New development aims to make Detroit a popular port of call

**Detroit Stylin** · May-06-11, 12:58 PM

Here are some pictures of the terminal site taken a couple of days ago. Quite a bit of activity happening there...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

**Gistok** · May-06-11, 02:38 PM

Iheartthed.... interestingly enough... when Michigan Opera Theatre restored the Detroit Opera House, Opera fans from all over the world do actually make it a point to come to Detroit to see Opera's... especially when MOT hosts world premiers of operas, such as "Cyrano" and "Margaret Garner"... now granted these folks fly into Detroit to see them... but Detroit is not just some regional 60 miles draw as Hemrod seems to think. There are actually people who do come to Detroit for some of its' cultural attractions... be it the DEMF festival, the Encyclopedic DIA, Motown Museum, or The Henry Ford.

It ain't just Michiganders visiting here...

Now granted we're not New York City [[and we're certainly no one's Emerald City...hehe)... but we do get quite a following of folks who come here. Even the former Michigan Theatre gets visitors coming in from around the world.... [[a Montreal Architecture professor brought his entire class to Detroit on a field trip... and the former Michigan Theatre and MCS were 2 of the highlights of their visit).

**stasu1213** · May-06-11, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Iheartthed.... interestingly enough... when Michigan Opera Theatre restored the Detroit Opera House, Opera fans from all over the world do actually make it a point to come to Detroit to see Opera's... especially when MOT hosts world premiers of operas, such as "Cyrano" and "Margaret Garner"... now granted these folks fly into Detroit to see them... but Detroit is not just some regional 60 miles draw as Hemrod seems to think. There are actually people who do come to Detroit for some of its' cultural attractions... be it the DEMF festival, the Encyclopedic DIA, Motown Museum, or The Henry Ford.

It ain't just Michiganders visiting here...

Now granted we're not New York City [[and we're certainly no one's Emerald City...hehe)... but we do get quite a following of folks who come here. Even the former Michigan Theatre gets visitors coming in from around the world.... [[a Montreal Architecture professor brought his entire class to Detroit on a field trip... and the former Michigan Theatre and MCS were 2 of the highlights of their visit).

Architecture is one of the main reasons Detroit should put shops in these buildings such as the Penobscot and others downtown for tourist and visitors alike, Since people come from around the world to check out Detroit's architecture why no provide them with shopping also

**stasu1213** · May-06-11, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Detroit was a regional draw. It actually used to be the "big city" that Toronto residents visited for short trips "to the city".

But American urban tourism as we know it today is a relatively new phenomenon. No American city was much of a tourist mecca back in the 1950s and 1960s. When Americans took vacations they went to the beach or to the woods or to resort communities. Then the cities on the coasts realized that there is a lot of money in foreign tourism -- and history is the way to sell it -- so SF and NYC got on board. Then Chicago caught on too. So why shouldn't Detroit make money off of its history? It has every bit as much history to sell as does Chicago.

I agree with that much. Hardly any tourists will be much interested in spending 45 minutes each way on a bus to visit Somerset or Twelve Oaks. The idea sounds absolutely absurd.

I know that tourist would not want to or have the time to take a 45 minute drive to one of the malls to shop. A visitor who is residing in the city for more than one day may. Especially when there is nothing dowtown that would meet the demands of most overnight stay out of towners. I think it is more absurd to have all of these things happening downtown that would attract tourist but have no good shops for the to shop at. I am speaking of the overnight guest

**Ray1936** · May-06-11, 06:20 PM

My gosh, this is a great idea.........and here they come!!!

**begingri** · May-10-11, 04:33 PM

Detroit port may draw cruise ship tourism

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windso...struction.html

**iheartthed** · May-10-11, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I think it is more absurd to have all of these things happening downtown that would attract tourist but have no good shops for the to shop at. I am speaking of the overnight guest

I think that's absurd too. But the only thing more absurd is having to drive 45 minutes away from the tourist area just to buy a souvenir.

