Detroit overstaffed compared to other cities

[Hermod]

I
Or are we just that bad

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!

[casscorridor]

As was clear from the article, the city has cut a huge number of jobs over the past decade, and cut them faster than the city has lost population. The problem is very similar to the problem with the schools; when you are shrinking rapidly it is hard to cut fast enough. This is a problem I expect the eventual EFM to solve. Although it would be better if the city's political establishment could figure out what is essential and do the cutting itself, I suspect it will be more appealing to let someone else take the blame.

What do you mean the EFM will solve? Solve what? What has the EFM of Detroit Pubic Schools solved?

Obviously not the deficit, as it only increased since Robert Bobb became EFM.

I think I may have an answer... he has solved the problem of democracy, by eliminating it. He has solved the problem of public schooling, by eliminating it.

Problem solved.

[Detroitnerd]

What do you mean the EFM will solve? Solve what? What has the EFM of Detroit Pubic Schools solved?

Obviously not the deficit, as it only increased since Robert Bobb became EFM.

I think I may have an answer... he has solved the problem of democracy, by eliminating it. He has solved the problem of public schooling, by eliminating it.

Problem solved.

That is true. The new mantra seems to be "Democracy for those who can afford it!"

[Kevgoblue]

Just cut off funding for pensions / healthcare for all retirees who no longer live within the city boundaries.
Problem solved. And since they're no longer here it won't even hurt anyone come election time.

[Fnemecek]

That is true. The new mantra seems to be "Democracy for those who can afford it!"

Detroiters pay more in taxes than almost anyone else in the country. Our taxes are roughly double national averages.

And we pay it.

The new mantra, therefore, seems to be "Democracy for those whom Bing/Snyder will let have it." This, in turn, begs the question: why do we allow them to continue to screw us over?

[Fnemecek]

Just cut off funding for pensions / healthcare for all retirees who no longer live within the city boundaries.
Problem solved.

Well, yeah. Assuming, of course, you define the "problem" as "we don't have enough law suits" or "those old folks buy too much stuff".

If you actually want to make Detroit financially sound again, however, the answer isn't in our pensions. We need to look at our debt load and how the various departments are structured.

[Fnemecek]

What do you mean the EFM will solve? Solve what? What has the EFM of Detroit Pubic Schools solved?

Obviously not the deficit, as it only increased since Robert Bobb became EFM.

An EFM can really only do such. DPS is dropping in Detroit because people continue to leave the city.

Its not the fault of anyone within DPS that DPD has a response time often measured with a calendar.

Its not the fault of anyone within DPS that ambulances are broken more often than they work.

No one in DPS proposed the idea of closing DFD fire stations on a rotating basis.

When people get overly frustrated with these problems, they leave the city. When they leave the city, they obviously leave DPS. This creates a declining enrollment, which leads to declining revenue from the State, which leads to the perpetual budget deficits that DPS faces.

There really isn't much that an EMF can do.

[mwilbert]

There really isn't much that an EMF can do.

\\

I don't agree with this. You just have to cut faster. The problem is that you have to be able to anticipate how fast you are bleeding students, and people have been too optimistic. Arguably the current school closing plans will get the costs down someplace near the resources available.

[Locke09]

An EFM can really only do such. DPS is dropping in Detroit because people continue to leave the city.

Its not the fault of anyone within DPS that DPD has a response time often measured with a calendar.

Its not the fault of anyone within DPS that ambulances are broken more often than they work.

No one in DPS proposed the idea of closing DFD fire stations on a rotating basis.

When people get overly frustrated with these problems, they leave the city. When they leave the city, they obviously leave DPS. This creates a declining enrollment, which leads to declining revenue from the State, which leads to the perpetual budget deficits that DPS faces.

There really isn't much that an EMF can do.

Not to worry. From what I'm reading in the papers, the Governor is getting ready to propose that we keep our kids at home and let them get their educations online. He is quoted as saying "some kids learn better by reading and looking at words." Teachers will be replaced by software. Fewer teachers needed, fewer buildings and supplies needed. Should help with the bullying problem, the security problem, the classroom discipline problems, the transportations problems, etc. And none of those pesky human interaction problems to deal with.

[Locke09]

\\

I don't agree with this. You just have to cut faster. The problem is that you have to be able to anticipate how fast you are bleeding students, and people have been too optimistic. Arguably the current school closing plans will get the costs down someplace near the resources available.

You mean like in the 2009/2010 school year when they laid off all those teachers and then didn't have enough teachers for the students who showed up until well into the school year? One school at least had to send students home in October 2009 because there were not enough teachers. Students at some schools were taught by substitutes for months.

[Jimaz]

...Teachers will be replaced by software....

You're being facetious, I hope.

That would be frighteningly ignorant. I have seen equally ignorant ideas proposing to "proceduralize the creative process."

[English]

Not to worry. From what I'm reading in the papers, the Governor is getting ready to propose that we keep our kids at home and let them get their educations online. He is quoted as saying "some kids learn better by reading and looking at words." Teachers will be replaced by software. Fewer teachers needed, fewer buildings and supplies needed. Should help with the bullying problem, the security problem, the classroom discipline problems, the transportations problems, etc. And none of those pesky human interaction problems to deal with.

People have been saying they'll replace teachers with software for years now. I don't doubt that indeed they will... I'm just waiting for the human teacher v. AI value-added assessment.

