New development aims to make Detroit a popular port of call

[ferntruth]

Hmmmm. That must be why the Poe Lock is 1200 feet long. And why I've personally seen ships under flags from Europe and Southeast Asia travel through that lock. The US Army Corps of Engineers has had plans on the shelf for years to demolish the two smaller locks and construct a lock even larger than the Poe, to accommodate newer, larger ocean-going vessels. That must be because nothing in excess of 740'x78' can transit the St. Lawrence Seaway, right?

If your theory were correct, you might want to explain zebra mussels and sea lampreys, which are not native to the Great Lakes, but most definitely native to saltwater environments.

But yeah, like Detroitnerd said: throw a whole mountain of cash at some huge, complicated, stupid-ass project that someone thinks will increase tourism, then wonder why the city is broke when the tourists don't show. When it comes to simple, everyday basic necessities like clean streets, transit, parks, lighting, police, snowplowing--fuck it. Detroit don't need any of that shit--just tourists. Gotta keep tricking, er "luring", people downtown--everything else is unimportant.

Wow, despite massive evidence to the contrary, you are obviously right since after all you've "personally seen ships under flags from Europe and Southeast Asia travel through that lock"

[Vox]

See, what we have to do is build all sorts of big-ticket things that are going to attract super-rich people downtown where they will stay approximately as long as it takes for them to eat, watch a game or go to a museum. Actually providing services for the people who live here? A waste of money ...

Oh, you mean like that train that you always like to promote?

Sounds just like that, except for the "super rich" part.

[401don]

While it's always nice when some Fed. dollars are thrown to the city, this project should make that annual list of dumb pork expenditures during record deficits.

[Pam]

I'm excited about the possibility of a ferry running across the river.

Me too. Doesn't that count as mass transit?

[stasu1213]

A person could make a killing providing visitors and tourist a ride to one of the thriving shopping centers such as Fairlane, Oakland, Somerset, and Eastland Mall via shuttle van. Tha is until downtown get viable shopping throughout it. A van could be designated to a shopping center which will take a person or persons from the riverfront to the mall itself Let's face it; tourists are going to want someplace to shop. Downtown does not have anything.

[gthomas]

A person could make a killing providing visitors and tourist a ride to one of the thriving shopping centers such as Fairlane, Oakland, Somerset, and Eastland Mall via shuttle van. Tha is until downtown get viable shopping throughout it. A van could be designated to a shopping center which will take a person or persons from the riverfront to the mall itself Let's face it; tourists are going to want someplace to shop. Downtown does not have anything.

Build it and they will come...They say retail cant work "Downtown"?..People are idiots in this region..I have been emailing retailers to open shop downtown. No solid plans...all talk. they told me to visit other locations in "Metro" Detroit..lol! Wow

Wish someone take a chance soon...

[Bham1982]

Crusise ship passengers are going to want to visit Eastland? Seriously?

I'm pretty sure these folks are paying thousands to see the natural beauty of the Great Lakes. I doubt they're on the hunt for the crappy, declining suburban malls of the Rust Belt.

[stasu1213]

Build it and they will come...They say retail cant work "Downtown"?..People are idiots in this region..I have been emailing retailers to open shop downtown. No solid plans...all talk. they told me to visit other locations in "Metro" Detroit..lol! Wow

Wish someone take a chance soon...

This is where the grass roots would have to step up and open shops in downtown detroit. Shops that will sell middle of the line items and not funky ghetto items as do the shops that already exist downtown do. If you take a lot at the history of loca retail in downtown detroit, retailers such as Hughes and Hatchers, Kerns, United Shirts, Washington Clothiers, Hudson's and others catered to the needs of the average to the expensive dressing men and women not to the zuit sooters and flappers of that day. When visitors came to Detroit they had shopped at those stores mostly. Visit Birmingham, Royal Oak, and Dearborn and see the independent shop shops that cater to all fashions including casual.

[canuck]

Yeah, I know about the freighters, but the ocean cruise ships have weird dimensions. I know that they often require major infrastructure changes, such as raising bridges, dredging seaways, expanding sea locks, etc.