**Gistok** · May-10-11, 04:57 PM

OK... let me get this straight... by overnight guest you are referring to a ship that would spend 2 days docked at the marina, right? Because overnight guests on most cruise ships go back to the boat for the night.

As for what visitors would want is not fashion couture... but some souvenir of their stay here... what about Pure Detroit in the Guardian Building? Close enough to the ship, folks can buy some high end souvenirs... while the magnificent lobby spaces would double as a tourist destination.

Or maybe the Detroit Convention/Visitors Bureau [[or someone else) could open a Kiosk to sell the regular touristy stuff that some folks demand... like postcards, T-Shirts, snow globes, etc... [[or get Pure Detroit to sell some low end souvenirs as well).

**ghettopalmetto** · May-10-11, 05:17 PM

Hell, while we're at it, let's just construct a helipad on top of Hart Plaza, and watch wealthy people from all over the world flock to Detroit just to drop their dollars.

**stasu1213** · May-10-11, 05:55 PM

When visitors and tourists whoever go to New York, Chicago, Atlanta, and Los Angeles. they do go shopping in the areas near the hotels they are staying in. Not just for soverniers but at store such as Old navy, The Gap, etc. Detroit doesn't have any stores downtown to shop at. Not even a Footlocker or anything for women who does more shopping than men. A liquor store or a club are popping up all over downtown. Well I guess since they both sell liquor the state and city could get the money from the liquor tax Maybe that is it.

**Gistok** · May-10-11, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

When visitors and tourists whoever go to New York, Chicago, Atlanta, and Los Angeles. they do go shopping in the areas near the hotels they are staying in. Not just for soverniers but at store such as Old navy, The Gap, etc. Detroit doesn't have any stores downtown to shop at. Not even a Footlocker or anything for women who does more shopping than men. A liquor store or a club are popping up all over downtown. Well I guess since they both sell liquor the state and city could get the money from the liquor tax Maybe that is it.

Stasu1213.... I guess foreign travelers would want to visit the malls... but would domestic travelers want to visit the same stores that they have at home?.... I could see both type of visitors wanting to visit souvenir type establishments though.... whatever the case... the Detroit Convention Visitors Bureau and perhaps local travel entitites should help meet the needs of the visitors.

Here's a list of what's available within walking distance at the Renaissance Center....
http://www.gmrencen.com/Directory/Sh...0/Default.aspx

**stasu1213** · May-11-11, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Stasu1213.... I guess foreign travelers would want to visit the malls... but would domestic travelers want to visit the same stores that they have at home?.... I could see both type of visitors wanting to visit souvenir type establishments though.... whatever the case... the Detroit Convention Visitors Bureau and perhaps local travel entitites should help meet the needs of the visitors.

Here's a list of what's available within walking distance at the Renaissance Center....
http://www.gmrencen.com/Directory/Sh...0/Default.aspx

If I was visiting Detroit and needed an extra pair of casual shorts or a polo shirt or basic needs such as socks, underwear, sneakers, which one of those shops would I go to? Jos A Bank is way too expensive. The woman's boutique only cater to smaller trendy young women. Come on. Detroit can't even handle the basics. These stores that you had listed don't

**ghettopalmetto** · May-11-11, 07:48 PM

I forgot about the Welland Canal. Whoops! Silly Canadians....

Clearly, my memory of 1000' foreign-flag vessels entering the Poe Lock fails me. :-)

**coracle** · May-12-11, 03:18 PM

The whole idea is BS. There ain't enough Cruise Ships or people on the ships to make a measurable difference to downtown, so spending somebody elses money on it is a shear waste when it could be spent on cleaning up the neighborhoods where it's really needed. Detroit has it arse about face when it comes to spending money. First you get your 'hoods healthy then they will stimulate downtown, whereas Detroit only seems to "invest" in glitzy schemes downtown that never really gel; but I guess it's easier to do than tackling the real root problem and it looks like you're doing something - when really just wasting public money.

