Recent crime wave downtown and near downtown

**joesmithrocks** · May-09-11, 02:17 PM

Hi everybody.

I've lived downtown for a year and half now. Over the last few weeks, there has been a major increase in violent crimes robberies near me. And I'm troubled.

Three weeks ago, there was a shooting inside Kingdom nightclub, next door to Saint Andrews. Shortly after, there was another shooting outside - which I heard happen and watched the aftermath. Outside, three bouncers fired 22 shots, killing a man who's car who had hit the building. In the weeks since, the family of the guy killed by the bouncers have been protesting the club. They say their son, a father of three in his 40s, was a photographer hired for a party inside that night. They believe he filmed the shooting inside, and was killed for his camera, which was missing after he was killed.

Two weeks ago, my friend in Corktown was car jacked in front of her home, just north of 75. Three guys took her car and tried to force her into her home. Fortunately, she was locked out of her home at the time, waiting for a friend to bring her key. So the guys left with her car and everything in it - including her computer. They didn't harm her. She was lucky. What would've happened had they gotten her into her home?

Thursday, the Free Press reported two men shot in their car in midtown, north of 94, west of the Lodge. It may have been an attempted car jacking.

Thursday, an off-duty cop got into a shootout with a guy trying to jack the cop's car at the Marathon station on Michigan in Corktown.

Thursday, two men shot outside of club Envy, on Larned near Shelby. One killed, one injured. The deceased was Cortez Smith, a star football player at Wayne State. A graduate of Cass Tech. An electrical engineering major.

A friend of mine was mugged at gun point outside of the party store at Cass and 75 two nights ago.

Last night we saw a guy trying to smash a car window behind the Fox Theater. A friend of mine has had his car broken into three times on that block.

Over the weekend, that landlord was killed over on the east side.

Crime is an old story in the city. And I've had few problems personally, since I moved here. But it seems like a real crazy time right now.

Anybody have anything else to report?

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:09 PM

I understand your concern, but I don't think this is anything new or particularly worrisome.

The club killings are due to the club patronage, and have little to do with downtown. They're also not random crimes.

The East Side landlord hit was nowhere near downtown.

The carjackings and car thefts are just facts of life in Detroit. Hardly a new thing. If anything, you probably have a little less of that activity than in years past.

Personally, while I love downtown, these issues aren't ones I want to think about on a daily basis. That's why I choose to live in a suburb where I can walk around 24/7 without fear of bodily harm.

**Detroitnerd** · May-09-11, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I understand your concern, but I don't think this is anything new or particularly worrisome.

The club killings are due to the club patronage, and have little to do with downtown. They're also not random crimes.

The East Side landlord hit was nowhere near downtown.

The carjackings and car thefts are just facts of life in Detroit. Hardly a new thing. If anything, you probably have a little less of that activity than in years past.

Personally, while I love downtown, these issues aren't ones I want to think about on a daily basis. That's why I choose to live in a suburb where I can walk around 24/7 without fear of bodily harm.

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

I spend thousands in Detroit annually, and contribute significantly to a church and to two major cultural anchors.

But it's irrelevent. I have no obligation to a given city. We're free to live and spend where we choose, and it's no one else's business.

**Detroitnerd** · May-09-11, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I spend thousands in Detroit annually, and contribute significantly to a church and to two major cultural anchors.

But it's irrelevent. I have no obligation to a given city. We're free to live and spend where we choose, and it's no one else's business.

Ah, yes. No reason for, say, a regional tax to actually educate people or ensure adequate nutrition. Much better to live in thine own personal Versaille and deign to spend thousands on cultural anchors. Truly, all wisdom will die with thee.

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Ah, yes. No reason for, say, a regional tax to actually educate people or ensure adequate nutrition. Much better to live in thine own personal Versaille and deign to spend thousands on cultural anchors. Truly, all wisdom will die with thee.

LOL, DNerd.

I would live in the University District in a sec if it were halfway safe and services were marginally tolerable. The fact that I don't may make me "evil" in your eyes, but I love the city all the same,

Vox · May-09-11, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

I suppose that you have all the answers, then. Living IN the hellhole is just soooo much more appealing, right? As long as there's a train running through it.

lilpup · May-09-11, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

Sure, they'd lift a finger if what they want to do was made legal...they'd clean up a lot of shit fast.

Remember, a lot of suburbanites now are those who recently left the city. Many know who and where the problems are and would love to be able to wild west in their old neighborhoods.

**softailrider** · May-09-11, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

I'm in the city every day, I see a lot of people who live in the city that never lift a finger to change things either - It works both ways.

ferntruth · May-10-11, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Suburban Detroiters: Perfectly pleased to live next to a hellhole; would never lift a finger to change things.

