COBO may be coming back.

[detmsp]

Why couldn't Bishop revisted the deal after a new city council is seated in January? Why strong-arm this city council who already turned down the deal? Why not let Bing do his job and acquire support for a regional controlled Cobo? Why the grandstanding?

According to the Freep, shovels gotta be in the ground in Novi by September to have the Rock ready for the 2011 show.

Like it or not time is NOT on anyone's side here. The German automakers have agreed to participate in Detroit through next year... if we don't have a plan that leads to a 2011 autoshow in an improved facility [[be it Cobo or other), they walk. And how many others will follow?

I know it looks like they are just trying to strong arm the city, but honestly after years of negotiations and further deterioration of Cobo, it's either time for the Cobo deal to happen or to abandon the idea and go to plan B.

[Locke09]

According to the Freep, shovels gotta be in the ground in Novi by September to have the Rock ready for the 2011 show.

I know it looks like they are just trying to strong arm the city, but honestly after years of negotiations and further deterioration of Cobo, it's either time for the Cobo deal to happen or to abandon the idea and go to plan B.

Fine. If 4 out of the 5 authority members were ready to sign off on a compromise with City Council, and Patterson's person was the only holdout, then strongarm Patterson.

Why reward the person who is the biggest cause of the "years of negotiation"?

[detmsp]

Fine. If 4 out of the 5 authority members were ready to sign off on a compromise with City Council, and Patterson's person was the only holdout, then strongarm Patterson.

Why reward the person who is the biggest cause of the "years of negotiation"?

how would you suggest they strong arm patterson? i totally get what you're saying, i just don't know what they could do to pressure him. the deal can't happen without OC's money, so he holds some powerful bargaining chips

also, for the record i don't buy it that patterson is the sole cause of the problems getting a deal done. i think the city clowncil deserves their fair share of the blame.

[Novine]

"In order for it to become larger than Cobo [[and stay on one level) it would take up the entire site it now occupies."

There's plenty of vacant or low-value use land around the current site. Most of that land is used for storage yards. You can bet that they'll be looking at that land for the building and parking.

"This would mean filling in Wetlands and removing retention basins."

Not if they acquire additional land.

"Currently, the roadways in the area are jammed and cannot handle the traffic that is there now. During smaller events held at Rock, the roads gridlock for periods of time as it is."

Not true. Grand River was rebuilt in the last 10 years with a full 5 lane cross-section from Wixom Road to Novi Road. There's 3 major freeway interchanges in that stretch of roadway. Both Wixom Road and Beck Road were completely rebuilt and Novi Road is being improved today. The backups occur because of how the Rock handles collecting parking fees at their entrance. They can fix that with an expanded facility. If 5 lanes isn't enough, Grand River can be widened.

"Where would you put the cars? Sure you could bus people to the site, but the cars would need to go somewhere."

If the site expands, they can build parking decks or more surface parking.

"Besides, parking is a major revenue producer for a place like the Rock, and they will not give up parking because it will mean lost revenue."

Which is why they will find additional property to handle the parking.

[Locke09]

how would you suggest they strong arm patterson? i totally get what you're saying, i just don't know what they could do to pressure him. the deal can't happen without OC's money, so he holds some powerful bargaining chips

Aren't they planning on giving OC tobacco tax money? Isn't that "state" money?

I haven't looked at the numbers recently, but subtract OC's hotel/liquor tax money from the pot, add in the same tobacco tax money they were going to give OC, and see what can be done with Cobo for that amount.

Besides that, the hotel tax was created expressly for the purpose of the last Cobo expansion wasn't it? Just like the legislature doesn't really need Detroit's approval for what it wants to do, it doesn't really need OC's approval to use that hotel tax/liquor tax/tobacco money however it sees fit.That's not fair to OC, but we're not playing fair anyway, are we?

[Locke09]

detmsp,

Not sure how I missed the last part of your previous post, but I'm just saying that Patterson was part of the holdup for many years, not City Council. City Council has just been part of the holdup for about 3 or 4 months.

[Novine]

"Besides that, the hotel tax was created expressly for the purpose of the last Cobo expansion wasn't it? Just like the legislature doesn't really need Detroit's approval for what it wants to do, it doesn't really need OC's approval to use that hotel tax/liquor tax/tobacco money however it sees fit.That's not fair to OC, but we're not playing fair anyway, are we?"

