Detroit Prayer Walk draws thousands downtown

[maxx]

Actually, many someones come to your door every minute preaching the benefits of not being religious.
It's called American advertising and it baptized you and me as consumers of all manner of distraction.

That's like saying that schools are anti-Persian because they don't teach Persian. That's a fundamentalist argument: if the schools don't teach creationism, they are anti-religion. Materialism doesn't equal anti-religiosity.

[MizMotown]

Hello Maxx!

lol... how you doin? ACIM is something that needs to be read, practised, and experienced to understand. If at anytime you choose to check it out I'm sure you'll have a much better concept of what it is saying. Your reply is not in-line with the teaching of ACIM. Yes, you are absolutely correct those are my beliefs and millions of others who have chosen the Christian path based on ACIM.

This is what ACIM is: Although Christian in statement, the Course deals with universal spiritual themes." It presents a carefully planned spiritual training program, intended to help us remember our true Identity as God's perfect creation, through the means of forgiveness practiced in our daily relationships. Some have called it a course in spiritual psychology, since the Course makes free use of many psychological concepts and terms such as denial, projection, and dissociation.

The Text is largely theoretical, and presents the thought system on which the Course is based. It is meant to be read in the order given, as it presents a reasoned argument for the thoughts it sets forth.

As the Course states in the introduction to the Text,

The course does not aim at teaching the meaning of love, for that is beyond what can be taught. It does aim, however, at removing the blocks to the awareness of love's presence, which is your natural inheritance.

It definitely is something that either calls to you or it doesn't...

re: Jesus's......Today, thousands of people believe he has, in a sense, come again, in the pages of a book called A Course in Miracles. On every level—spiritual, psychological, philosophical, literary, practical—this book is a towering masterpiece. It is a reflowering of his ancient message that, because of God's Love, we can meet life's difficulties with forgiveness and defenselessness, and thereby live in carefree happiness. Yet it clothes this message in a sophisticated psychology and metaphysics which, in the eyes of many, outshines the insights of history's greatest thinkers.

In my opinion it is an amazing book. Even how it's written is amazing because it's all in parameter. Everytime I open this book new insight is received. It's pretty amazing Maxx but again not for everyone.

[MizMotown]

When it come to diseases such as cancer our mental belief about sickness is so deep rooted in our subconcious and conscious that we believe it to be true. Think about it, our bodies can't do anything without the mind. The mind is where ALL the power is and it's a power that we cannot even fathom. This world we believe to be true. Death we believe to be true. Physical sickness we believe to be true, So of course we experience it. We project what we believe, shared and separate beliefs. Everything "we" or the "ego" has created is for separation and it is ruthless in keeping that illusion alive and well. Everything the "ego" created is in opposition of God's creations. And it's insane and wants us all dead and buried. Spirit says you CHOOSE this but you can choose again. It's not like waving a magic wand though, this sickness we have is ancient. It's not going to be undone over night but ACIM makes you think about undoing all the crazy things you've been taught to believe that ARE crazy when you REALLY think about it.

[SWMAP]

" thousands of people believe he has, in a sense, come again, in the pages of a book called A Course in Miracles."

A Course in Miracles - isn't that supposed to be "channeled wisdom?" How is that different from allowing the ouija board into your home?

Don't you worry about "consulting soothsayers" - something absolutely condemned in scripture?

What is "all in parameter?"

To each his own - but I can't but think this is a swindle...

[Detroitnerd]

I think. I think I answered your question. I think it doesn't make any difference to you. I think that your responses have absolutely no relationship to what I've written. I think you know that but, for some reason, can't stop lashing out at people. I don't know what happened to you but I think it must have been very traumatic. I hope you find peace someday.

Gotta love some of these Christians. Bring up a point of logic with them, and they deny, deny, deny. Then they climb up on the cross and say you're "lashing out" at them.

Remember, as somebody else here pointed out: They weren't asked to disavow their religion or die,.They died because they threatened the power of an authoritarian just like the people who were killed by Bloody Mary and all the other divine right monarchs.

But go on ahead. Trade all the logic and thought of a lifetime for something to believe in. But don't be surprised when atheists think that's foolish ...

[13074Glenfield]

But don't be surprised when atheists think that's foolish ...

Oh, I'm not at all surprised nor do I object if you think it's foolish. I just find it difficult to carry on a dialogue with someone who's so blinded by their ideology that they can't match questions with answers. I don't care that you lash out-- it doesn't harm me-- it's just that it makes you so pitiable. You poor, sad little man. I really do hope that you find peace from whatever it is that torments you so.

[Detroitnerd]

Oh, I'm not at all surprised nor do I object if you think it's foolish. I just find it difficult to carry on a dialogue with someone who's so blinded by their ideology that they can't match questions with answers. I don't care that you lash out-- it doesn't harm me-- it's just that it makes you so pitiable. You poor, sad little man. I really do hope that you find peace from whatever it is that torments you so.

