Nearly half of Detroiters can't read.

[SWMAP]

the reason for this illiteracy is Detroit was the place for America's uneducated masses to come and work on the line

That hasn't been the situation since at least 1965and in those days, if parents couldn't read when they arrived, their children still learned to read. In the 1960's and previously, Detroit schools were considered almost prestigious in their accomplishments. And I am speaking as a graduate of and teacher in private schools. I just remember when DPS was very respected across the country.

Even if parents can't read or can't read in English, what is stopping the basic progress of the child who is in the classroom right now, not generations ago when Detroit was a mecca for immigrants, Appalachians and Blacks wanting the factory jobs.

[noggin]

Who cares about the outcomes. Its more important that the unions get their collective bargaining rights.

[hamtown mike]

wow. that's like listening to John Madden announce a football game. "There's a pretty good chance that the team that scores the most points is going to be the team that wins."

I've always thought the posts on DYES need more pictures.

[hamtown mike]

Totally agree. i posted over in another thread that the new EFM for DPS could slash, scrimp and squeeze every last dime out of that turnip, hell he could even run a budget surplus, but until the students can see the benefit of an education [[by say an example set by their parents), they simply will not work for it.
Who can blame them? I wouldn't bust my ass for something if there was no benefit for myself or someone I cared about.

[hamtown mike]

...limited success by various organizations like Proliteracy Detroit, Detroit Literacy Coalition, Detroit Literacy Project, and possibly others.

Aaaahh the Detroit way, where people make a living off the misfortune of others. Three literacy programs, maybe more, in Detroit? each with a director and a few paid staffers?

[Bham1982]

Unfortunately, too many folks just don't care.

My mom, who taught in DPS for a few decades [[now retired) said that very few parents bothered to show up to Parent-Teacher conferences, even though the schools offered goodies and other inducements. If it happened to be cold or raining, no one would show up.

In the suburban public school I attended, almost all the parents showed up. I don't think a natural disaster would keep them away,

[Buy American]

No, it's not a "Good One". It's a stupid bit of internet lore that makes excuses for shitty spelling.

Whoa there Doc...don't take it so seriously!

[JBMcB]

Who can blame them? I wouldn't bust my ass for something if there was no benefit for myself or someone I cared about.

The purpose of an education isn't to get a job.

[JBMcB]

What grade level corresponds to literate? I would think it would be about grade 8.

If I remember correctly, newspapers are written in English corresponding to the English taught at the fifth or sixth grade level, which is considered the 'baseline' for reading comprehension.

[Hypestyles]

DPS needs an adult education curriculum. For folks who want to get their Diploma or GED. Also it needs Literacy "Reinforcement" program for folks who may already have the Diploma or GED, but who need remedial help. Re-open many of the closed schools and have these programs. Also have programs at schools where kids are if you have a child in DPS.

[hamtown mike]

The purpose of an education isn't to get a job.

Interesting thought. Any further insight on the purpose of an education?

I was under the assumption that an education was to help individuals become productive members of society-enabling us to contribute to the advancement of ourselves and each other collectively. Most of us choose to do that through our chosen vocations either through the work that we perform, the income taxes we have chosen to pay or a combination of the two.

[Danny]

uneducated fools from uneducated schools!

No thanks to failing Detroit Public Schools and more educational cuts, the flow of crack and other drugs and lack of educational agencies. Metro-Detroit will never change until the people start thinking about hope, faith and grace and what freedom means to them.

[Buy American]

I received my education in Detroit and learned to read in the DPS system. My parents made sure I did my homework, learned my lessons well, that I kept my nose to the grindstone and took school seriously. If I didn't follow the rules of the household and the school, I'd be in for a punishment that I wouldn't want.
Nowadays, many people in the DPS system don't take school seriously. Parents don't care what their children are doing out after curfew, they don't participate in their children's activities and they don't help the kids at home. What does anyone expect? Some teachers become indifferent to their students because they can see the handwriting on the wall...that these kids won't make it out in the world; they won't be prepared for higher education. No jobs in the future; just dope, gangs, murders, robberies or anything else that offers an opportunity to make some fast money. Also, many of the teachers are afraid of their students. I live in a suburb where some Detroiters have moved into. The kids coming to the elementary and middle schools are terrible. The girls dress like hookers, the words that come out of their mouths would embarass a sailor. They threaten teachers on a daily basis and bully other students. It's certainly not like the old days in Detroit where children and parents respected teachers and authority figures. Whose fault is that? It starts at home at an early age. The parents of these kids need to be re-educated.

