Will you commute via 'personal rapid transit?'

[Vox]

You are living in fantasyland.

First, you say that PRT will pay for itself. This is preposterous. You have a system that has low volume and will need extremely sophisticated infrastructure. There is no way, theoretically, that you can have such a system that will pay for itself.

Second, no genuine PRT system has been built anywhere ever. So you have no proof to back up your argument there.

Third, every time they try building a PRT system, they go to local governments to ask for money. So that's just proof of more fantasizing on your part.

Finally, ALL TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS COST MONEY. It's just that systems such as light rail are the very systems that Detroit grew up around. So when we talk about light rail, it is a serious investment with proven gains that works in other cities. That is why light rail is credible, and why such untried, never-implemented systems as PRT are a joke.

Where this form of transport would differ is that it would not run on a set schedule. So instead of this being run without anybody riding it, as in busses and light rail schemes, this would only run as needed, saving energy and money. Light rail is a joke in terms of cost effectiveness, and the drain on the population's tax resources will make DOT and SMART look like a walk in the park.

[ghettopalmetto]

Sure they do? I can't wait until the People Mover becomes a huge monument to that. This year.

The People Mover isn't a monorail nor a maglev. But since you're a transit expert, you already knew that.

Please explain how your PRT wet dream is any different than a system of independently-operated combustion-engine vehicles on fixed guideways with flexible scheduling. As far as I can tell, it's just a second system of automobiles [[albeit, "car sharing" automobiles) with a horrifically expensive and geographically limited overhead infrastructure.

[Vox]

Thank you for proving to the transit experts on this board that you have no freakin' idea what you're talking about. Keep on fantasizing. At least now the next time somebody pipes up about PRT in a serious transit meeting, people will know that it's the province of whack-jobs like you.

Let's see. You stated that no such system exists...



And I don't know what I am talking about?

[Vox]

The People Mover isn't a monorail nor a maglev. But since you're a transit expert, you already knew that.

Please explain how your PRT wet dream is any different than a system of independently-operated combustion-engine vehicles on fixed guideways with flexible scheduling. As far as I can tell, it's just a second system of automobiles [[albeit, "car sharing" automobiles) with a horrifically expensive and geographically limited overhead infrastructure.

No petroleum products..

[Russix]

Vox,
I love your ability to champion against proven transit systems with theoretically systems that nobody in the last 50 years has even considered let alone tried to implement. I’d say you’re rather “special”.

[ghettopalmetto]

No petroleum products..

So why invest in a whole second [[and unproven) infrastructure? Why not just make cars that are fueled by means other than petroleum?

And how does you PRT system accommodate, say, people departing from a hockey game or a concert? Where do you store all the vehicles?

Since you know that PRT will pay for itself, what are the operating costs per passenger mile?

[Detroitnerd]

Let's see. You stated that no such system exists...

And I don't know what I am talking about?

Haha. You're touting an airport monorail as the mass transit system for Detroit? Bwahahahahaha.

No, the reason you do not know what you are talking about is because you seriously utter such sentences as this:

Where this form of transport would differ is that it would not run on a set schedule. So instead of this being run without anybody riding it, as in busses and light rail schemes, this would only run as needed, saving energy and money. Light rail is a joke in terms of cost effectiveness, and the drain on the population's tax resources will make DOT and SMART look like a walk in the park.

No transportation planner could look at this sentence without erupting in laughter.

[Vox]

Haha. You're touting an airport monorail as the mass transit system for Detroit? Bwahahahahaha.

No, the reason you do not know what you are talking about is because you seriously utter such sentences as this:

No transportation planner woud intimate that the Detroit light rail system would make a profit, either.

No transportation planner could look at this sentence without erupting in laughter.

No transportation planner woud intimate that the Detroit light rail system would make a profit, either.

[Vox]

So why invest in a whole second [[and unproven) infrastructure? Why not just make cars that are fueled by means other than petroleum?

And how does you PRT system accommodate, say, people departing from a hockey game or a concert? Where do you store all the vehicles?

Since you know that PRT will pay for itself, what are the operating costs per passenger mile?

Why does it matter? It's impossible, remember?

[ghettopalmetto]

No transportation planner woud intimate that the Detroit light rail system would make a profit, either.

And they haven't.

May I suggest that you pick up one of three books on transit written by Dr. Vukan Vuchic, professor of systems engineering at the University of Pennsylvania? You might learn a thing or two.

[Vox]

Vox,
I love your ability to champion against proven transit systems with theoretically systems that nobody in the last 50 years has even considered let alone tried to implement. I’d say you’re rather “special”.

