Eastern Market New Development moves forward

**rjk** · April-10-11, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

Gratiot Central Market closes at 5pm not giving a chance for people to stop by being that most people get off work at 5pm.

Next time you go to GCM ask them why they close at 5PM. If you mention to one of the owners that he/she's missing out on the people getting off work at 5PM I don't think he/she's going to say that they never thought of that. Usually businesses are pretty good at reading their crowd and knowing what their hours should be. I'm sure the people at GCM aren't closing at 5PM so they can get home and watch the 6:00 news.

**wolverine** · April-10-11, 04:34 PM

What an excellent development, and great for the city. The improvements just keep coming.

Oh the stupid arguing in this thread. Google some other city markets in other cities. The Milwaukee And Portland Maine Public market has the same vibe as the renderings show and they are absolutely successful and brought more people in.

**rjk** · April-10-11, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by wolverine

What an excellent development, and great for the city. The improvements just keep coming.

Oh the stupid arguing in this thread. Google some other city markets in other cities. The Milwaukee And Portland Maine Public market has the same vibe as the renderings show and they are absolutely successful and brought more people in.

I don't think that anyone is arguing that it won't be successful, only that they don't like the change. I googled the Milwaukee public market and it looks nice, but it looks like something I could get out here in the suburbs.
The sheds are only a small part of the EM experience so I don't think the change is going to ruin EM for the people who don't like it.

**j to the jeremy** · April-10-11, 05:16 PM

And the other sheds have already been renovated, who thinks that was a bad idea? The only difference is now they look wonderful and clean with all of the same old character!

**mwilbert** · April-10-11, 06:27 PM

Next time you go to GCM ask them why they close at 5PM. If you mention to one of the owners that he/she's missing out on the people getting off work at 5PM I don't think he/she's going to say that they never thought of that. Usually businesses are pretty good at reading their crowd and knowing what their hours should be. I'm sure the people at GCM aren't closing at 5PM so they can get home and watch the 6:00 news.

I agree that you have to assume that businesses know what they are doing in terms of their hours [[though I have seen cases where that didn't appear to be true)

In the case of businesses in the Eastern Market area though, there is an additional problem, which is that the whole area is more attractive at times when there are more businesses open, but each operator only controls his own business, so a change that might be desirable if everyone did it, might not be good for any individual business making the change on its own.

I have no idea if there are any times when it would be advisable for Eastern Market stores to be open when they are not now, but this problem is one reason why malls generally require businesses to adopt common hours of operation.

**fryar** · April-10-11, 06:44 PM

I'm obviously out of the loop. All I know is I'm relieved to see that EM in 2015 isn't going to be the same EM I encountered in 2005. That place was pretty dilapidated, just another wasted opportunity.

I am also very happy to see that it is not being replaced by a Whole Foods [[err, Ikea? ;-). That would be like putting a bunch of chains on lower Woodward.

**Tony Codfish** · April-11-11, 10:36 AM

There is a PBS documentary that airs occasionally that provides a look at different large farm markets across the country. Produced by WQED it is titled “To Market To Market To Buy a Fat Pig".

Info on the documentary can be found at
http://www.wqed.org/tv/sebak/market/index.php

Interesting to see how varied the style and offerings of other farm markets are.

**Danny** · April-11-11, 11:05 AM

Are those developers are tear down the historic outdoor Eastern Marketplace building for a Supermarket like building? I like the old Eastern Market Area the way it is.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

I wonder what happen to the Western Market?

Neda, I miss you so.

**Tony Codfish** · April-11-11, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Tony Codfish

There is a PBS documentary that airs occasionally that provides a look at different large farm markets across the country. Produced by WQED it is titled “To Market To Market To Buy a Fat Pig".

Info on the documentary can be found at
http://www.wqed.org/tv/sebak/market/index.php

Interesting to see how varied the style and offerings of other farm markets are.

On that video, You see that some of the markets are entirely indoors ... some entirely outdoors. Some offer a broad selection of prepared or “restaurant” type food - some offer little. Some are set up to the “whole foods” side of things ... others have real, live farmers and livestock.

The video shows how each market has its own character ... and that is the challenge for Eastern Market.

The building blocks of Eastern Market’s character are there already ... real, live farmers selling produce ... some wholesale establishments ... a handful of retail shops and quirky boutiques with a great antique mall. Restaurants.
And significantly ... EM is an outdoor area - essentially an outdoor mall but with all the traffic jammed in.

As I noted in my previous long post, I think the best way to capitalize on what is already there is to improve the pedestrian experience. This should be the first order of business.
As listed in that post [[please read it); this entails improvements that manage the patterns of foot traffic throughout the district. And of critical importance is the appearance of safety ... drastic improvements in the appearance of blight viewable from the customer frequented areas, the management of street-sellers and other issues which cause people to question the safety of the area. Again, people will not shop where they are not comfortable.

