Light rail produces a burst of development, but not everywhere

[begingri]

By: Philip Langdon


New Urban Network

The Denver, Charlotte, and Minneapolis-St. Paul regions all opened new light-rail lines between 2004 and 2007, aiming to enhance their transportation systems and at the same time encourage efficiently-placed real estate development.

They got much of what they were looking for. “All three transit lines experienced a tremendous amount of new development” — 6.7 million square feet along the Twin Cities’ Hiawatha Line, 7.8 million square feet along Denver’s Southeast Corridor, and 9.8 million square feet served by Charlotte’s Blue Line, says a new report from the Center for Transit-Oriented Development.

The 80-page analysis, Rails to Real Estate: Development Patterns Along Three New Transit Lines, says residential construction came on particularly strong. In the Twin Cities, 86 percent of the development near the 12-mile Hiawatha Line was housing. In Denver, 68 percent was housing, and in Charlotte, 54 percent.

But if anyone expected development to crop up at every station, there was cause for disappointment. Transit-oriented development [[TOD) concentrated primarily in areas that already had plenty of jobs or amenities to offer.

Seventy-two percent of development along the Hiawatha Line clustered in downtown Minneapolis. Sixty-four percent of development served by the Blue Line arose in Charlotte’s downtown. Much residential construction along Denver’s Southeast Corridor appeared to be the result of being near the Denver Technology Center, a major employment center.

Rails to Real Estate suggests why some rail-served locations appealed to developers and residents, while others didn’t. The answers vary from one metro area to another.

In Denver’s southeast suburbs, the 19-mile Southeast Corridor line — the second of what will eventually be a regional network of light-rail lines — was built in the right-of-way of Interstate 25. That turns out to have been a bad decision, at least from a real estate and community-building perspective.


Continued at: http://newurbannetwork.com/article/l...erywhere-14344

[mwilbert]

This is an interesting link, but it seems to be written around a theoretical controversy where I wouldn't think one exists:

But if anyone expected development to crop up at every station, there was cause for disappointment. Transit-oriented development [[TOD) concentrated primarily in areas that already had plenty of jobs or amenities to offer.

Did anyone actually expect that? This seems a lot like a straw man to me. Also not very surprising that rail stations in the middle of freeways aren't attractive to development.

[j to the jeremy]

This is an interesting link, but it seems to be written around a theoretical controversy where I wouldn't think one exists:



Did anyone actually expect that? This seems a lot like a straw man to me. Also not very surprising that rail stations in the middle of freeways aren't attractive to development.

I agree- in the short run, who expects every single station to transform its immediate surroundings? Most initial development will happen downtown because that's where there's already a high density of diverse businesses. In our case, I could see Highland Park experiencing a lot of development, seeing as it's a sort of "secondary" downtown for a lot of people doing everyday shopping.[[Forman Mills, Aldi, dollar stores, etc)

[esp1986]

I agree- in the short run, who expects every single station to transform its immediate surroundings? Most initial development will happen downtown because that's where there's already a high density of diverse businesses. In our case, I could see Highland Park experiencing a lot of development, seeing as it's a sort of "secondary" downtown for a lot of people doing everyday shopping.[[Forman Mills, Aldi, dollar stores, etc)

For the most part, Woodward already has jobs around it. Granted they are sparce in some areas, but most areas have a few businesses with a few vacant storefronts sprinkled in.

You will certainly see development Downtown, Midtown, New Center. Vacant storefronts will slowly be filled. My curiosity is attracted to Highland Park. I am led to believe that development could spur there too, but one stretch in H.P. is about the most sparcely occupied part of the Woodward Corridor, not including Lower Midtown.

[DetroitPlanner]

The Hiawatha line has a lot going for it. It ties together the airport, downtowm MPS and th Mall of America. It makes it easy to count development as being on the line even though it may be unrelated or only partially supported by it.

Woodward would have one major draw, downtown, but several smaller draws such as the Med Center, DIA/Wayne, New Center, then finally end at 8 Mile. If we could bring it up a few miles so that it serves the Zoo and Royal Oak then it would be a lot better, but politically that will have a lot of obstacles [[heck there will be a lot between Detroit and HP once it gets that far!).

[Gsgeorge]

Yes, if Light Rail stopped at 9 mile instead of 8, the line would be hugely more successful. But the hope is that we build it to 8 mile, then the suburbs want in on it too when they see the impact it has on Midtown. Hopefully it will go all the way to Birmingham, maybe even Pontiac, one day...

[Vox]

Yes, if Light Rail stopped at 9 mile instead of 8, the line would be hugely more successful. But the hope is that we build it to 8 mile, then the suburbs want in on it too when they see the impact it has on Midtown. Hopefully it will go all the way to Birmingham, maybe even Pontiac, one day...