Locke09, the state legislature can do whatever it wants. But what makes you think that Lansing, especially Senate Republicans, are going to do something for Detroit before they do it for LBP? Every County would love to get their hands on the various taxes being funneled to Cobo. Cobo's been sucking up those taxes for years to pay off the building bonds. When that expires in 2015, why do you think that those counties are going to lobby Lansing to keep sending that money to Detroit?

[izzyindetroit]

Could someone please explain to me why there is a push to create an authority for Cobo???

Why not give the city the money to renovate it?

Why is the state willing to give OC and the Rock a large sum of money without an authority?

[heedus]

Could someone please explain to me why there is a push to create an authority for Cobo???

Why not give the city the money to renovate it?

Why is the state willing to give OC and the Rock a large sum of money without an authority?

B/c the tri-county area has already given millions of dollars to the City for Cobo renovations in the past only to see the facility run by at least two individuals, who were later indicted on fraud-related charges. And the Rock Financial Showplace will only be getting money from Oakland County. Since Macomb County and Wayne County won't be contributing any money, they have no say. Therefore, no authority is needed.

[SWMAP]

Who will give the City money to run cobo - which has been a cesspool of graft and patronage under its current owners. Cobo need millions in investment just to keep it the way it is. The current owners don't have that money, and it is because they siphoned off the money they did have to their own election campaigns and family coffers [[as the $1 million in art purchased from Bernard Kilpatrick's girlfriend!). With that history, who will give them the money they need now?

[izzyindetroit]

B/c the tri-county area has already given millions of dollars to the City for Cobo renovations in the past only to see the facility run by at least two individuals, who were later indicted on fraud-related charges. And the Rock Financial Showplace will only be getting money from Oakland County. Since Macomb County and Wayne County won't be contributing any money, they have no say. Therefore, no authority is needed.

Hold up though. The freep article states, "the legislation would earmark state tobacco settlement funds, cigarette tax revenue and Oakland County's share of hotel and liquor tax revenue to fund a $135-million expansion of the Novi facility." What is preventing fraud from happening again with the state money given to the County?

[Novine]

"What is preventing fraud from happening again with the state money given to the County?"

What prevents fraud from happening with any state tax dollars? Cobo has a history of corruption and incompetence. Oakland County does not.

[heedus]

Hold up though. The freep article states, "the legislation would earmark state tobacco settlement funds, cigarette tax revenue and Oakland County's share of hotel and liquor tax revenue to fund a $135-million expansion of the Novi facility." What is preventing fraud from happening again with the state money given to the County?

Sorry. I hadn't read the bills yet. From what I had understood from the news, it was all Oakland County funds. It turns out that $24 million from the State will be used and the remainder will be funded through Oakland County's hotel and liquor tax. So, Oakland County is funding the lion's share of the expansion with a little help from the State. It's nothing like the Cobo deal, where nearly all of the money was coming from the suburbs. Plus, there's the history of incompetence and corruption that Novine references.

This article from Crain's gives a better synopsis than the Freep or Detnews articles: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/905199987

[Novine]

The official write-up from the Senate.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...SFA-0585-S.htm

[Locke09]

Well then, it appears that moving the NAIAS to Novi is not such a big deal. Oakland County can work out the minor details. The NAIAS considers it to be a good Plan B. Council will not approve the same plan, with a threat attached. On the other hand, Patterson was just handed legislation that gives him absolutely no incentive to negotiate.

So move it. As someone said, why waste time with this charade when the shovels need to be in the ground by September.

Detroit should concentrate now on getting its share of the hotel/liquor tax. Detroit should also protest the tobacco tax and cigarette tax money going to Oakland County. We deserve a share of that as well. We might not get it, but we should protest it anyway, to show the hypocrisy of it all.

While the rest of the nation might be hitting bottom and beginning the recovery, this little mitten is continuing to unravel.

[Locke09]

Sorry. I hadn't read the bills yet. From what I had understood from the news, it was all Oakland County funds. It turns out that $24 million from the State will be used and the remainder will be funded through Oakland County's hotel and liquor tax. So, Oakland County is funding the lion's share of the expansion with a little help from the State. It's nothing like the Cobo deal, where nearly all of the money was coming from the suburbs. Plus, there's the history of incompetence and corruption that Novine references.

