitnerd** · May-09-11, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I understand your concern, but I don't think this is anything new or particularly worrisome.

The club killings are due to the club patronage, and have little to do with downtown. They're also not random crimes.

The East Side landlord hit was nowhere near downtown.

The carjackings and car thefts are just facts of life in Detroit. Hardly a new thing. If anything, you probably have a little less of that activity than in years past.

Personally, while I love downtown, these issues aren't ones I want to think about on a daily basis. That's why I choose to live in a suburb where I can walk around 24/7 without fear of bodily harm.

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

I spend thousands in Detroit annually, and contribute significantly to a church and to two major cultural anchors.

But it's irrelevent. I have no obligation to a given city. We're free to live and spend where we choose, and it's no one else's business.

**Detroitnerd** · May-09-11, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I spend thousands in Detroit annually, and contribute significantly to a church and to two major cultural anchors.

But it's irrelevent. I have no obligation to a given city. We're free to live and spend where we choose, and it's no one else's business.

Ah, yes. No reason for, say, a regional tax to actually educate people or ensure adequate nutrition. Much better to live in thine own personal Versaille and deign to spend thousands on cultural anchors. Truly, all wisdom will die with thee.

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Ah, yes. No reason for, say, a regional tax to actually educate people or ensure adequate nutrition. Much better to live in thine own personal Versaille and deign to spend thousands on cultural anchors. Truly, all wisdom will die with thee.

LOL, DNerd.

I would live in the University District in a sec if it were halfway safe and services were marginally tolerable. The fact that I don't may make me "evil" in your eyes, but I love the city all the same,

**Detroitnerd** · May-09-11, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

LOL, DNerd.

I would live in the University District in a sec if it were halfway safe and services were marginally tolerable. The fact that I don't may make me "evil" in your eyes, but I love the city all the same,

Sure. In other words, I'll contribute to the tax base as soon as the tax base is big enough to provide the services I need. In other words, never. Oh, if ONLY they could get their act together. Oh, well.

"Detroit? I live several miles north of there!"

"i went to the place where every white face
Is an invitation to robbery.
Sitting here in my safe Oakland County home
Don't wanna go back there again..."

**firstandten** · May-09-11, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I would live in the University District in a sec if it were halfway safe and services were marginally tolerable. The fact that I don't may make me "evil" in your eyes, but I love the city all the same,

You don't think University District is safe ? What is safe in your eyes ? Have any examples of poor services in University District ?

Vox · May-09-11, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

I suppose that you have all the answers, then. Living IN the hellhole is just soooo much more appealing, right? As long as there's a train running through it.

lilpup · May-09-11, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

Sure, they'd lift a finger if what they want to do was made legal...they'd clean up a lot of shit fast.

Remember, a lot of suburbanites now are those who recently left the city. Many know who and where the problems are and would love to be able to wild west in their old neighborhoods.

**softailrider** · May-09-11, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

I'm in the city every day, I see a lot of people who live in the city that never lift a finger to change things either - It works both ways.

ferntruth · May-10-11, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

That's the way it works. I don't live in Toledo, would you expect me to "life a finger to change things" there? I live in Ferndale, so thats where I put my energy.
If I lived in Detroit, I would be putting it there.

It's up to Detroit residents to fix their city instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it for them.

**Alley** · May-11-11, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by ferntruth

That's the way it works. I don't live in Toledo, would you expect me to "life a finger to change things" there? I live in Ferndale, so thats where I put my energy.
If I lived in Detroit, I would be putting it there.

It's up to Detroit residents to fix their city instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it for them.

That is NOT the way it works, at least not the way it should. Why would you want to lift a finger to change things in Detroit when you live in Ferndale??? Wait until trouble wanders ALLLLLL the way across 8 Mile, to Ferndale, to find your happy home and then ask yourself that question. If you think you can live in a [[close) suburb of the city, without being concerned with what goes on in that city, you are sadly mistaken.

Vox · May-11-11, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Alley

That is NOT the way it works, at least not the way it should. Why would you want to lift a finger to change things in Detroit when you live in Ferndale??? Wait until trouble wanders ALLLLLL the way across 8 Mile, to Ferndale, to find your happy home and then ask yourself that question. If you think you can live in a [[close) suburb of the city, without being concerned with what goes on in that city, you are sadly mistaken.