This wholle scheme depends largely on the success of any feeder lines that can connect to it. You have to be able to get somewhere else from the light rail, and pinning hopes on development just starves off resources elsewhere in the city. As long as I can take a bus to the light rail, I'm good. Or even park and ride from the ex-fairgrounds.

[iheartthed]

Yes, if Light Rail stopped at 9 mile instead of 8, the line would be hugely more successful. But the hope is that we build it to 8 mile, then the suburbs want in on it too when they see the impact it has on Midtown. Hopefully it will go all the way to Birmingham, maybe even Pontiac, one day...

How many people within half a mile of 9 Mile commute to a destination along Woodward between Jefferson and 9 Mile? I doubt that extending it to 9 Mile would make it much more successful, though I do agree that the line should go into Ferndale. But after Ferndale, I think more effort should be spent on restoring rail transit to the other radial corridors in Detroit, like Michigan, Grand River, Jefferson and Gratiot.

[esp1986]

Yes, if Light Rail stopped at 9 mile instead of 8, the line would be hugely more successful. But the hope is that we build it to 8 mile, then the suburbs want in on it too when they see the impact it has on Midtown. Hopefully it will go all the way to Birmingham, maybe even Pontiac, one day...

It has to make it at least to the Zoo. Nine mile would be great too, Downtown Ferndale is a popular place these days... drove up from Lafayette Park this weekend, only problem was I then had to drive home. Getting to the Zoo would be great, and within a stone's throw of Downtown Royal Oak would be awesome, so many young people not only live there, but also go up there to party that it would be a big draw for the line. The biggest obstacle will be crossing the line into OC. Not many cities up there could foot construction costs for a portion of the line by themselves, and LB Patterson has said OC will not directly fund construction. So it will take some creative financing/taxing arrangement to get it to happen.

[ghettopalmetto]

I'm curious to know if SMART, Royal Oak or Ferndale have thought about starting a shuttle bus service to get people to/from those two business districts to the Eight Mile Road light rail station. I know SMART is probably strapped for resources, but you'd think that the businesses in Royal Oak and Ferndale would have every interest.

[Brian1979]

I'd say that it gets extended along Woodward no farther than the zoo and that is probably a little too far, I'd say it only goes to 8 Mile and that's it. Most suburban areas in the U.S. are dependent on the automobile and Detroit should be no different. I'd love to see something in Detroit resemble the Chicago El, but without the lines going down the expressway medians. If you want a good example of the Chicago El going over a street for a good distance look at the green line along Lake Street on Chicago's westside. I think something like that could work along Woodward.

So say if Grand River got a line how far out Grand River would you extend it? I think Farmington would be the ulitmate but I don't think it would go much past the Southfield/5 Mile interchange.

It sure is long overdue for Detroit to be getting a rail transit.

[Russix]

...
So say if Grand River got a line how far out Grand River would you extend it? I think Farmington would be the ulitmate but I don't think it would go much past the Southfield/5 Mile interchange.
...

Telegraph is on the list, it would atleast go to Telegraph so it wouldn't dead end somewhere, likewise 8 Mile is on the list too. Grand River widens around Telegraph and the defunct section of I-96, now M-5 would push it nicely through Farmington and out to Novi.

[esp1986]

I'm curious to know if SMART, Royal Oak or Ferndale have thought about starting a shuttle bus service to get people to/from those two business districts to the Eight Mile Road light rail station. I know SMART is probably strapped for resources, but you'd think that the businesses in Royal Oak and Ferndale would have every interest.

I know I'm curious to see if SMART and DDOT changes their routes at all to accomodate for the lessened ridership burden once the rail line is up and running. I know there are federal rules regarding cutting service as the result of a federal project, but I believe the resources can be distributed a little differently.

[Russix]

I know I'm curious to see if SMART and DDOT changes their routes at all to accomodate for the lessened ridership burden once the rail line is up and running. I know there are federal rules regarding cutting service as the result of a federal project, but I believe the resources can be distributed a little differently.

Isn't DDOT running a 53 Woodward Bus every 5-8 minutes during peak hours? I'm sure route frequency will be adjusted once new statistics on bus utilization come in after it's built. One thing I hope to see is SMART concentrate their existing Woodward services N of 8 Mile to better connect OC to the light rail line. I think this a critical part of light rail's success and future expansion north.

[casscorridor]

The question of needing to extend the rail into Ferndale/Royal Oak keeps coming up again and again on this forum. I think it's a good idea [[especially to connect the Zoo) but it is not neccesary for the rail's success. It has already been established that current bus ridership is high enough on Woodward ave in Detroit to support rail.