That's the way it works. I don't live in Toledo, would you expect me to "life a finger to change things" there? I live in Ferndale, so thats where I put my energy.
If I lived in Detroit, I would be putting it there.

It's up to Detroit residents to fix their city instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it for them.

**Alley** · May-11-11, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by ferntruth

That's the way it works. I don't live in Toledo, would you expect me to "life a finger to change things" there? I live in Ferndale, so thats where I put my energy.
If I lived in Detroit, I would be putting it there.

It's up to Detroit residents to fix their city instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it for them.

That is NOT the way it works, at least not the way it should. Why would you want to lift a finger to change things in Detroit when you live in Ferndale??? Wait until trouble wanders ALLLLLL the way across 8 Mile, to Ferndale, to find your happy home and then ask yourself that question. If you think you can live in a [[close) suburb of the city, without being concerned with what goes on in that city, you are sadly mistaken.

Vox · May-11-11, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Alley

That is NOT the way it works, at least not the way it should. Why would you want to lift a finger to change things in Detroit when you live in Ferndale??? Wait until trouble wanders ALLLLLL the way across 8 Mile, to Ferndale, to find your happy home and then ask yourself that question. If you think you can live in a [[close) suburb of the city, without being concerned with what goes on in that city, you are sadly mistaken.

The trouble has been here a while, if you haven't noticed. Difference is, when you call the police and fire, they actually show up. And deal effectively with your trouble.

Property crimes are a different matter, but a deterrent is having neighbors that watch out for your shit, versus having neighbors that victimize you. Big difference...

**wolverine** · May-09-11, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

I understand your concern, but I don't think this is anything new or particularly worrisome.

Complacency. The one thing I hate to hear come out of the mouths of many Detroiters. No crime is acceptable, even if it's always been that way.

I'll check back in 5 years to see if the attitude improves and the crime drops.

**English** · May-10-11, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by wolverine

Complacency. The one thing I hate to hear come out of the mouths of many Detroiters. No crime is acceptable, even if it's always been that way.

"God, grant me the serenity..." You know the rest [[or it can be Googled).

I mean, what do people propose we do with the criminal [[or criminal prone) element that wouldn't interfere with their basic human rights, free will, and freedom of movement? Should we lock them up before they commit violent crimes? We tried doing that for a couple of decades, and Detroit still has a crime problem. Did mandatory sentencing work?

One of the most unhelpful things that people say in conversations like these is "oh, it's the parents" or "it's the schools." Yes, it's parents, schools, a lack of jobs, and a culture of corruption. Sure thing, bingo, and now you're captain of the obvious. But what the hell do people propose we do with thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of people who don't WANT to go back to school, no matter what incentives there are? Or hold down a 9-to-5? I could list a few dozen people I know, again, some in my extended family, who will NEVER hold down a regular job because they refuse to get up in the mornings.

We don't want to have to force people to do anything, and you can't lock up people pre-emptively -- this is not the [[B-) movie Minority Report. So what on earth do you DO?

My dear, this is not complacency -- it's called "despair" and "helplessness."

**Det_ard** · May-10-11, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by English

I mean, what do people propose we do with the criminal [[or criminal prone) element that wouldn't interfere with their basic human rights, free will, and freedom of movement? Should we lock them up before they commit violent crimes? We tried doing that for a couple of decades, and Detroit still has a crime problem. Did mandatory sentencing work?

One of the most unhelpful things that people say in conversations like these is "oh, it's the parents" or "it's the schools." Yes, it's parents, schools, a lack of jobs, and a culture of corruption. Sure thing, bingo, and now you're captain of the obvious. But what the hell do people propose we do with thousands, perhaps even tens of thousands of people who don't WANT to go back to school, no matter what incentives there are? Or hold down a 9-to-5? I could list a few dozen people I know, again, some in my extended family, who will NEVER hold down a regular job because they refuse to get up in the mornings.

We don't want to have to force people to do anything, and you can't lock up people pre-emptively -- this is not the [[B-) movie Minority Report. So what on earth do you DO?

My dear, this is not complacency -- it's called "despair" and "helplessness."

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

**pffft** · May-10-11, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

I have to agree. Since when did any of us get to choose NOT to get up in the morning to go to a job?

**fryar** · May-11-11, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Det_ard

If someone wants to veg out on the couch for the rest of their life, fine by me. It's their life, their choice. Where it becomes an issue for me is when their choice to be a layabout requires my subsidization through any of the numerous government assistance programs. Now their choice to be lazy is costing the working person. If they have some way to slack off for the rest of their life and they're not relying on the public to enable them, have at it.