The trouble has been here a while, if you haven't noticed. Difference is, when you call the police and fire, they actually show up. And deal effectively with your trouble.

Property crimes are a different matter, but a deterrent is having neighbors that watch out for your shit, versus having neighbors that victimize you. Big difference...

**Zacha341** · May-12-11, 05:43 AM

Well stated Vox. The most negative aspect of crime is when it endorsed by a community ala the criminal 'neighbor hood' watch. Where, for example, you're monitored [[watched) going off to work and your home is summarily broken into during your absence and no one knows anything. Yet your stuff is just down the street as your neighbors look on, or worse 'grim' you for inquiring! Everyone knows 'what's up' but the 'code' and justification allows it to continue. Yeah there are areas where this is the way... how things are done. I refuse to live in that kind of area.

Originally Posted by Vox

The trouble has been here a while, if you haven't noticed. Difference is, when you call the police and fire, they actually show up. And deal effectively with your trouble.

Property crimes are a different matter, but a deterrent is having neighbors that watch out for your shit, versus having neighbors that victimize you. Big difference...

**wolverine** · May-09-11, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I understand your concern, but I don't think this is anything new or particularly worrisome.

Complacency. The one thing I hate to hear come out of the mouths of many Detroiters. No crime is acceptable, even if it's always been that way.

I'll check back in 5 years to see if the attitude improves and the crime drops.

**English** · May-10-11, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Complacency. The one thing I hate to hear come out of the mouths of many Detroiters. No crime is acceptable, even if it's always been that way.

"God, grant me the serenity..." You know the rest [[or it can be Googled).

I mean, what do people propose we do with the criminal [[or criminal prone) element that wouldn't interfere with their basic human rights, free will, and freedom of movement? Should we lock them up before they commit violent crimes? We tried doing that for a couple of decades, and Detroit still has a crime problem. Did mandatory sentencing work?

One of the most unhelpful things that people say in conversations like these is "oh, it's the parents" or "it's the schools." Yes, it's parents, schools, a lack of jobs, and a culture of corruption. Sure thing, bingo, and now you're captain of the obvious. But what the hell do people propose we do with thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of people who don't WANT to go back to school, no matter what incentives there are? Or hold down a 9-to-5? I could list a few dozen people I know, again, some in my extended family, who will NEVER hold down a regular job because they refuse to get up in the mornings.

We don't want to have to force people to do anything, and you can't lock up people pre-emptively -- this is not the [[B-) movie Minority Report. So what on earth do you DO?

My dear, this is not complacency -- it's called "despair" and "helplessness."

**Det_ard** · May-10-11, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by English

I mean, what do people propose we do with the criminal [[or criminal prone) element that wouldn't interfere with their basic human rights, free will, and freedom of movement? Should we lock them up before they commit violent crimes? We tried doing that for a couple of decades, and Detroit still has a crime problem. Did mandatory sentencing work?

One of the most unhelpful things that people say in conversations like these is "oh, it's the parents" or "it's the schools." Yes, it's parents, schools, a lack of jobs, and a culture of corruption. Sure thing, bingo, and now you're captain of the obvious. But what the hell do people propose we do with thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of people who don't WANT to go back to school, no matter what incentives there are? Or hold down a 9-to-5? I could list a few dozen people I know, again, some in my extended family, who will NEVER hold down a regular job because they refuse to get up in the mornings.

We don't want to have to force people to do anything, and you can't lock up people pre-emptively -- this is not the [[B-) movie Minority Report. So what on earth do you DO?

My dear, this is not complacency -- it's called "despair" and "helplessness."

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

**pffft** · May-10-11, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

I have to agree. Since when did any of us get to choose NOT to get up in the morning to go to a job?

**fryar** · May-11-11, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

These are questions of another order altogether.

You simply cannot regularly have gunfights in downtown Detroit. There is no point in trying anything else down there if you're not going to close down these places.

I don't mind the panhandlers so much, personally, but they are also part of that equation.