80 unit Cathedral manor for $1,000 now on e-bay

[Bham1982]

That's what I'm sayin'. From googleview, the apartment building next to it has brand new windows and looks well maintained and at that intersection all along 14th I see well maintained apartment buildings. Lawns cut. Very clean. 14th street doesn't look like a ghetto street with firebombed houses and graffiti.

I agree the pics don't look that terrible, but often the more occupied neighborhoods are worse than the abandoned neighborhoods. After all, you need people for crime and social pathology.

The highest crime neighborhood in Detroit is far Northeast Detroit. For the most part, that neighborhood isn't very bombed-out [[though that's changing).

When I look at the listing, it says the block's zoned C3/multi-res. It makes me wonder if the vacant parcels between the apartment building and the church was torn down with a plan to build some kind of grocery store or strip mall that never happened. I don't even know if the riots went all the way up to 6th mile. I thought it spread from 12th to just downtown and midtown.

There was looting all over the place; not just on 12th.

There was some minor looting as far north as Livernois in the Avenue of Fashion, and as far west as Grand River/Greenfield.

On the west side, there was looting along Mack & Kercheval, not too far from Grosse Pointe.

[staticstate]

how much is shipping? if I can get it to Racine for cheap I might take it.

[softailrider]

That's what I'm sayin'. From googleview, the apartment building next to it has brand new windows and looks well maintained and at that intersection all along 14th I see well maintained apartment buildings. Lawns cut. Very clean. 14th street doesn't look like a ghetto street with firebombed houses and graffiti.

When I look at the listing, it says the block's zoned C3/multi-res. It makes me wonder if the vacant parcels between the apartment building and the church was torn down with a plan to build some kind of grocery store or strip mall that never happened. I don't even know if the riots went all the way up to 6th mile. I thought it spread from 12th to just downtown and midtown.

Those vacant parcels you're referring to were not torn down with any type of plan. They were just burned out or abandoned one by one over the last 40 years.

I would say half the apartment buildings that were in the city are gone. It's a very tough business, most people don't want to work that hard, If you're not a live in owner and /or have a commando manager you can lost control very quickly. I've seen variations on similar themes dozens of times through the years.

[davewindsor]

It's a scam, that's what explains the low price.

I'm starting to think this is a scam now too.

She just posted another listing for a historic 18 unit apartment building a few blocks north of Boston-Edison at 1409 Webb with 12 of the 18 apartments rented, generating $4,800 a month and the bidding is now at $15,500 and she claims "I have not seen the building nor plan on seeing it," How is that possible? Who's collecting the rent?

She also requires a $15,000 non-refundable deposit due within 72 hours. After the "deposit has been received you will receive an agreement to sign and return with transfer information for your deed" HA! What stops her from taking the money and leaving the state. How do you even verify she's the owner before giving her the money? I'm willing to bet she doesn't own any of the buildings now. I've never heard of a $15,000 non-refundable deposit on an apartment building and giving the money to the seller and not a realtor or escrow company on an occupied apartment building before proper ownership has been verified. That's not how real estate transactions normally work. Scam and a half. http://cgi.ebay.com/18-DETROIT-UNITS...item3f09b32951

[Goose]

I'm starting to think this is a scam now too.

She just posted another listing for a historic 18 unit apartment building a few blocks north of Boston-Edison at 1409 Webb with 12 of the 18 apartments rented, generating $4,800 a month and the bidding is now at $15,500 and she claims "I have not seen the building nor plan on seeing it," How is that possible? Who's collecting the rent?

She also requires a $15,000 non-refundable deposit due within 72 hours. After the "deposit has been received you will receive an agreement to sign and return with transfer information for your deed" HA! What stops her from taking the money and leaving the state. How do you even verify she's the owner before giving her the money? I'm willing to bet she doesn't own any of the buildings now. I've never heard of a $15,000 non-refundable deposit on an apartment building and giving the money to the seller and not a realtor or escrow company on an occupied apartment building before proper ownership has been verified. That's not how real estate transactions normally work. Scam and a half. http://cgi.ebay.com/18-DETROIT-UNITS...item3f09b32951

This is the last recorded info on that property on Webb.
Grantor Grantee Sale Date Deed Date Sale Price Deed Type Liber/ Page 1409 WEBB STREET INC METRO DETROIT HOUSING LLC 11/9/2010 10/22/2010 40,000.00 QC 48838/ 0043
So someone purchased it via quit claim for $40,000 just a few months ago,

Metro Detroit Housing LLC has a Royal Oak address.

Metro Detroit Housing LLC
30134 WOODWARD AVE
ROYAL OAK MI 48073

[Goose]

The recent history on that property is interesting, someone actually got a 320K mortgage on the property in 2007...

