4,730 jobs lost as Detroit 187 & other films leave state thanks to Rick

[illwill]

Your title was a little misleading...

Has Detroit 1-8-7 actually come out with a statement saying they're leaving because of the credit loss or are you over reacting to?

Also, there is nothing wrong with chasing your dreams. If this means moving to LA or NYC then you must go after your goals. Or you can create them here in Detroit, a great city for creative opportunities. Look at Michael Moore and Jeff Daniels.

There are options other than NYC and LA. Detroit is one of them.

[canuck]

I'm disappointed because Detroit needs this push at diversification and the opportunities it would create for local producers to emerge and invest. As mentioned above, workers who reside and pay taxes as well as spend in Michigan is what this is all about. There are a lot worse things for the state to spend on. It means the difference between educating and training folks who leave the state, vacate neighborhoods and schools, and enrich other parts of the US to Michigan's detriment. I hope for a reversal of this policy.

[sumas]

Strangely, I totally support the film subsidy. Even if we don't recapture that money, filming here added a little spice to our life.

[reddog289]

You know I hate to see jobs and jobs that could have been leave the state.As with anything I think of the whole Hollywood visits Detroit / Michigan deal as a flash in the pan.Another Grandholm Cool Idea.
And like a Gateway 2000 store, Here Today, Gone Tomarrow.

[Meddle]

The farce TV show that couldn't distinguish Michigan from California was canceled because it was too stupid for people to watch. So those jobs were gone anyways. The other movie jobs were transient positions, they come in for a while, then leave, so you can't count any of those jobs.

Yes there will be some loss to peripheral support businesses and some may fail as a result.

[reddog289]

I work afternoons, Therefore I am not a steady viewer of primetime shows. I have watched Detroit 187. Yet not enuff to make a judgement as to weather or not I care if it stays or goes.
This is the Motor City, Not Hollywood. Like it or not thats what it is.

[Thruster315]

The other movie jobs were transient positions, they come in for a while, then leave, so you can't count any of those jobs.

Yes there will be some loss to peripheral support businesses and some may fail as a result.

I think what people really fail to see here is that almost ALL jobs in the entertainment industry are gypsy like in nature. Once a movie or animated feature is done- most of those people are out on the streets again. But just because they're out on the streets again doesn't mean they're unemployable. They quickly reform again at some other production.

So sure, these jobs aren't your typical work 40+ hours on the line for 25+ years until you receive a pension sort of jobs but they are steady. Most of the people I know who work in the film industry are a skilled work force- it's not just sheep and extras. They have abilities that can land them gigs constantly. I don't see anything wrong with having an agile and nimble work force that can transition from one gig to another and can maintain this for years. I think this is a much better scenario than the factory workers who have one specialized skill that is so locked into their industry that they're locked into it and can sink at a moment's notice when their industry tanks.

Seeing the state of Michigan get so comfortable and fat on the auto industry for so long, it was a pleasant change to see a different industry come into play here for awhile. It gave our state a buzz and I see it doing as much for morale and tourism as the Pure Michigan campaign that the governor just poured more money into. The fact that the celebrities who came into town here had some really nice things to say about us was a nice change as well; when was the last time any of us heard anything on a national level that was supportive or in praise of Detroit?

[Thruster315]

You know I hate to see jobs and jobs that could have been leave the state.As with anything I think of the whole Hollywood visits Detroit / Michigan deal as a flash in the pan.Another Grandholm Cool Idea.
And like a Gateway 2000 store, Here Today, Gone Tomarrow.

If memory serves me correctly, the initial idea to start this Film Incentive plan was Republican in nature. It was approved and supported by both parties years ago and to pin the blame solely on Jennifer Granholm is wrong.

[Meddle]

Seeing the state of Michigan get so comfortable and fat on the auto industry for so long, it was a pleasant change to see a different industry come into play here for awhile. It gave our state a buzz and I see it doing as much for morale and tourism as the Pure Michigan campaign that the governor just poured more money into. The fact that the celebrities who came into town here had some really nice things to say about us was a nice change as well; when was the last time any of us heard anything on a national level that was supportive or in praise of Detroit?

But what you're missing is that they didn't come to stay. They came, they took, they ran. If they were using the credits to establish a long term presence, it might be different. If they had shown a vested interest by building studios and sets the likes of what you see in LA, NY or Vancouver, people might feel differently. Let the credits go to movie and TV companies who build and staff their headquarters in the state, not to the transient road companies. Require that they hire and train a significant percentage of locals into long term positions. It wouldn't matter if those positions were on-camera or off in some management, production, support or technical capacity.