The drawings that gthomas included in his initial post are quite similar to what many of the other “farmer’s markets” in that PBS video have. And yes, they will be a positive addition to Eastern Market however they do not capitalize on the existing character of EM ... but instead add a new dimension.

With consideration to the limited capital available for improvements, as I said in my other post, I think that *for the money*, the new developments in shed 4 are “putting the cart before the horse” [[as one might say in the farm market business).

For the money, the greatest synergy and improvement in business volume for the district will be to *first* embrace the character that has already been developed ... and to make those the pedestrian experience as safe, pleasant and customer friendly as possible.

Why continue to let what has already been established go fallow??

**Tony Codfish** · April-11-11, 11:58 AM

1) Develop and implement a comprehensive plan to improve the pedestrian customer experience and the appearance of safety. This would include *moving* the large parking [[lot) which is below shed 2 in front of J.R. Hirt and making that area into a customer friendly park-like setting with plantings, picnic areas and benches as well as a small stage or pavilion.
[[Though it’s not an elevated stage, here’s just one example from downtown Farmington that is a *huge* draw for the shops that surround it ... http://www.downtownfarmington.org/Po...certJune02.jpg )

2) Improve the parking in the district. Carefully coordinate parking into the overall district plan ... well maintained and lighted ... and more of it. Take into account the possibility of some form of public transportation eventually making it’s way into the EM district, and build-out with that in mind.

3) Re-connect Gratiot Market to Eastern Market. Issues of safety, and the appearance of blight and neglect need to be dealt with including the Gratiot frontage. Gratiot Market needs to be incorporated into both the district pedestrian plan and also parking planning.

4) Add the new dimension of a more modern type of interior shed space as posted in gthomas’ original post.

5) Hammer the City and any other government or private resources to connect the People Mover [[or Woodward Streetcar line etc) to the Eastern Market. Establishing a form of public transportation that is, or could be scaled up to, regional public transportation - even better.

**stasu1213** · April-11-11, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tony Codfish

1) Develop and implement a comprehensive plan to improve the pedestrian customer experience and the appearance of safety. This would include *moving* the large parking [[lot) which is below shed 2 in front of J.R. Hirt and making that area into a customer friendly park-like setting with plantings, picnic areas and benches as well as a small stage or pavilion.
[[Though it’s not an elevated stage, here’s just one example from downtown Farmington that is a *huge* draw for the shops that surround it ... http://www.downtownfarmington.org/Po...certJune02.jpg )

2) Improve the parking in the district. Carefully coordinate parking into the overall district plan ... well maintained and lighted ... and more of it. Take into account the possibility of some form of public transportation eventually making it’s way into the EM district, and build-out with that in mind.

3) Re-connect Gratiot Market to Eastern Market. Issues of safety, and the appearance of blight and neglect need to be dealt with including the Gratiot frontage. Gratiot Market needs to be incorporated into both the district pedestrian plan and also parking planning.

4) Add the new dimension of a more modern type of interior shed space as posted in gthomas’ original post.

5) Hammer the City and any other government or private resources to connect the People Mover [[or Woodward Streetcar line etc) to the Eastern Market. Establishing a form of public transportation that is, or could be scaled up to, regional public transportation - even better.

Or have a shuttle bus that will take people from downtown or even from other parts of the city to the Eastern Market

**stasu1213** · April-11-11, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by rjk

Next time you go to GCM ask them why they close at 5PM. If you mention to one of the owners that he/she's missing out on the people getting off work at 5PM I don't think he/she's going to say that they never thought of that. Usually businesses are pretty good at reading their crowd and knowing what their hours should be. I'm sure the people at GCM aren't closing at 5PM so they can get home and watch the 6:00 news.

The crowd would change once the new renovations are completed. The attitudes of some of the shop owners would change also.

bartock · April-12-11, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by stasu1213

The crowd would change once the new renovations are completed. The attitudes of some of the shop owners would change also.

It may be coming
http://www.detnews.com/article/20110411/BIZ/104110392

I think the existing renovations have been stellar, and the new ones look terrific. Nothing about them looks suburban...I just don't get that argument. Besides, it is one shed. Like it or not, if the Market grows and continues to be successful this will mean...gasp!!....more suburbanites will be going there, and the cynacism we love so much on this board will surely follow.

Keilson mentioned something about preserving the character of the old market while having another Eastern Market [[more local) next to it. That is a great idea, and one that could become totally viable. In my opinion the recent and upcoming changes keep the character of the old market. Lord knows there is plenty of room to grow the area towards Mack and towards Chene. [[Who knows, maybe one day that Chene Market will be a satellite for EM).

**gthomas** · April-13-11, 10:39 AM

Theres is a need to expand, also Eastern market needs more residential between chene and russell. Theres alot of space east of russell and north of FD lofts. Too much land..nice townhomes or lofts can fit well in Eastern Market.