Grantor Grantee Sale Date Deed Date Sale Price Deed Type Liber/ Page 1409 WEBB STREET INC METRO DETROIT HOUSING LLC 11/9/2010 10/22/2010 40,000.00 QC 48838/ 0043 PARK NATIONAL BANK 1409 WEBB STREET INC 8/21/2008 8/19/2008 0.00 QC 47427/ 1209 CHRISTINE WILSON PARK NATIONAL BANK 8/6/2008 7/23/2008 265,000.00 SHER/DEED 47402/ 1177 3697 CORPORATION MCCARTHY HOLDINGS INC 5/25/2007 5/11/2007 350,000.00 WAR/DEED 46336/ 0442 MCCARTHY HOLDINGS INC CHRISTINE WILSON 5/25/2007 5/11/2007 400,000.00 WAR/DEED 46336/ 0445 DYNAMIC EQUITIES INC CHRISTINE WILSON 5/25/2007 5/11/2007 0.00 WAR/DEED 46336/ 0448

[softailrider]

The recent history on that property is interesting, someone actually got a 320K mortgage on the property in 2007...

Grantor Grantee Sale Date Deed Date Sale Price Deed Type Liber/ Page 1409 WEBB STREET INC METRO DETROIT HOUSING LLC 11/9/2010 10/22/2010 40,000.00 QC 48838/ 0043 PARK NATIONAL BANK 1409 WEBB STREET INC 8/21/2008 8/19/2008 0.00 QC 47427/ 1209 CHRISTINE WILSON PARK NATIONAL BANK 8/6/2008 7/23/2008 265,000.00 SHER/DEED 47402/ 1177 3697 CORPORATION MCCARTHY HOLDINGS INC 5/25/2007 5/11/2007 350,000.00 WAR/DEED 46336/ 0442 MCCARTHY HOLDINGS INC CHRISTINE WILSON 5/25/2007 5/11/2007 400,000.00 WAR/DEED 46336/ 0445 DYNAMIC EQUITIES INC CHRISTINE WILSON 5/25/2007 5/11/2007 0.00 WAR/DEED 46336/ 0448

So, somebody walked away with just under a third of a million dollars. I'll bet there was no bank or mortgage company who was able to reclaim the money either.

Sounds like a great white collar crime if nobody comes after you.

[davewindsor]

This is the last recorded info on that property on Webb.
Grantor Grantee Sale Date Deed Date Sale Price Deed Type Liber/ Page 1409 WEBB STREET INC METRO DETROIT HOUSING LLC 11/9/2010 10/22/2010 40,000.00 QC 48838/ 0043
So someone purchased it via quit claim for $40,000 just a few months ago,

Metro Detroit Housing LLC has a Royal Oak address.

Metro Detroit Housing LLC
30134 WOODWARD AVE
ROYAL OAK MI 48073

I can't find a phone number or website for them. I can find one for Metro Detroit Housing Service, but I don't think that's the same owner. Is 2001 Burlingame also owned by Metro Detroit Housing LLC?

[davewindsor]

So, somebody walked away with just under a third of a million dollars. I'll bet there was no bank or mortgage company who was able to reclaim the money either.

Sounds like a great white collar crime if nobody comes after you.

How do you get that? It looks to me that Park National Bank took it back in foreclosure in 8/21/2008, held it for 2 years, then dumped it for 40,000 by quit claim..

[davewindsor]

Oh man, when I look at the seller's ebay feedback of 103 transactions, it's mostly e-books for $0.26 and digital art for $0.99 that she bought.

[jtf1972]

Love the feedback!

How does anybody fall for this sort of thing? Any time you see anything covered animated gif's with such witty tactics as "that's better, we start'n ta move now...." It should be a sign that it's not going to work out well... If it was a transaction in person & they were wearing a bright pink shirt with stickers on it & glasses that lit up & had the eyes hanging off on Slinkys...

[wolverine]

That brick & block is fine, isn't it? I assume the building behind it is part of the complex as well. Would they have been connected by a corridor of some kind?

It depends. Many buildings during this time were built with a mixture of construction techniques. The hallways and stairs were usually constructed with steel, but the units themselves had wood joists. Depending on water infiltration, the effects could be devastating on the structure. The walls may be load bearing, but they rely on that lateral support from those wood joists, tied back to that corridor built of steel.

I'd recommend a full gut rehab. Entirely rebuild the structure within. In this case, the building isn't worth investing in. If this was in a more desirable neighborhood, it may have a shot. But it will always see a life as a low rent building.