[Packman41]

I'm also pretty shocked at how unsupportive you all are! I thought this board was full of forward-thinking Detroiters who want to see this state succeed. This is your young, educated people we're talking about here. And older professionals who have not had luck in the Auto industry. We are all going to leave, and you all scoff at us like we don't deserve to be here?

Maybe because the facts are against you.

The film subsidy supporters always want to bring up the E&Y Michigan report. But they NEVER want to mention everything that is in that report.

Especially, the part where E&Y admits, "It is important to note that the budgetary impact of the film tax credit … was SIGNIFICANTLY less than the credits earned."

But the supporters always only point to the misleading numbers from the E&Y study. They always leave out the most important element of the equation — that “economic activity” does not come close to repaying Michigan taxpayers the more than $130 million they've handed out to Hollywood over the past two years.

The state only recovered about $37 million in tax revenue, a NET LOSS of about $100 million.

The film lobby doesn't talk about this, the key number in the report.

An MSU economist, Charles Ballard, oversaw a study on the credits last year and came to the same conclusion as the Senate Fiscal Agency did in its report on the subsidy — that they're a NET DRAIN on state finances. The SFA said the subsidies "represent lost revenue and do not generate sufficient private sector activity to offset their costs completely."

Maybe losing $100 million is not a lot of money to you, but I think it is a lot of money.

[Mikeg]

I'm also pretty shocked at how unsupportive you all are! I thought this board was full of forward-thinking Detroiters who want to see this state succeed. This is your young, educated people we're talking about here. And older professionals who have not had luck in the Auto industry. We are all going to leave, and you all scoff at us like we don't deserve to be here?

I'm also pretty shocked at your vulgar and dismissive attitude towards Michigan's legitimately-elected leaders who for the first time in many years are attempting to put this state's fiscal house in order without relying on gimmicks and one-time fixes. Your characterization of them as sitting around with a digit inserted in a body orifice implies they are doing nothing when in fact it is just the opposite. The generous flow of taxpayer dollars to the film industry is being necessarily reduced and your response is to belittle it:

That is nothing. That is not enough for the thousands of people like myself and my friends to find work.

Is that any way to encourage us to call Rick's office and become vocal film incentive supporters? Is this the new way Michigan is supposed to keep the unemployment rate low and "save" on UI expenditures?

When I call Rick's office, how long should I tell them the film industry deserves to continue getting production credits? Five years? Ten years? What is the right percentage - an arbitrary amount that is just below the highest other state's film credit or one that our broke-ass state treasury can afford?

[Gsgeorge]

You know I hate to see jobs and jobs that could have been leave the state.As with anything I think of the whole Hollywood visits Detroit / Michigan deal as a flash in the pan.Another Grandholm Cool Idea.
And like a Gateway 2000 store, Here Today, Gone Tomarrow.

Once again you have the totally wrong idea about this whole thing. For each film that came in, maybe 5-25 people were from out-of-state. Film crews are composed of hundreds of people, and thousands of extras. All of those people were from Michigan, earning in Michigan, living in Michigan.

This was not Granholm's idea. The original proposal was put forward by Bill Huizenga, R-Zeeland, and co-sponsored by Jason Allen and Tom George, also Republicans. It was passed unanimously in the Senate with only 1 dissenting vote. NOT a Granholm idea. It's one of the only bills that has passed in this state with such a huge percentage of approving votes.

Alaska even has an incentive, and guess who put it into law -- SARAH PALIN. If Republicans AND Democrats both see the benefit in this kind of incentive, then it must be for a reason.

The farce TV show that couldn't distinguish Michigan from California was canceled because it was too stupid for people to watch. So those jobs were gone anyways. The other movie jobs were transient positions, they come in for a while, then leave, so you can't count any of those jobs.

Yes there will be some loss to peripheral support businesses and some may fail as a result.

The point is not whether you liked the show. Hell, I didn't like it either. The point is it employs THOUSANDS of Michigan workers. I am not a huge fan of the Ford Explorer, but I hope that Ford does well economically and hires thousands of people here. Not to mention, this show brought economic activity to Highland Park, of all places, in the form of a beautiful soundstage and production facility.