That's true enough, We get a number of large cruise ships in the summer/fall from Germany, Holland and the US in Montreal. The bigger freighters and containerships stop here because they cant get through the St Lawrence seaway locks to the Great Lakes and back, likewise some of the cruise ships cant get past Quebec City toward Montreal because of their height and the bridge clearances. There is no restriction on the size of ships at Quebec City. And even if the River is still really wide btwn QC and Montreal, Large ships need experienced pilots to navigate, because of higher depthlines etc...

Also, regarding coach service, last year on a family trip to Quebec City, the municipality provided free electric mini buses around the old city. [[18 passengers maybe 15 minutes apart) It is a good deal for a couple with two kids to take four trips for free. If you are an older couple walking the very slopey streets, you might want to go back to that little shop to buy the necklace or have a meal at the restaurant that opens for dinner but is far from the hotel. The money saved on taxi is an incentive to go out and spend on something else.

[Gistok]

That's why they call the harbors where large cruise ships and super container ships... deep water ports. I doubt that if these ships could make it as far as the Detroit River... that they would be able to dock here... the dockside water depth at Hart Plaza is likely not sufficient for any supersized ships.

[Rocko]

According to the chart it looks like it's about 20-22 feet in that area. Probably a little shallower right along the seawall, but with the projecting pier they built I'd guess around there. It could probably be dredged deeper but they'd need to be careful given the close proximity to the Detroit River Tunnel.

[gthomas]

This is where the grass roots would have to step up and open shops in downtown detroit. Shops that will sell middle of the line items and not funky ghetto items as do the shops that already exist downtown do. If you take a lot at the history of loca retail in downtown detroit, retailers such as Hughes and Hatchers, Kerns, United Shirts, Washington Clothiers, Hudson's and others catered to the needs of the average to the expensive dressing men and women not to the zuit sooters and flappers of that day. When visitors came to Detroit they had shopped at those stores mostly. Visit Birmingham, Royal Oak, and Dearborn and see the independent shop shops that cater to all fashions including casual.

Express clothing email me back stating " They've received several emails from Detroiter interested in there store setting up shop downtown. They are aware of Detroits comeback and looking to invest in the future.

WHAT ABOUT NOW!!! IT MIGHT NOT BE A FUTURE..?

[Goose]

Crusise ship passengers are going to want to visit Eastland? Seriously?

I'm pretty sure these folks are paying thousands to see the natural beauty of the Great Lakes. I doubt they're on the hunt for the crappy, declining suburban malls of the Rust Belt.

lol

eastland mall, now on par with the top 10 shopping districts in the world.... and after you are done shopping, stop by applebee's for your souvenier mug[[ging)......

[Red Devil]

Kwame Kilpatrick as your ship's yeoman-purser

[stasu1213]

lol

eastland mall, now on par with the top 10 shopping districts in the world.... and after you are done shopping, stop by applebee's for your souvenier mug[[ging)......

I had included eastland mall for it is a short distance from downtown compared to the others. Vans could just travel up Jefferson to Vernier for a direct or alternative route instead of I94. Eastland would probably step up it's game once the manager of the mall discovers that visitors and tourist will shop there. There are also stores such as Sears, Burlington, Target, and Macys that tourists would shop at for the prices are not expensive and the basic needs could be purchased at those stores.Detroit need to get stores downtown that cater to the common shopper so tourists would not be force to shop miles away from where their hotels are

[Hermod]

Crusise ship passengers are going to want to visit Eastland? Seriously?

I'm pretty sure these folks are paying thousands to see the natural beauty of the Great Lakes. I doubt they're on the hunt for the crappy, declining suburban malls of the Rust Belt.

You could have a pre-arranged tour of "the fabulous ruins of Detroit" just like a Rome stop includes the Coliseum. Tour buses would drive through some of the more desolate areas ending with a box lunch at MCS.