**j to the jeremy** · May-12-11, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by coracle

The whole idea is BS. There ain't enough Cruise Ships or people on the ships to make a measurable difference to downtown, so spending somebody elses money on it is a shear waste when it could be spent on cleaning up the neighborhoods where it's really needed. Detroit has it arse about face when it comes to spending money. First you get your 'hoods healthy then they will stimulate downtown, whereas Detroit only seems to "invest" in glitzy schemes downtown that never really gel; but I guess it's easier to do than tackling the real root problem and it looks like you're doing something - when really just wasting public money.

There's not some big pot of "public money" that anyone gets to use for anything. Transportation infrastructure like this doesn't get built with school money or neighborhood improvement grants. This port is at the very least something that a major city on a major waterway should have, and now we finally have it.
If the feds want to attack the root problem of spreading urban decay, they should mandate an end to all sprawl in all struggling cities in favor of healthy, neighborhood-level, mixed use development.

**Gistok** · May-12-11, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

If I was visiting Detroit and needed an extra pair of casual shorts or a polo shirt or basic needs such as socks, underwear, sneakers, which one of those shops would I go to? Jos A Bank is way too expensive. The woman's boutique only cater to smaller trendy young women. Come on. Detroit can't even handle the basics. These stores that you had listed don't

When has anyone ever heard of someone UNDERPACKING for a cruise.... LOL.... people always bring more than they need... there's no baggage limit like on an airplane...

When folks come to Detroit... they'll likely have to do their shopping in Toronto or Chicago when they disembark. But it's certainly no reason to skip us as a destination... and if they want to spend 1/2 hour in a taxi [[each way) out to Fairlane... who's to stop them...

But cruise lining would only be a 3 or 4 month industry in the Great Lakes... and new downtown retailers aren't going to be able to live off of that... plus the regular downtown traffic... at least not yet...

**Rocko** · May-12-11, 10:51 PM

I still think it's funny that to the best of my knowledge, the Port Authority has not acknowledged or encouraged any of the local tour or cruise operators to use the new facility or dock now nearing completion. You'd think they'd be falling over themselves to get the local operators to use the new facility. Guess too many cruise liners are in the works......

**coracle** · May-13-11, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

There's not some big pot of "public money" that anyone gets to use for anything. Transportation infrastructure like this doesn't get built with school money or neighborhood improvement grants. This port is at the very least something that a major city on a major waterway should have, and now we finally have it.
If the feds want to attack the root problem of spreading urban decay, they should mandate an end to all sprawl in all struggling cities in favor of healthy, neighborhood-level, mixed use development.

I agree with your comments on "public money"; I had it wrong.
On the other hand I'm not sure about the Feds attacking the root problem of urban decay. I think the solution has to come from the people that live there. The Feds can't legislate behavior.

**jt1** · May-13-11, 08:52 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I know that tourist would not want to or have the time to take a 45 minute drive to one of the malls to shop. A visitor who is residing in the city for more than one day may. Especially when there is nothing dowtown that would meet the demands of most overnight stay out of towners. I think it is more absurd to have all of these things happening downtown that would attract tourist but have no good shops for the to shop at. I am speaking of the overnight guest

Your 'no shops for visitors' drumbeat is sad and comical. I travel often for work and leisure. My travels have taken me through most of the country and over 20 countries worldwide [[Most worldwide travel if for personal vacation). Strangely, I have never quantified the enjoyment of a trip based upon the shopping and I certainly have never felt that a trip to a city was a failure because I couldn't find a place to buy socks. For me the architecture, history, people, restaurants, activities, etc are what has made trips enjoyable.

Maybe we're just two very different people since it appears that the only thing you are interested in doing on travles is shopping. Or you're just being an argumentative ass to downplay anything that may be remotely positive in the city.

**jt1** · May-13-11, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by coracle

I agree with your comments on "public money"; I had it wrong.
On the other hand I'm not sure about the Feds attacking the root problem of urban decay. I think the solution has to come from the people that live there. The Feds can't legislate behavior.