But what you're missing is that they didn't come to stay. They came, they took, they ran. If they were using the credits to establish a long term presence, it might be different. If they had shown a vested interest by building studios and sets the likes of what you see in LA, NY or Vancouver, people might feel differently. Let the credits go to movie and TV companies who build and staff their headquarters in the state, not to the transient road companies. Require that they hire and train a significant percentage of locals into long term positions. It wouldn't matter if those positions were on-camera or off in some management, production, support or technical capacity.

Once again, totally wrong. There have been major investments from out-of-state and in-state players in state-of-the-art, permanent sound stages in the form of Raleigh Studios, 10 West Studios in Manistee, and Maxsar Digital Studios in Livonia. We have also seen major upgrades to our rental houses and post-production facilities, which has led to increased employment at these companies.

The state only recovered about $37 million in tax revenue, a NET LOSS of about $100 million.

The film lobby doesn't talk about this, the key number in the report.

An MSU economist, Charles Ballard, oversaw a study on the credits last year and came to the same conclusion as the Senate Fiscal Agency did in its report on the subsidy — that they're a NET DRAIN on state finances. The SFA said the subsidies "represent lost revenue and do not generate sufficient private sector activity to offset their costs completely."

Maybe losing $100 million is not a lot of money to you, but I think it is a lot of money.

It's not $100 million. Here is what the E&Y study says was the net cost to state, after factoring in taxes coming in on new wages, econonmic activity generated by the money coming in, reduction in unemployment thanks to people being hired, and per diems being spent [[which is not rebated by the state):

It is important to note that the budgetary impact of the film tax credit in 2009 and 2010 was
significantly less than the credits earned in those years. In 2009, credits claimed totaled $34.6
million and in 2010 credits claimed totaled $60.4 million. Comparing the credits claimed in each
year with the estimated tax impact from qualified production activities in those years, the net state
and local budgetary cost was $14.1 million in 2009 and $28.0 million in 2010.

So for a total of cost to the state of $42.1M over TWO YEARS, we have had thousands of jobs created, new investments made in permanent infrastructure in the state, dozens of small businesses saved from bankruptcy, reversing the brain drain, diversifying our economy, and not to mention a lot of great publicity to our otherwise embarrassingly weakened state. I say you gotta spend a little money to make money. We didn't even give these credits 5 years to see how the economic investments might override the loss to the state. $42M is such a ridiculously small amount of the total budget, way less than 1 tenth of a percentage of the total budget. We spend more on roads in a week. Why can't we set aside a small amount to help diversify our economy?

Here is the other thing: if we adjust these credits to, say, 30% or 35%, the loss to the state would be significantly less. Add a couple other modifications like -- must hire a certain percentage of Mich. crew to qualify, no rebates on lead actor and Above-the-Line pay, etc. we can bring the net cost to the state to zero.

[littlebuddy]

Michigan should be a place to film because of great locations, great local actors and workers behind the cameras. But if the only way to do it is give money away to lure them here, you pay for it then if you are so hot about it.

[Gsgeorge]

Latest from the Detroit News. If this doesn't illustrate to you how these films impact Michiganders, I don't know what will.

Gov's proposed cap has 43 films fighting for incentives

Melissa Burden and Adam Graham / The Detroit News

Forty-three projects seeking Michigan film industry tax credits this year face stiff competition.
Producers of the projects, which include movies, television shows, video games and music videos, are seeking a combined $129.3 million in incentives — seven times the $17.9 million the Michigan Film Office says it has left to award.
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The production teams would spend $324 million in the state, and hire 14,562 people, including film extras, according to applications filed with the film office and obtained by The Detroit News under the Freedom of Information Act.
The projects include movies featuring such A-listers as Tyler Perry, Johnny Depp and Mary J. Blige, and the television series "Detroit 1-8-7" and "Hung - Season 3."
Gov. Rick Snyder has proposed setting an annual $25 million cap on the tax credits, which are not limited now. The Legislature still must approve Snyder's plan but the film office is operating under the $25 million target.
Since April 2008, when the film incentives debuted, Michigan has approved $368.2 million on $938.6 million in qualified spending.
Michigan Film Office director Carrie Jones and a three-person Michigan Economic Development Corp. committee will choose the winners and losers among the 43 applications based on criteria that emphasize the economic impact on the state.
The uncertainty surrounding the film incentive program in Michigan, combined with the deterrent effect of the proposed $25 million cap, led a number of producers to move projects to other states, said Kevin Klowden, a managing economist for the California-based Milken Institute, who has studied films' economic impact on states.
"There's no question a lot of spending will go elsewhere," he said.
"The question is, how much can Michigan accomplish at $25 million? Is that enough to create and maintain that permanent job pool?"
Michigan has approved $7.1 million in incentives for four projects this year, including $1.8 million for "Spy Kids 4" post-production work and $5.26 million for the movie "Five Year Engagement." Jones expects to announce approval of another project next week.
Nine projects — including a movie to be directed by Doug Liman, known for his work on "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" and other films, and Marvel Studios' "The Avengers" — are no longer being considered for credits, Jones said. Those projects had planned to invest a total of $155 million and hire 4,730 people.
Waiting in limbo