**Blue** · April-13-11, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive

Like there's much difference.

in fact there is. The Eastern Market Corporation is a company and like every company is looking for profit. They will impove the Eastern Market to make more profit and attract more people to come there.
That is usually a good thing. But in Detroit people seem to be more interested in keeping things "the way they are". Which might be the whole problem right there.
It is sad that some people try to make things thrive and others just bash them because they are afraid of change. If there is a city that needs change then it is Detroit.
And if the Eastern Market gets people to come Downtown and leave money there instead of spending it in Royal Oak, then what is so bad about it?
Besides that - if you want people to move back into the city, these people need to get their groceries somewhere.

**canuck** · April-13-11, 07:01 PM

The important thing is to make shopping there fun and complex in a good way. People need to take the time to experience and merchants need folks to linger. I personally dont fancy the supermarkets who try to pass themselves off for a public market and charge exorbitant prices for polished apples etc... But I can dig public markets with fancy shops and cafes alongside simple stalls. It looks like a real magnet for suburban folks to come to the city. Perfect.

**gthomas** · April-20-11, 02:26 PM

They show some residential plans for ..I believe Shed 7 & 8? pretty nice...look at all the pics under Eastern Market 360.

http://www.thekraemeredge.com/index....orporation_360

**gthomas** · April-20-11, 02:36 PM

Would be pretty sweet if they had plans for the two entrance into Eastern Market from Mack & Russell, and Russell & 75/Gratiot pedestrian bridge entrance.Nice Historic Gateway Sign of some sort....? Also, have shuttle around the city to help citizens who want to come on weekends..? Not sure if they do that already?

**stasu1213** · April-20-11, 06:20 PM

I still say that the Gratiot facade of the Gratiot Central Market is due for a 21st Century facelift. Maybe a large picture plate window would do

**gthomas** · April-20-11, 06:58 PM

yes i agree..stasu1213!!!! On both side of the Gratiot storefronts should be open up, kind of a "Gateway" to Eastern market. Across the street from Central market can be small shops/restaurant and retail.

**stasu1213** · April-20-11, 09:18 PM

That whole Gratoit corridor from Russell north to I375 could use a redevelopement. I know that those building that lined the corridor are lofts above the storefront but the storefronts could be used where places such as tea or coffeeshops, an herbal healthfood store, a bakeryshop such as the one on Gratoit and McClellan called On the Rise Bakery, and maybe another drygoods store. The storefront could still keep the vintage feel the Busybee Hardware has with the old fashioned neon lights. I had approached the owner of the candlestick store on the corner of Gratoit and Russel with the idea of selling different types of herbal teas and coffees. She had dismissed the idea saying that she had tried selling tea once but it didn't work. I had told her that Eastern Market is expanding and a tea shop on Gratiot would complement the market itself

**gthomas** · April-20-11, 09:42 PM

I was going to say the same thing about having redevelopment plans along gratiot from russell to I-375...you beat me to it. Could increase foot traffic in a area with little to no foot traffic. That part of gratiot needs to be a key to the redevelopment of Eastern Market. Detroit has problems on creating " Gateways" to certain neighborhoods and connecting it others neighborhood. I think thats the problem..? More pedestrian friendly...connectivity is key...more infills.

**gthomas** · April-20-11, 10:00 PM

A 24-hour tea/coffee house with an old Eastern market feel...on gratiot? Can really create change that area in that dark, dead, stretch of gratiot? Just saying...

**royce** · April-24-11, 09:58 PM

Instead of just the pedestrian bridge that crosses over I-75, maybe a plaza could be built from the point of where the pedestrian bridge is to Russell St. That would open up the area for the flea market activity that currently goes on on the bridge now. People typically crossing at Russell would have more of a reason to check out what's going on at the flea market.

Also, it would be nice to see a restaurant or bar/nightclub go on the ground floor of the Atlas Furniture Bldg. It would add some nighttime traffic to the area. In addition, some residences at the corner of Gratiot and Russell would increase pedestrian traffic in the area as well.

Finally, there was talk of opening up Russell Street at Antietam to make travel by car from Lafayette Park to Eastern Market easier, but I haven't heard anything in years but I think it would be a good idea. The car traffic would probably increase the pedestrian traffic because the area would feel less isolated and therefore feel safer to walk.

drippyhollows · April-24-11, 11:05 PM

Eastern Market could stand to expand. Would be a decent spot for an actual grocery store. If Detroit stands a chance it needs to provide basic needs. As it stands... to live and work downtown without a 7 day a week supermarket is probably a deal breaker for some people. You need to drive to 10 miles both ways to buy milk and eggs. That really would be a step in the right direction. Make the city more livable. Attract young professionals. As soon as they decide to have kids all bets are off but atleast you get tax revenue from them before that happens.