Why don't you keep your pity and just silently turn the other cheek?

[13074Glenfield]

Why don't you keep your pity and just silently turn the other cheek?

No need. You only insult yourself with your ravings.

[Detroitnerd]

Poor, sad, pitiful little DetroitNerd. Sitting at his computer so angry and determined to have the last word. To strike a blow for....well, for nothing really. Standing firmly in the defense of nothing at all. You unfortunate little creature. I feel so sorry for you.

Why feel sorry for me? I'm religion-free by choice. And I don't feel the need to dumb down my life so I can have the all-important answers. Why? Because the mysteries of life are more beautiful than any answers dreamed up by mere men. Because the emotional and psychological games you play don't apply to me. If that upsets you so much, why don't you open your frame of mind to accept that I don't need any pity. I'm quite happy. Perhaps happier than anybody obsessed with religion can be.

[Pam]

You poor, sad little man.

He's not sad. He ends all his posts with a .

[MizMotown]

Don't you worry about "consulting soothsayers" - something absolutely condemned in scripture? NO... lol... the wisdom of whoever authored the thought system in ACIM has been found to be beyond most.

There's absolutely nothing to be "swindled". ACIM is free on the net. There is nothing required to buy from anybody. LIke the bible you can buy your copy or read it in a motel room. Same with ACIM it's freely available.

[MizMotown]

Clarification: iambic pentameter not parameter.

Rather than linear, the Course, as Ken Wapnick has pointed out, is written symphonically: it introduces themes, develops them, lays them aside, and then brings them together, exploring their connections much like a symphony. Rather than simple sentence structure, the Course is written poetically: large portions are written in iambic pentameter, and even those parts not written in this poetic meter have a poetic quality, even occasionally using alliteration and rhyme. Rather than straightforward language, the Course often resorts to the literary language of simile, metaphor, symbol, personification, imagery, and allusion. And rather than carefully defining its terms, the Course, like much literature and poetry, uses terms that are more suggestive than definitive. Terms are rarely strictly defined, but instead have flexible meanings that depend upon the context of the words around them. All of these techniques enhance depth; they reveal deeper layers of meaning and beauty, free words from the limitations of strict definition, and open them up to deeper connotations and connections

[Warrenite84]

MizMotown, ACIM seems a little new-agey to me. I'll stick with my Bible, hasn't failed me yet...

[terryh]

http://www.freep.com/article/2011041...-can-help-city

I don't really understand the point of this.

In my humble opinion, I believe the good people in this city who are mindful of the needs of others, whatever their faith or disbelief, are the ones going to turn around the city. Just hoping Jesus is going to fix things isn't going to help.

It sounds mostly like they're gearing up to proselytize.

The only part I think is useful is this:
"They will also provide medical mobile clinics and distribute thousands of meals to the needy, among other efforts. "
but I'd guess they'll be preaching at the recipients of their charity.

Detroit has also got to be one of the most Christian cities in the WORLD given the high church attendance rates of African Americans, and then the Hispanic Catholics in SW Detroit as well. So I'm not sure how much more Jesus we can cram in here.

Interestingly, we had a cleanup on the eastside on that same day. It would have been nice if some of those people would have joined us to get their hands dirty and really help the city. I think it helped more than their Jesus rally. They would probably be upset that there were nonbelievers and Catholics there helping to clean up the city. I'm guessing they won't be doing stuff like helping the neighborhoods where we really need help.

Oh well. Happy Passover!

Ditto Detroitpole! And if they want strong families they should protest huge health insurance and deductible costs so families have more money to visit Disney land. The praying persons made themselves feel better...you wrote what I was thinking when I read the title...the community would have been better served and motivated by a trash cleanup-pickup.

[Zacha341]

LOL! Can't we all jusssst get along : ) ......

He's not sad. He ends all his posts with a .

[noise]

This was your question:

"How many have died for atheism?"

I answered it. If you and DetroitPole don't like the answer or want to distort anything else that I say, that is your problem, not mine.

Respectfully, I think you've stretched the meaning of the original question. Atheism is not a cause and any of the murderous regimes to which you referred had motives well outside of simply "atheism". Christianity, and any other religion for that matter, is cause enough. It has been THE reason for atrocities to occur. Murder and/or genocide for something you don't believe exists is a logical void, as I see it.

This is an awkward first post on this forum, and for that I apologize. I really appreciate the tone and mostly respectful dialogue in this forum, especially after having read the comments in the Free Press stories about the Terry Jones protest in Dearborn.

[13074Glenfield]

Respectfully, I think you've stretched the meaning of the original question. Atheism is not a cause and any of the murderous regimes to which you referred had motives well outside of simply "atheism". Christianity, and any other religion for that matter, is cause enough. It has been THE reason for atrocities to occur. Murder and/or genocide for something you don't believe exists is a logical void, as I see it.