[leland_palmer]

I had a chance to walk by today. They are currently working on finishing up that section of the River Walk. More photos at Faded Detroit

[Zozo]

Nice shots, LP. Looks like the River Walk is closed in that area. Is there an easy way to walk around to reconnect to the River Walk? Or does one have to walk down Jefferson and through Hart Plaza to get to the River Walk?

[ScienceFair]

Just follow the sidewalk around the new building and you will connect back to thr Riverwalk just before Hart Plaza.

[Zozo]

Thanks of the info.

[j to the jeremy]

If you read the article, there is already one ship scheduled to stop twice this summer. Time will tell; more options can only help whatever Great Lakes cruise ship industry there is. I'm not surprised that the wackos at the Mackinaw Center downplay it, because anything that involves the dreaded public money is evil.

Except for highways and war

[iheartthed]

You could have a pre-arranged tour of "the fabulous ruins of Detroit" just like a Rome stop includes the Coliseum. Tour buses would drive through some of the more desolate areas ending with a box lunch at MCS.

I know you're just being an ass, but I think Detroit's "ruins" would make a good tour for visitors.

[Hermod]

I know you're just being an ass, but I think Detroit's "ruins" would make a good tour for visitors.

I grew up in Detroit "back in the day" when 1.8 million people still lived there. Detroit has never been a tourist mecca. Yes, if people were "in the area" they might catch the Ford Museum, the Zoo, or Greenfield Village. Most of these attractions [[fine as they are) have mostly appealed to folks in a sixty or so mile radius. The downtown museums like DIA, Dossin, and the DHM are also great institutions, but have never had more than a regional appeal.

I have been on a number of cruises and a Detroit stop would end up just like a Caribbean stop. Dock in the morning, get off the ship, get hustled by a bunch of cab drivers selling tours, shop in some dingy shops for schlock souvenirs, and get back on the ship to sail away. What else do you have to offer? People aren't going to pay for a van ride to some generic USian mall.

[SWMAP]

I have something to add to this discussion at this point.

A few years ago, German cruise ships sailed in the Great Lakes and Detroit was a port of call. Detroit was a great and popular stop for these people. I'm not certain whether the casinos were built then, but I am certain that The Henry Ford and the DIA [[with it's world-famous American and European galleries and collection)and Motown and the Ford Estates, with their gardens by famous European landscaper designer Jens Jensen, were hughly-popular offerings. The time in Detroit included choices of these destinations [[and others) and a meal or two in a nice restaurant. Land transport to the destinations was by luxury coaches headquartered here in the region.

I forget why those ships stopped coming to the Great Lakes, but I do know that Detroit has to offer a lot of what upscale Europeans want to see.

[iheartthed]

I grew up in Detroit "back in the day" when 1.8 million people still lived there. Detroit has never been a tourist mecca. Yes, if people were "in the area" they might catch the Ford Museum, the Zoo, or Greenfield Village. Most of these attractions [[fine as they are) have mostly appealed to folks in a sixty or so mile radius. The downtown museums like DIA, Dossin, and the DHM are also great institutions, but have never had more than a regional appeal.

Detroit was a regional draw. It actually used to be the "big city" that Toronto residents visited for short trips "to the city".

But American urban tourism as we know it today is a relatively new phenomenon. No American city was much of a tourist mecca back in the 1950s and 1960s. When Americans took vacations they went to the beach or to the woods or to resort communities. Then the cities on the coasts realized that there is a lot of money in foreign tourism -- and history is the way to sell it -- so SF and NYC got on board. Then Chicago caught on too. So why shouldn't Detroit make money off of its history? It has every bit as much history to sell as does Chicago.

I have been on a number of cruises and a Detroit stop would end up just like a Caribbean stop. Dock in the morning, get off the ship, get hustled by a bunch of cab drivers selling tours, shop in some dingy shops for schlock souvenirs, and get back on the ship to sail away. What else do you have to offer? People aren't going to pay for a van ride to some generic USian mall.

I agree with that much. Hardly any tourists will be much interested in spending 45 minutes each way on a bus to visit Somerset or Twelve Oaks. The idea sounds absolutely absurd.