[Locke09]

I believe that Detroit has a literacy problem, especially as so much of the middle class has left. But I do not for one minute believe that it is anywhere near 47% functionally illiterate.

I am dismayed that not a single news source or a single person seems to question this "study", its sources or the method for determining what the number of functionally illiterate people really is.

So, I did a little investigating. It's possible that I might be missing something still. But until someone gives me some raw data, I am going to say this is BS.

For what it's worth, here is what I have found:

1. The quotes are coming from a recent publication of the Detroit Regional Workforce Fund.

2. The DRWF is using studies by the National Institute for Literacy as its source.

3. The National Institute for Literacy used a survey called the "National Assessment of Adult Learning."

4. The last NAAL study was done in 2003. The one before that was done in 1992. It is timed to follow the census.

5. In 2003, the study, from which everyone seems to be extrapolating estimates, included 18500 adults [[aged 16 and over) from 6 states. Michigan was not one of the states included, and this is important information.

6. The National Center for Education Statistics, which has the study on its site, warns that not all interview questions and tasks were presented to all participants [[so as not to make them weary). It further warns that there were too few individuals to produce accurate scores, therefore software was used to calculate "Marginal Maximum Likelihood".

7. While the NCES presents state and county statistics [[and indicates it is only doing this because of frequent requests for it), the NCES warns that there is a large margin of errors, since most states did not even actually participate in the study.

8. In short, the NCES states that all of these statistics that are being quoted are simply using census data to extrapolate "indirect estimates" and "predictions". They use race/ethnicity, education, poverty, etc. to predict what the illiteracy rate might be.

The DRWF should therefore be reporting this as a "prediction", which might have no foundation in truth. Bad information leads to bad decisions.

NCES site is http://nces.ed.gov/naal/estimates/overview.aspx

[Locke09]

With the latest census just being done last year, and results published this year, it's hard to believe that another assessment has already been done. If it has, it has not been made readily available on any website yet. And if it uses the same methodology as before, it is still just a prediction.

[9mile&seneca]

What happened with that program to bring more volunteers into the schools? I can't remember what they called it, but they had a lot of people sign up.

What happened to that program called school where it cost about 1/10th to teach someone to do math and they could read? And teacher's salaries have not gone up that much, so where the hell does all that loot go?

[firstandten]

Interesting thought. Any further insight on the purpose of an education?

I was under the assumption that an education was to help individuals become productive members of society-enabling us to contribute to the advancement of ourselves and each other collectively. Most of us choose to do that through our chosen vocations either through the work that we perform, the income taxes we have chosen to pay or a combination of the two.

Interesting thought. This from a article from the Huffington Post on the purpose of an eduction
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/heathe..._b_774497.html

1. Teach the skills for passionate advocacy
2. Prep the students for their future participation in our democratic process
3. Educate them with the skills to function in the future world
4. Grant equal opportunity and access to the same high-level of learning
5. Develop the skills to have options in life
6. Teach the love of exploration
7. Teach the awareness and maturity of self to be one's own advocate later in life
8. Create a civilized population
9. Prepare students to contribute to an ever-evolving society
10. Fill a student with a sense of service and belonging
11. Foster personal responsibility
12. Create critical thinkers
13. Develop the ability and confidence to question
14. Nurture the skills necessary to participate in the exchange of ideas
15. Develop students who function autonomously
16. Teach social skills
17. Give students the skills to compete globally
18. Create lifelong learners
19. Teach students what it takes to achieve their professional goals
And only one person used their 30 words to specifically to say:
20. Teach them reading, writing, and math.

This was based on different peoples perception of what public education should do.