I think you're wrong here and misinterpret the motives of the communists. They did not slaughter millions because they did not believe in God. They killed in order to further their regimes and to spread Communism. One of the fundamental underpinnings of Communism is atheism. Read Marx and Lenin on this one. [["Religion is the opiate of the masses.") There was no void in their motives. They killed millions order to further communism and atheism is a necessary component of communism. They killed to further the only political system there is where atheism is a necessary component. There's always a political part of this because the killers must have some sort of political power, but that doesn't change why they killed.

[noise]

I think you're wrong here and misinterpret the motives of the communists. They did not slaughter millions because they did not believe in God. They killed in order to further their regimes and to spread Communism. One of the fundamental underpinnings of Communism is atheism. Read Marx and Lenin on this one. So there was no void in their motives. They killed millions order to further communism and atheism is a necessary component of communism.

Food, water, and oxygen are necessary components of communism, as well, but I would never suggest they were the catalyst for any atrocities.

In other words, it's fair to say they committed these acts in the name of communism alone. Well, communism and a severe lack of good judgment.

[13074Glenfield]

Food, water, and oxygen are necessary components of communism, as well, but I would never suggest they were the catalyst for any atrocities.

In other words, it's fair to say they committed these acts in the name of communism alone. Well, communism and a severe lack of good judgment.

Food, water, and oxygen are necessary to life but they are not philosophically necessary to the communist system. When the Communist Chinese imprison a Falun Gong practioner or a Christiam house church leader because their religion is illegal then later execute them, are they not acting to further atheism? Against religion?

[noise]

Food, water, and oxygen are necessary to life but they are not philosophically necessary to the communist system. When the Communist Chinese imprison a Falun Gong practioner or a Christiam house church leader because their religion is illegal then later execute them, are they not acting to further atheism? Against religion?

I would say they're acting to further communism, period. You can't point to atrocities in which atheism, and atheism alone, was the culprit. Unfortunately, you can do that with religion.

Furthermore, atheism isn't so much a belief. It's not something that "exists" in that way. It's a lack of belief. Philosophically, it's simply not the same. The comparisons don't really work.

That said, I understand what you are trying to convey. We'll continue to disagree and that's okay!

[13074Glenfield]

noise, You are severing communism and atheism in a way that the communist leaders never did. If we follow your logic, then no one ever killed in the name of religion either, because religion, and religion alone, was not the culprit. If we use your method, the crusades were about land conquest, the Spanish Inquisition took place so the king could cement his power after ousting the Moors, Mohammed was building an empire, and the Islamic Jihadists are just hacked off about some boundary disputes. It becomes much easier to explain these things in a way the suits our preordained beliefs when we parse the facts and only look to the ones that justify our arguments.

[noise]

noise, You are severing communism and atheism in a way that the communist leaders never did. If we follow your logic, then no one ever killed in the name of religion either, because religion, and religion alone, was not the culprit. If we use your method, the crusades were about land conquest, the Spanish Inquisition took place so the king could cement his power after ousting the Moors, Mohammed was building an empire, and the Islamic Jihadists are just hacked off about some boundary disputes. It becomes much easier to explain these things in a way the suits our preordained beliefs when we parse the facts and only look to the ones that justify our arguments.

Perhaps, but only if you see atheism as a belief instead of a lack of belief. There is a difference in stating, "I'm doing this in the name of God," versus "I'm doing this in the name of...nothing?"

Furthermore, a disdain for religion goes well beyond atheism. Even if I agreed with your premise, I would not be able to agree that atheism in and of itself played ANY part in their actions.

That may call to question what is driving any Christian, Muslim, or person of any other faith to commit heinous acts, but the key word is "faith".

[13074Glenfield]

That may call to question what is driving any Christian, Muslim, or person of any other faith to commit heinous acts, but the key word is "faith".

If I accept your premise that faith is what drove the religious to commit their heinous acts, and atheists have no faith, what drove them to kill more people in the 20th century than had been killed in all the religious wars of all time? No faith? It's just not possible to separate the atheistic beliefs of the Communist mass murderers from their other beliefs in trying to discern their motives. And in the case of the Chinese who imprison and execute believers just for being believers, well their motives are laid bare, aren't they? No, I'm afraid your arguments break down on this one.

[noise]

If I accept your premise that faith is what drove the religious to commit their heinous acts, and atheists have no faith, what drove them to kill more people in the 20th century than had been killed in all the religious wars of all time? No faith? It's just not possible to separate the atheistic beliefs of the Communist mass murderers from their other beliefs in trying to discern their motives. And in the case of the Chinese who imprison and execute believers just for being believers, well their motives are laid bare, aren't they? No, I'm afraid your arguments break down on this one.

I think you're experiencing a failure in understanding the difference between atheism and a hatred of religion.

[13074Glenfield]

I think you're experiencing a failure in understanding the difference between atheism and a hatred of religion.

And I think you fail to understand that they can, and often do, go hand in hand. There, now we've each reached the inevitable conclusion that the other one doesn't get it.