Now, if they should decide to acquire the means to be a perma-slug by some criminal activity, prison with hard labor is in order.

These are questions of another order altogether.

You simply cannot regularly have gunfights in downtown Detroit. There is no point in trying anything else down there if you're not going to close down these places.

I don't mind the panhandlers so much, personally, but they are also part of that equation.

**joesmithrocks** · May-09-11, 03:30 PM

Bham,

You think shootings in my front yard are not particularly worrisome? You think my friend, a single mother of two getting car-jacked in front of her own home is not worrisome? Gee, thanks.

Shootings in my front yard have everything to do with downtown - that's where the shootings happened. On the street. Near lots of innocent people - including me and my neighbors.

For those who actually live downtown, and understand that this recent crime is not normal, I'd appreciate any news you have to offer.

Thank you.

**Bham1982** · May-09-11, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by joesmithrocks

Bham,

You think shootings in my front yard are not particularly worrisome? You think my friend, a single mother of two getting car-jacked in front of her own home is not worrisome? Gee, thanks.

These violence-oriented clubs have been downtown for decades. So, while you may personally be worried, they aren't anything new, and are to be expected given past history. It's basically part of the bargain when you live downtown.

Same goes with carjackings. Obviously it's unacceptable and horrible behavior, but it's been going on for decades. It isn't particularly newsworthy when it's more of the same for a half-century.

My mother was carjacked [[not near downtown, though, near State Fair), so I know it's personally extremely distressing, but it's also reality in Detroit. This is why most folks who love Detroit choose to not live in Detroit.

I personally would consider Detroit, because I love the architecture, character and history. There's nothing like it where I live. But safety trumps everything else, so I'm in the burbs.

**joesmithrocks** · May-09-11, 05:24 PM

Hey bham, that's great. Good for you. You're so smart you live in the suburbs.

This thread is about recent crime in my neighborhood. And I find that to be very newsworthy indeed. If you wish to start a debate about crime history and city vs suburb living, how about you start your own thread?

Thanks.

**mlmdetroit** · May-10-11, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

These violence-oriented clubs have been downtown for decades. So, while you may personally be worried, they aren't anything new, and are to be expected given past history. It's basically part of the bargain when you live downtown.

Same goes with carjackings. Obviously it's unacceptable and horrible behavior, but it's been going on for decades. It isn't particularly newsworthy when it's more of the same for a half-century.

My mother was carjacked [[not near downtown, though, near State Fair), so I know it's personally extremely distressing, but it's also reality in Detroit. This is why most folks who love Detroit choose to not live in Detroit.

I personally would consider Detroit, because I love the architecture, character and history. There's nothing like it where I live. But safety trumps everything else, so I'm in the burbs.

I have lived in the city for 12 years now. Before that I lived in Royal Oak. One night 16 cars had their windows shot out. Were we supposed to just accept it and say "well that is what we get for living in Royal Oak"? What about the optometrist that was carjacked/murdered in Birmingham a number of years back? Should people have moved out of Birmingham? Oh, that is right. It was just a random incident.

agrahlma · May-09-11, 03:39 PM

I also live Downtown and the recent shootings are a big concern for me and my wife. We live across the street from Mandees and things tend to get a little crazy there late at night, and into the early morning.

Granted we're usually not out and about that late, but I sometimes I do need to walk the dogs after 11:00. The thing that concerns me is that I don't really see a police presence around there late at night. So far I've only witnessed a few fights - I pray that it never escalates beyond that.

Joesmithrocks - I have a few questions so I sent you a message

**rjk** · May-09-11, 03:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bham1982

The club killings are due to the club patronage, and have little to do with downtown.

Other than the fact that the clubs are downtown and the people with guns were in the clubs I guess you're right. What do you mean it has nothing to do with downtown? If downtown is attracting that type of person then it's a big problem and the city needs to deal with it.

lilpup · May-09-11, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

Other than the fact that the clubs are downtown and the people with guns were in the clubs I guess you're right. What do you mean it has nothing to do with downtown? If downtown is attracting that type of person then it's a big problem and the city needs to deal with it.

The city will never deal with the clubs, the strip clubs, or the excess of liquor stores in the city because those are all "viable businesses", yet other cities do just fine without them. You reap what you sow.

**softailrider** · May-09-11, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by lilpup

The city will never deal with the clubs, the strip clubs, or the excess of liquor stores in the city because those are all "viable businesses", yet other cities do just fine without them. You reap what you sow.

I don't hear much about violence or shootings at the strip clubs. That being said, I'm not for or aganist them and I don't patronize them either.