This article from Crain's gives a better synopsis than the Freep or Detnews articles: http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...FREE/905199987

I think I'm interpreting this correctly:

$135 million is the limit on the amount of bonds that may be sold to expand whatever facility Oakland County chooses to expand. The actual payback on those bonds will be significantly higher, depending on the interest rates.

The bills appear to provide $9 million from one state fund, and then $15 million per year, for the next 30 years, from the health and safety funds to provide money to pay back the bonds. What is Oakland County's annual hotel/liquor tax revenue? It seems more like this is 50/50 to me [[50% state, 50% OC).

[R8RBOB]

Well then, it appears that moving the NAIAS to Novi is not such a big deal. Oakland County can work out the minor details. The NAIAS considers it to be a good Plan B. Council will not approve the same plan, with a threat attached. On the other hand, Patterson was just handed legislation that gives him absolutely no incentive to negotiate.

So move it. As someone said, why waste time with this charade when the shovels need to be in the ground by September.

Detroit should concentrate now on getting its share of the hotel/liquor tax. Detroit should also protest the tobacco tax and cigarette tax money going to Oakland County. We deserve a share of that as well. We might not get it, but we should protest it anyway, to show the hypocrisy of it all.

While the rest of the nation might be hitting bottom and beginning the recovery, this little mitten is continuing to unravel.

You're absolutely correct. L. Brooks Patterson have no reason to cooperate with Detroit to expand Cobo. The Senate Republicans have decided to use a window that was opened with the election of Dave Bing and Cockrel's return to the council to point a gun at the head of Detroit. Since both Bing and Cockrel both support a regional deal for Cobo, it is the perfect time to lay down the hammer and shame Detroit to make the deal happen or lose it to Novi, playing the city vs. suburbs card.

I have a feeling the Republicans know the City Council would never agree to this heavy-handed approach.

[heedus]

Locke09, good catch. Here's the pertinent text of the Senate Bill 586:

IF THE TRANSFER OF A QUALIFIED CONVENTION FACILITY TO AN AUTHORITY IS DISAPPROVED BY THE LEGISLATIVE BODY OF A QUALIFIED CITY UNDER SECTION 19[[1) OF THE REGIONAL CONVENTION FACILITY AUTHORITY ACT, 2008 PA 554, MCL 141.1369, THEN IN THE 2015-2016 FISCAL YEAR THROUGH THE 2029-2030 FISCAL YEAR, $15,000,000.00 OF THE AMOUNT DEPOSITED IN THE FUND UNDER SECTION 3[[2) SHALL BE TRANSFERRED TO AND DEPOSITED IN THE CONVENTION FACILITY DEVELOPMENT FUND CREATED UNDER THE STATE CONVENTION FACILITY DEVELOPMENT ACT, 1985 PA 106, MCL 207.621 TO 207.640, FOR DISTRIBUTION AND USE ONLY IN THE MANNER AND FOR THE PURPOSES STATED IN THAT ACT AND $1,000,000.00 SHALL BE DISTRIBUTED UNDER SUBPARAGRAPHS [[i) AND [[ii).

I quickly read parts of 1985 PA 106 [[see below), and it appears to be fairly broad. I don't know if the full $15M could be used to pay off the bonds annually, but it appears that $15M will at least be deposited annually in the Convention Facility Development Fund.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/[[S[[dwj...ct-106-of-1985

[spartacus]

This isn't a matter of stealing the auto show. L. Brooks has stated several times that he thinks that it should be in Detroit, and I whole heartedly agree. If, however, the options are: to lose it to some other state; or to move it to the suburbs, then anyone who lives in the region should support a move to the suburbs.

Some council members need to swallow their pride and take the deal.

[R8RBOB]

This isn't a matter of stealing the auto show. L. Brooks has stated several times that he thinks that it should be in Detroit, and I whole heartedly agree. If, however, the options are: to lose it to some other state; or to move it to the suburbs, then anyone who lives in the region should support a move to the suburbs.

Some council members need to swallow their pride and take the deal.

Is this the same L. Brooks Patterson who fought for years for expansion of Cobo? Patterson is the now the white knight in all of this? I don't think so. The city of Detroit, Wayne County and the NAIAS have said for years that Cobo needs expansion and one person fought tooth and nail to prevent it. Who was that? The same guy you claim prefer to leave the show in Detroit.

[Doma]

Mark my words: "Detroit will kill this deal".