The largest of the 43 remaining applicants, based on projected spending, is "Detroit 1-8-7," which would spend $54 million, hire 190 Michiganians and seeks $22.4 million in incentives. It's not clear whether the cop drama set in Detroit will be picked up for a second season by ABC.
Among other applicants, the movie "I, Alex Cross," starring Tyler Perry, seeks $14.3 million, with plans to spend $34.6 million and create 2,286 jobs.
Chris Roberts, a principal in Bl!nk Media International Ltd., wants to make a video game that would take years to build and require full-time workers. But Michigan could lose out to Quebec if Bl!nk's application for $12.3 million in tax credits isn't approved soon, Roberts said. Bl!nk plans to hire 112 residents and spend $31.1 million here. "There'd be multiple games," Roberts said. "We'd be creating long-term employment in Michigan."
Other producers are weighing options and said they will take projects to other states if they aren't approved in Michigan.
"We are still waiting and in limbo," said Mark Johnson, a producer on "Suicide Kings 2," a movie set to star Christopher Walken and Denis Leary that has asked for $1.6 million in incentives, in an e-mail. "We are looking into three other options in the event Michigan does not come through."
Director Charles Matthau said he needs to know in the next several days whether his project "Freaky Deaky," based on Metro Detroit author Elmore Leonard's 1988 novel, gets approved, or he'll be forced to take the movie set in 1974 Detroit elsewhere.
"The story can work pretty much anywhere in North America, but it's just so quintessentially Detroit that it will take the heart out of it [[to shoot elsewhere)," said Matthau, son of the late Hollywood legend Walter Matthau.
Filming is set to begin in late May with a cast that includes William H. Macy and Camilla Belle. He's hoping Michigan's tax credit will cover a third of his estimated $10 million budget.
Meeting state criteria

Northville resident Robert C. Wilson, author of the best-selling novel "Crooked Tree," wants to make his suspense thriller set in northern Michigan into a $17 million motion picture. Director Chris Eyre and actor Johnny Depp are interested, he said.
Wilson said his project and Lake Effect Cinema, which will set up shop at Raleigh Michigan Studios in Pontiac, meet the new criteria the state is considering when reviewing applications.
The state is putting more weight on a project's benefit to Michigan economically, such as ensuring the financial viability of a production company and using existing studios, and showing Michigan in a positive light.
"Every single one of those criteria fits like a glove," Wilson said. "The profits will come back to a Michigan company and be taxed to a Michigan company."
"Crooked Tree" scenes would be shot along the Au Sable River, at Sleeping Bear Dunes, on the Mackinac Bridge and in Petoskey and Charlevoix, he said.
"In terms of showing off the state, it is a veritable Pure Michigan ad campaign," Wilson said.
Michigan's application review committee will meet again next week to go through applications, Jones said. The committee is evaluating every project, no matter the size of the request.
"We just continue to work through our pipeline," Jones said, "and try to match up good projects with the resources we have."
mburden@detnews.com

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110402/BIZ/104020369/Gov’s-proposed-cap-has-43-films-fighting-for-incentives#ixzz1IN0fZqmZ

[Gsgeorge]

Here is a great graphic from the DetNews showing the number of hires for each film waiting for approval from the MFO.

[Dan]

I support the film incentives...and the historic & brownfield tax credits.

In the next few years development in Michigan's core communities is going to screech to a halt.

Synder is being far too hasty.

[canuck]

But what you're missing is that they didn't come to stay. They came, they took, they ran. If they were using the credits to establish a long term presence, it might be different. If they had shown a vested interest by building studios and sets the likes of what you see in LA, NY or Vancouver, people might feel differently. Let the credits go to movie and TV companies who build and staff their headquarters in the state, not to the transient road companies. Require that they hire and train a significant percentage of locals into long term positions. It wouldn't matter if those positions were on-camera or off in some management, production, support or technical capacity.