That seems to be the reality of 99% of apartment buildings in Detroit. The moment the lights go out, it's a goner unless by some change of luck, someone comes around and converts it into housing for the poor or something and gets a ton of public grants or loans. Certainly there's better opportunities for rehab in a few select neighborhoods, but this is not the case with this building.

It's a really beautiful structure, but I don't see a future. I wish I could see all the architectural detailing salvaged and have a second life on another building. I always hate to see good architectural artifacts destroyed by the wrecking ball. I think about all the bland faux historical infill going up here in Chicago that could benefit from what other cities throw away in the rubble pile.

[mcsdetroitfriend]

The second listing on Chelsea Ave isn't even correct, there's only one photograph of the building and its not even in focus, looks like it was blown up from a smaller size....also upon throwing the address into street view it showed a residential street with no apartment building in sight!

[bartock]

The real story is told in the deed filings.

Anyway, I looked up the name of the LLC mentioned on the State of MI business search website. Here it is:

http://www.dleg.state.mi.us/bcs_corp...8\E0142258.TIF

Articles of Incorporation by a guy named Travis Peterson. Googled his name and it seems he is a well-known scammer:

http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/...ncial-services

Nationwide crook.

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Search/travis-peterson.aspx

[old guy]

Love that rip off report. I'll have to bookmark that one.

[Packman41]

Oh man, when I look at the seller's ebay feedback of 103 transactions, it's mostly e-books for $0.26 and digital art for $0.99 that she bought.

The feedback tells you a lot. Appears that she had some issues with some property buyers [[with real money) that gave her neutral or negative feedback so she went and bought a bunch penny-anty items to improve her feedback score.

Then Bartock listed the scam reporting sites and here is one comment I noticed from an attorney-type:

"Wow, I would like to add another client scam delivered by none other than Travis Peterson. I met a nice couple from NC who wanted our help with two properties they bought in Detroit a year ago and cannot get a hold of Travis Peterson to see about rents and rehab. We drove past the properties and my heart sank. This scammer sold two properties in some really rough neighborhoods for over 300% above market.
Now this couple is left with two junk properties that they will never recoup their money in."

What a coincidence!

I went to PamsProperty website http://pamsproperty.com/aboutus.aspx and learned she is based in NC. What are the odds?

Anybody who did a title search: Were there any unpaid real estate taxes outstanding on the property? Other lien issues?

Finally, as DaveWindsor said, the conditions of sale and the manner of the title transfer are VERY questionable and all from an admitted absentee landowner based in NC that has never even been inside the building.

And yet the bidding is at $12,000. Wow.

[DetroiterOnTheWestCoast]

I'm no Ebay expert, but if this is a fraud isn't there a way to flag it on Ebay?

[davewindsor]

I'm no Ebay expert, but if this is a fraud isn't there a way to flag it on Ebay?

E-bay turns a blind eye to it so they can get their commission. I got ripped off on e-bay on a real estate transaction years ago. Not from this company. Was there a voice number to complain at e-bay? No. Did mediation do anything? No, they didn't respond. FBI thought it was a civil, not criminal matter so they didn't pursue it further. Did that company continue to sell scam listings. Yep.

Take a look at the scammers new listing today. 1800 W Bethune. A 56 unit apartment building with all windows in tact. Rents for $420-$510 per unit, but needs to be rehabbed? Looks very clean and occupied. Sold for $1.3m in 2006. Seller never visited the property. Now you can have it with a starting bid of $5,000 and there's a $10,000 non-refundable deposit due before they send you a document to sign to get title. Again, no escrow on the deposit.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CLASSIC-HISTORIC...88908320205971

[Goose]

in reality, although it may be a scam, the selling of an interest in real estate via quit-claim deed is not illegal

Unlike most other property deeds, a quitclaim deed contains no title convenant and thus, offers the grantee no warranty as to the status of the property title; the grantee is only entitled to whatever interest the grantor actually possesses at the time the transfer occurs.This means that the grantor does not guarantee that they actually own the property at the time of the transfer, or if they do own it, that the title is free and clear or uncontested. It is therefore possible for a grantee to receive no actual interest, and, because a quitclaim deed offers no warranty, offers the grantee no means to recover their losses. Further, if the grantor should acquire the property at a later date, the grantee is not entitled to take possession, because the grantee can only receive the interest the grantor held at the time the transfer occurred. In contrast, other deeds often used for real estate sales [[called grant deeds or warranty deeds, depending on the jurisdiction) contain warranties from the grantor to the grantee that the title is clear and/or that the grantor has not placed any encumbrance against the title.

[thnk2mch]

Sold.

$15,599.00