I have seen this happen in Real Estate too many times, and to much smarter people than the Detroit City Council. Somebody tries to hold out for the big bucks and ends up turning down sensible offers. Later on either due to expenses, market conditions or other unfortunate events the property is lost with no compensation at all. I have always believed that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bushes. Commercial Real Estate 101 states that a buildings tenants largely effect the value of the property. If Detroit loses the Auto Show, it loses it's biggest tenant and it isn't like they can just go out and pluck another international event out of some other city. Bridal shows won't keep this place functioning on ANY level for more than 5-10 years.

Also, I'm fairly certain that with the history of corruption at Cobo, somebody on that council is making $$$ somewhere on the side.

If Detroit doesn't get it right this time, we will have another enormous, vacant building 10 years from now. Right next to the soon to be abandoned JLA [[Which will likely be moved).

Detroit can have a party and the slogan will be "We Won"

CHEAAAAA!!!!!!!

[Jerome10]

Auto show in Novi isn't gonna cut it. Sorry.

I'm not the biggest die-hard Detroit supporter, but this auto show is supposed to be in Detroit. Downtown. At Cobo. I have come from Chicago for years just for the event.

Having it on the corner of 696/96/275 at a suburban convention center would really take a lot of the fun out of the whole thing. I can't honestly see myself planning a weekend around it any more.

With all that said, I do agree Novi is better than losing it completely....but not by much. It moves there, it will also lose its position as the best auto show in the WORLD. The auto companies are already on the fence. Moving it to Novi will be enough of a push to have them focus their biggest reveals in Los Angeles or Chicago.

This Cobo deal needs to happen, or that auto show is as good as dead. It will fall to the level of a San Francisco auto show. Big local event, but nobody outside the city is gonna pay it any attention. Basically its just a big car dealer lot. Its not gonna have big world debuts like it has had for decades.

But do I expect the City of Detroit to come around? Uh, no. These people are straight up morons who would rather slit their own throats, throw the show, Cobo, the money, and everything else down the toilet to keep control of what will be a crumbling monster of an eyesore just out of "principle". Its over. I'm sorry, but they aren't gonna change. Its just over.

And another long-standing great legacy of Detroit will die with it because [[again and again and again and again) the leadership finds ways to ruin just about every thing they possibly can.

NAIAS is dead at Cobo.

[DetroitDad]

I guess what's going to get lost in all of this, is should the Cobo deal get straightened out, and the auto show stays put, when a renovation/expansion gets underway, can we please hire Giffels Associates, who were the original architects of the place to renovate it?

The butchering of the facade in the 80's needs to be stripped away, and the original configuration restored incuding the floating glass room above the porte cochere, and the seven white marble buttresses that supported it.

Then push the expansion out the back, up, whatever. Demo JLA and expand there if necessary.

Since the cheap granite rubix cubes were installed on the facade, and the even cheaper strip mall plastic COBO lettering hung up, it has the look of just that, a suburban strip mall.

And can Marshall Frederick's indian and canoe fountain be placed outside again so we can all enjoy it?

Pictures at and of COBO at the 1960 Auto Show http://www.61thriftpower.com/autoshow.shtml.

[MIRepublic]

I don't personally think Cobo has every looked anything close to beautiful or desirable, and I can't even bring myself to say that the original configuration was 'less ugly'. In a theoretical more healthy and booming Metro Detroit, I'd love to see the thing rebuilt from the ground up. Externally, Cobo's a pig, and it won't matter how much she's gussied up or stripped down. The most one could hope for given the current structure is for a spectacular internal layout when the region returns to good health, and that's about it.

[spartacus]

Is this the same L. Brooks Patterson who fought for years for expansion of Cobo? Patterson is the now the white knight in all of this? I don't think so. The city of Detroit, Wayne County and the NAIAS have said for years that Cobo needs expansion and one person fought tooth and nail to prevent it. Who was that? The same guy you claim prefer to leave the show in Detroit.

He fought it tooth and name because Oakland tax dollars were being thrown into a cesspit of corruption. Don't believe me? The last two guys that ran it are in jail. Patterson supported the deal that was on the table and said that he wants NAIAS to be in Detroit, what more do you want from the guy? It would be irresponsible not to try to keep the show in the region. In the end, the ultimatum is coming from the NAIAS, not from Oakland County.