The nature of film production is that each new production is a new limited company. But you know a number of people do stay on in accounting and administrative tasks and sometimes for the purpose of reshooting a long time after the principal photography is done. I just started working on the rebuild of sets that were scrapped after a shoot of a big movie here last year. I am working in an old rolling stock factory that is being transformed into major studios. As the business grows, there are more permanently staffed businesses like payroll services and set construction companies, lighting, gripping and camera equipent rental companies competing for the dollar. You cant expect Hollywood to double their staff in their satellite production cities, but you can expect producers to eventually choose Detroit and generate local projects. If you kill the credits to this industry, it snuffs out the possibility of such a thing occuring. The locally produced film industry in Montreal generates more than the Hollywood films but they both benefit from experienced crews, and infrastructure. If you work on a big movie in construction, you can expect to work for 5, 6 months non-stop 10 hours a day. Since the bulk of labor is unionized, the social benefits to these workers meshes with the local insurance, health, legal service providers that enrich the local economy.
The bigger the industry gets; the less it is dependant on Chicago, L.A. or New York staffing and services in key areas. In time, Detroit producers could initiate projects in co-production with other countries, and bypass Hollywood. I think Detroit could benefit from thinking itself as a republic; the way the old cities of Europe were. I think Detroit needs to become more of a media center in order to give local expression an outlet to the rest of the world. If even a small number of independant films made in Detroit start garnering attention in the festival circuit because the critical mass of specialists was given a chance to mature; it will be well worth it for Detroit. And this starts with helping productions of films or tv series that may leave you cold. There are more Pintos than Mustangs in this business. And the film credits help to alleviate the inherent uncertainty of commercial success...

[Corktown Mark]

The film tax credit should really be supported by Republicans and Democrats who want to see development and zazz be part of the Michigan culture

[preserve]

Now that the fun of watching the movies being made and spotting actors around the area is over, we can all sit and watch the corn grow as the Urban farmers take over.

[rjk]

We should probably have a limit on spending, yes. Probably in the $100-$200M range...

If there's such a great return on the investment why put a cap on it?

I'm starting to think that the other 44 states that have movie incentives haven't matched Michigan's 42% because they figured that we'd being coming back to the back. If all that glitters is gold the other states would set up incentives that are competitive with Michigan. Handing out as much money as we've handed out just isn't sustainable over the long haul. We certainly can't pull back on the incentives and play gotcha with the movie industry. They'll flee like gypsies if they can find a better deal

[illwill]

I agree canuck,

Detroiters need to stop relying on an industry that is based in California to hold their hands or share the crumbs. Detroit is competing with dozens of other states for these pictures. Perhabs Detroit needs to create it's own Hollywood and stop waiting around for a hollywood handout.

Certain other cities such as Chicago will refuse to sell out and as a result, they've lost TV shows to Connecticut and NYC. I'm sure several movies have by-passed them as well. This has not stopped Hollywood from coming to Chicago to shoot films. If they want to be in our state then that's great and we should welcome them with open arms. But we shouldn't have to give them free economic reign. This is Detroit, not Hollywood.

[Det_ard]

Let's take the money we save by canceling this corporate welfare to the film industry and teach financial analysis in HS. We'd have fewer people thinking this giveaway was a net financial positive for anyone other than those putting our money in their pockets.

[JBMcB]

You also need to look at opportunity cost. Is this the best drain of state money? The film industry isn't going to stay here, beyond the hard core indie locals. Once another state offers better incentives, we'll loose business to them. Then we'll have to undercut that state - it's a race to the bottom.

OK - Sophie's choice - would you rather have a hundred million drain on the economy to fund the film industry, or dump that money into some downtown light rail development?

[mpf]

Latest from the Detroit News. If this doesn't illustrate to you how these films impact Michiganders, I don't know what will.

I would say what impact Michiganders the most are the other state's governors, each one is out there offering all kinds of treats...I think Alabama gave the koreans land for their 'factory' for $1 dollar, even knowing that they had a 400% tariff on OUR product [[kia / hyndai).
It seems as if the hollywood bosses are just using anyone they can for max. profit.
This being said, I do hope the state can retain and grow this industry in detroit, as it is clearly needed...

[maxx]

Word is that the Guv. wants to encourage wine-making here. Why should the unemployed and under-employed get hammered on CA wines?