As far as TOD, Downtown to New Center will naturally be the center of development. Making this area into a 24/7 walkable area is essential for any comeback. And with the large amount of vacant land, there will be plenty of room for new developments such as Whole Foods.

[Brian1979]

Something else that might work along a street like Woodward in the suburbs would be a dedicated bus lane, if 8 Mile was the terminal for the light rail then there could be a bus transfer there with service to Pontiac.

[Jason]

The zoo doesn't make a lot of sense as a terminating point. It would be a good thing to connect to the system, but I don't think it's much of a destination volume wise. Ideally you end transit lines at big destinations, to help maximize ridership on the entire length of the line. Downtown Royal Oak would be a great place to end the line.

[professorscott]

The zoo doesn't make a lot of sense as a terminating point. It would be a good thing to connect to the system, but I don't think it's much of a destination volume wise. Ideally you end transit lines at big destinations, to help maximize ridership on the entire length of the line. Downtown Royal Oak would be a great place to end the line.

Yep, either downtown Royal Oak or downtown Birmingham or perhaps the Birmingham Transit Center. Those are the only three places that make any sense.

[EL Jimbo]

Yep, either downtown Royal Oak or downtown Birmingham or perhaps the Birmingham Transit Center. Those are the only three places that make any sense.

I'd like to see a stop at Woodward and 10 mile for the Zoo, then have the route turn up Main St. in Royal Oak and have a stop at Main and 4th Street in downtown Royal Oak [[which would be a great spot to connect with the commuter rail line I'd love to see running between Detroit and Flint with stops in Pontiac, Birmingham, and Royal Oak). Then the route would turn at 11 mile and come back to Woodward where it would have its northern terminus in Birmingham.

[DetroitPlanner]

The zoo doesn't make a lot of sense as a terminating point. It would be a good thing to connect to the system, but I don't think it's much of a destination volume wise. Ideally you end transit lines at big destinations, to help maximize ridership on the entire length of the line. Downtown Royal Oak would be a great place to end the line.

I'd have to disagree with you here. The zoo is a major attraction and attract families travelling and staying in downtown hotels who do not have a car. A lot more people visit the Zoo than any of the museums. Just because you don't go to it don't mean is sits empty. I don't go to the Gibraltar Trade Center but know lots of people do by just looking at its parking lot [[once was enough for me).

[EL Jimbo]

I'd have to disagree with you here. The zoo is a major attraction and attract families travelling and staying in downtown hotels who do not have a car. A lot more people visit the Zoo than any of the museums. Just because you don't go to it don't mean is sits empty. I don't go to the Gibraltar Trade Center but know lots of people do by just looking at its parking lot [[once was enough for me).

I see your point, but I think you missed jason's point. I don't think he was arguing against a zoo stop. What he was saying is that the zoo shouldn't be the end of the line for light rail.

[mwilbert]

I think a strong case could be made for going to 9 mile; Ferndale is walkable already, there are a number of potential destinations, and it shouldn't cost that much. It would be useful to go on to Royal Oak, but I expect that dealing with the mess at Woodward and 696 would have to be expensive, along with making it safe for kids to get from the train to the zoo.

[mwilbert]

I think it's just a misunderstanding that those people have with how these systems work. Going to Farmington from downtown Detroit is a 30-40 minute drive with no traffic in a car on the freeway. It would take a light rail street car several hours to make that trip. Those distances are much better served by commuter rail, and commuter rail stations are more suitable to serving moderate density suburbs like Farmington.

I agree with the sentiment, but it shouldn't take "several hours". It's only a little over 20 miles down Grand River, two hours should cover it easily.

[iheartthed]

I agree with the sentiment, but it shouldn't take "several hours". It's only a little over 20 miles down Grand River, two hours should cover it easily.

It's twenty miles of stopping every half mile and being impeded by cross traffic, since this isn't a grade separated system. The A line of the New York City subway is roughly 20 miles in length, express for much of its run, and is also completely grade separated, yet it still takes about 2 hours from end to end. So there is no way that this light rail line makes it back and forth to Farmington in the same amount of time.

[EL Jimbo]

It's twenty miles of stopping every half mile and being impeded by cross traffic, since this isn't a grade separated system. The A line of the New York City subway is roughly 20 miles in length, express for much of its run, and is also completely grade separated, yet it still takes about 2 hours from end to end. So there is no way that this light rail line makes it back and forth to Farmington in the same amount of time.

Too many stops. One mile stops are better. Some studies have shown that people are willing to walk up to a half mile to get to light rail transit. Therefore if you space transit stops one mile apart, you will have maximum efficiency for each stop.