The problem with this as I see it is our public institutions can only do one or two things really well. Once you get beyond the core function of an public institution it tends to be less effective.
We need to change the model of what we want to see our schools do. The things we are doing aren't working and haven't worked for a long time. As much as I would like to see involved parents you can't make them come to parent-teacher meetings and bribing them with food and gift cards will only go so far.

The reason I highlighted number 20 is because I think that for k-6 or k-8 reading, writing and math should be the only focus of the school. After 6th grade or 8th grade based on testing and/or aptitude,students should be tracked into different areas some of which will have no relationship to college. If a student just wants a bare bones education so he can go work in a factory or drive a cab then don't force him into classes that are college prep.

If a district like Detroit can get most of its students to an 8th grade reading comprehesion level then it would be doing a pretty good job.

[maxx]

From the way people post on this and other boards, I'd say the numbers are even higher. And then they get all snotty and throw a temper tantrum when you call them on it.

I say outlaw ChatSpeak!!!

Ys. Txtng jst maks it wrse.

firstandten:
As soon as a child can read about a hundred words, s/he can start to read about science and history. They have to read something so their reading doesn't have to all be fiction. Elementary students in the USSR used to read Tolstoy's stories.

[fryar]

I'm also skeptical that the functional illiteracy rate is that high, even if [[some) conditions are deplorable. Functional means being able to function, as a human being in society, so functional means not needing a picture menu at McDonald's.

The list put together by Huffington Post is wonderful, and I agree with it, but at the same time, it is a little aloof. Whatever individual or crisis team is currently or will in the future be in charge of DPS to "fix things," whatever that may mean, their demonstrated ability to develop mature and aware selves able to be their own advocate in life or teach the skills for passionate advocacy is pretty irrelevant. Feeling like a stakeholder in society and therefore itching to grow up and vote already, to put it my own way, is something accomplished by a whole of which the school and the teachers are a part, as are MTV's Rock the Vote and one's neighbors. They're having another kind of conversation over there.

Interesting research, Locke09. That's the kind of thing I was thinking, too. It makes perfect sense to me. If you take income alone as indicative of the degree of someone's education, your model will predict terribly low educational results for Detroit. Glad somebody went to the trouble to debunk this, though.

[Dr. Emil]

The kids coming to the elementary and middle schools are terrible. The girls dress like hookers, the words that come out of their mouths would embarass a sailor. They threaten teachers on a daily basis and bully other students. It's certainly not like the old days in Detroit where children and parents respected teachers and authority figures. Whose fault is that? It starts at home at an early age. The parents of these kids need to be re-educated.

You must spend a lot of time at middle and elementary schools. Are you a teacher?

[GOAT]

SWMAP is exactly right. In fact DPS was used as themodel for most schoo boards throughout the USA because it was spectacular.

My question is how did it fall to such depths?

Yes, I know parents must be involved and Detroit doesn't seem to have many functional families But the DPS is truly an astounding waste of money and a complete and utter failure in it's mandate of providing an education.

[GOAT]

I want to add that school boards today do too much of other things instead of focusing on education. They have become societie's proverbial babysitting service to the detriment of society itself.

[fryar]

You must spend a lot of time at middle and elementary schools. Are you a teacher?

Well, and besides that, not much is likely to be done about it, so we should consider alternatives. It's not like other low-performing school districts don't manage to improve their performance, many of which are probably dealing with similar issues.
The irony notwithstanding.

[Yooper]

It's awesome that Americans can be dedicated enough to graduate HS. Get a college degree and then a masters.
By the time they're 30 they can be making 80k/yr teaching English in Mi. schools. Summers off, full medical.
Then retiring at the age of 50 with a full pension.

MIT engineering grads could only have it so good. But not.

[Buy American]

You must spend a lot of time at middle and elementary schools. Are you a teacher?

A very close relative is a teacher at the middle school. She has horror stories about what goes on within the school walls. Unfortunately, there are strict limitations put on the teachers and the school administration to discipline these children. When the parent is called to the school because of dress code infractions or because of foul language used at a teacher or a student, or an assault on a teacher or another child, you can look and listen and see why the child is like he/she is.
It's not a teachers responsibility to raise these kids right, it's the teachers responsibility to teach children the 3 R's.