And whenever people say this [[not you, Locke, but others):
"Should help with the bullying problem, the security problem, the classroom discipline problems, the transportations problems, etc. And none of those pesky human interaction problems to deal with."

Actually, it will exacerbate all of those problems. If you want to homeschool everyone using software and/or AI, you need to return to a 1950s familial and community structure, when so many adults [[mainly mothers) stayed at home that kids could return home for lunch. Homeschooling communes might work for working parent couples and single parents, but I think that most would be surprised that the differentiated instruction required would take far more effort, time, and even expense than traditional schooling.

So imagine we close down Detroit public and/or public charter schools, offer vouchers for suburban and private schools, and tell any other parents that they're responsible for homeschooling their children. I hope people are prepared for anarchy and dystopia.

The solution, in my opinion, isn't EFMs. The solution is to come up with a New Deal for the 21st century - which WON'T be much like the former New Deal. We need comprehensive solutions with our children and grandchildren in mind, and we need less selfishness and NIMBYism.

On a side note, I was very annoyed by the media for not interviewing the student who spoke out at last night's meeting with Robert Bobb. We heard Bobb's rebuttal but not what the young person actually said. I don't think it was profane, but he was making a point and was passionate/frustrated/speaking loudly. It takes great courage for a KID to say something to a powerful official. If there are any local reporters reading this, please strive for more balance in your coverage. Ask the KIDS at Catherine Ferguson, the Day School for the Deaf, and others to talk about their educational experiences.

I am so tired of people with powerful and vested political interests purporting to speak for the kids. Let the kids speak for themselves. I'd be willing to bet they will, as they say themselves, "put everybody on blast!"

[Zacha341]

LOL! All the while your car is getting ticketed... if you park on at a meter one minute beyond expiration. I make sure to go to paid lot when attempting to conduct business downtown.

Anecdotal, but if you've ever tried to get anything done at the City County Building, you will know what kind of overlap there is.

First you go sign in at a clipboard at a desk staffed by someone whose sole purpose in life appears to be to guard the clipboard. Then you go to another desk and pick up a piece of paper from someone whose sole purpose appears to be to guard pieces of paper. Then you go and you pay someone for an unnecessary service someone may come to your property to perform, between the hours of 8 - 4 on a weekday two months in the future, upon which you will then repeat the process.

In the process, you will also be told by several of the flunkies that you are "in the wrong department." There also seems to be several departments in charge of minesweeping.

The problem isn't the number, it is that despite the number, nothing gets done. Nothing. City services are virtually non-existent. The City is nothing more than a jobs mill and permit mill. It does not exist to provide services.

Also, you will nary find an unfriendlier group of people than the city employees. You will be flat out told that you're doing something wrong and they will not help you, all the while with a scowl on their faces.

[mwilbert]

You mean like in the 2009/2010 school year when they laid off all those teachers and then didn't have enough teachers for the students who showed up until well into the school year? One school at least had to send students home in October 2009 because there were not enough teachers. Students at some schools were taught by substitutes for months.

Yes. I have never said that this cutting would make the schools function properly. I don't believe that at all. I simply believe it is possible to cut enough to balance the budget.

[Wesley Mouch]

What do you mean the EFM will solve? Solve what? What has the EFM of Detroit Pubic Schools solved?

I'd say lunch room administrators stealing money from the school, and the elimination of dozens of 'phantom' employees who didn't exist is pretty good for me. Is your buy-in to the party line so strong you missed these?

Obviously not the deficit, as it only increased since Robert Bobb became EFM.

If I remember, this is true. It is however incomplete. He knew he couldn't eliminate all the wasteful spending that fast without doing harm. But if he's allowed to close schools / terminate teachers made redundant by the depopulation of Detroit coupled with parents choice to send their kids to charters, he said the district could have a balanced budget. I think that's pretty good too -- in comparison to anything else accomplished by anyone related in anyway to DPS over the last decade.

[Fnemecek]

\\

I don't agree with this. You just have to cut faster.

If you cut faster than you're bleeding students, you're simply shortchanging the students who haven't left yet.

What are you going to? Put 500 students into 1 classroom because in a few years they'll be down to a more reasonable student/teacher ratio?

Plus, we know that DPS is bleeding students and will likely continue to do so throughout the foreseeable future. However, we don't know the exact rate at which people will leave Detroit.

How exactly does one get ahead of the curve when you don't know exactly where the curve is?

[mwilbert]

If you cut faster than you're bleeding students, you're simply shortchanging the students who haven't left yet.

Yes. But we are talking the DPS here. The students are pretty much hosed to start with.

How exactly does one get ahead of the curve when you don't know exactly where the curve is?

You guess low.

[Locke09]

I was being facetious about software replacing teachers. But increased online education instead of traditional classroom education is part of what Snyder and his education czar are pushing in their speeches now.

As for those making excuses for Bobb, he did have the authority to close schools. He also had the authority to lay off teachers and any other employees he wanted to. He also had the authority to privatize. He in fact did all three things. He didn't do them well and drove even more students away resulting in even less funding for DPS. Not everyone who left Detroit left because of crime. Some left because DPS has actually gotten worse [[not just financially) since he came in.

[English]

I was being facetious about software replacing teachers. But increased online education instead of traditional classroom education is part of what Snyder and his education czar are pushing in their speeches now.

Yep, I knew you were. I always enjoy your posts.