The fed and state level can certainly make the playing field more equal. Newer communities have subsidized infrastructure, lower/no legacy costs, etc. Placing the blame on the residents of the older communities ignores the realities they face from a structural cost basis.

agrahlma · May-13-11, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by jt1

Your 'no shops for visitors' drumbeat is sad and comical. I travel often for work and leisure. My travels have taken me through most of the country and over 20 countries worldwide [[Most worldwide travel if for personal vacation). Strangely, I have never quantified the enjoyment of a trip based upon the shopping and I certainly have never felt that a trip to a city was a failure because I couldn't find a place to buy socks. For me the architecture, history, people, restaurants, activities, etc are what has made trips enjoyable.

Maybe we're just two very different people since it appears that the only thing you are interested in doing on travles is shopping. Or you're just being an argumentative ass to downplay anything that may be remotely positive in the city.

I Agree -- although my wife might argue this point [[lol)

**j to the jeremy** · May-13-11, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by jt1

The fed and state level can certainly make the playing field more equal. Newer communities have subsidized infrastructure, lower/no legacy costs, etc. Placing the blame on the residents of the older communities ignores the realities they face from a structural cost basis.

Right. They can't legislate behavior, but they can legislate life chances.

**coracle** · May-13-11, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by jt1

The fed and state level can certainly make the playing field more equal. Newer communities have subsidized infrastructure, lower/no legacy costs, etc. Placing the blame on the residents of the older communities ignores the realities they face from a structural cost basis.

You're right of course, but in principle I'm against subsidizing failure and decay with other people's money [[Because Fed and State don't have any money of their own and I want to use mine to pay for my own quality of life). I would rather provide a framework for a community to work within and reward them when certain levels have been achieved. Nobody really values things when they are paid for by somebody else and given free gratis. Such communities tend to become dependent on entitlements. The real effort has to come from the beneficiaries if it's going to be successful.

**j to the jeremy** · May-13-11, 01:54 PM

The 'failure and decay' you see only exists because of the lack of proper urban investment, planning, and community building our governments do. We're not talking about entitlements here, we're talking about things like subsidizing effective transit instead of highways and the military [[to make sure our cars don't run out of gas).

The key is that you "want to use [[your taxes) to pay for your own quality of life". This national attitude of is a main reason the American Dream of a suburban home was so easily sold to the [[white) middle and upper classes. Of course this mindset also furthers racial and economic segregation, since people with money can choose to live wherever they want and lower their taxes as much as they want, and those with smaller budgets will always be forced to carry the regional tax burden in places like Detroit. Cities raise the tax revenues for new road construction, utilities, infrastructure, etc in rural and exurban areas. It's ok for them to get a new dock once in a while.

**coracle** · May-13-11, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by j to the jeremy

The 'failure and decay' you see only exists because of the lack of proper urban investment, planning, and community building our governments do. We're not talking about entitlements here, we're talking about things like subsidizing effective transit instead of highways and the military [[to make sure our cars don't run out of gas).

The key is that you "want to use [[your taxes) to pay for your own quality of life". This national attitude of is a main reason the American Dream of a suburban home was so easily sold to the [[white) middle and upper classes. Of course this mindset also furthers racial and economic segregation, since people with money can choose to live wherever they want and lower their taxes as much as they want, and those with smaller budgets will always be forced to carry the regional tax burden in places like Detroit. Cities raise the tax revenues for new road construction, utilities, infrastructure, etc in rural and exurban areas. It's ok for them to get a new dock once in a while.

I get the impression you are bitter about something and want me to pay for it. And as you have introduced color into the discussion I'd like to confirm for you I'm very proudly white and [[partly) living My Dream; my work dictating I live in S.E.Michigan and my wealth [[less taxes) allowing me to not having to live in Detroit. You are right that my mindset does not cover the left wing sycobabble that blames everybody else for their lack of success . I believe in risk, reward, enterprise, business, personal responsibility and the like. I do not believe in rewarding failure and decay just because I can.