Yes, I am. But at least I'm not claiming to be a transit "expert" as some are here. Or better yet, at least I'm not claiming to be one. Let's be real here. I like the concept, and that alone. But some trainman wannabees aren't making their case here, that the light rail proposed will be unprofitable.

[Vox]

And they haven't.

May I suggest that you pick up one of three books on transit written by Dr. Vukan Vuchic, professor of systems engineering at the University of Pennsylvania? You might learn a thing or two.

About what? That they are too expensive to operate profitably?

[ghettopalmetto]

About what? That they are too expensive to operate profitably?

What's the operating cost per passenger mile of Personal Rapid Transit?

You already know that it would pay for itself, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pull the numbers out of your asshole, I mean, research.

[Detroitnerd]

Why does it matter? It's impossible, remember?

Nice try, Vox. You're now just trying to stuff words in my mouth. I never said it was impossible, I just said it was illogical and preposterous to try to implement PRT as a mass transit system. An airport trolley is not a mass transit system.

PRT proponents say they can build a PRT system that would serve a city. These little systems for airports are their stab at saying that they're practical for use across a city. NO ACTUAL PRT SYSTEM HAS BEEN BUILT AND IMPLEMENTED IN AN AMERICAN CITY. The reasons are plainly explained above, if you want to read.

[Vox]

What's the operating cost per passenger mile of Personal Rapid Transit?

You already know that it would pay for itself, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pull the numbers out of your asshole, I mean, research.

What's wrong with that? Isn't that where all your posts come from?

Fine. Here.



Also, Operating costs.

[Vox]

Nice try, Vox. You're now just trying to stuff words in my mouth. I never said it was impossible, I just said it was illogical and preposterous to try to implement PRT as a mass transit system. An airport trolley is not a mass transit system.

PRT proponents say they can build a PRT system that would serve a city. These little systems for airports are their stab at saying that they're practical for use across a city. NO ACTUAL PRT SYSTEM HAS BEEN BUILT AND IMPLEMENTED IN AN AMERICAN CITY. The reasons are plainly explained above, if you want to read.

And a profitable light rail system hasn't been built anywhere. Your point? Light rail is inefficient on many levels, resource and operating wise. I like something that will only be operated when needed.

[Detroitnerd]

And a profitable light rail system hasn't been built anywhere. Your point?

What's your point? Again, NO TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM EVER TURNS A PROFIT. THERE IS ALWAYS SOME SUBSIDY BEHIND ANY TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM. It's just that some modes [[LRV, streetcars, cable cars, heavy rail) have a proven track record of actually WORKING, and the boondoggle you propose is completely impractical. Stop putting arguments in other people's mouths.

Light rail is inefficient on many levels, resource and operating wise.

Let's see your numbers then. What? Don't have any? Well, that hasn't stopped you yet.

I like something that will only be operated when needed.

So, if you need 15,000 individual 6-person pods to service 90,000 people getting out of downtown at the end of the workday, it won't be inefficient to store 14,000 individual pods in a covered, secure area for, like, 90 percent of the day?

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Go read a book or something.

[ghettopalmetto]

What's wrong with that? Isn't that where all your posts come from?

Fine. Here.



Also, Operating costs.

There are no assumptions, nor methdologies stated, nor sources or studies cited for deriving these numbers. In other words, it's bullshit junk science and would never EVER find its way into a peer-reviewed publication. For all I know, the creator of these charts just made it up.

And really? 22 automated guideway systems in the United States??? No doubt, most of those are intra-airport transit, which, as we all know, directly correlates to the behavior of an entire metropolis.

[Detroitnerd]

What's wrong with that? Isn't that where all your posts come from?

Fine. Here.



Also, Operating costs.

Ooooh! Colorful graphs! It MUST be true!

[Vox]

What's your point? Again, NO TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM EVER TURNS A PROFIT. THERE IS ALWAYS SOME SUBSIDY BEHIND ANY TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM. It's just that some modes [[LRV, streetcars, cable cars, heavy rail) have a proven track record of actually WORKING, and the boondoggle you propose is completely impractical. Stop putting arguments in other people's mouths.

Yelling doesn't solve anything. Just because your favorite mode of transportation is being dissed doesn't give you the right to yell. I bet that these train guys have you on their payroll. Has to be a nice gig if you can get it.

Let's see your numbers then. What? Don't have any? Well, that hasn't stopped you yet.

See above.

So, if you need 15,000 individual 6-person pods to service 90,000 people getting out of downtown at the end of the workday, it won't be inefficient to store 14,000 individual pods in a covered, secure area for, like, 90 percent of the day?

On what planet would that number be rational? These would be circulating through the system anyway. And really, I see this as more of a supplemental system anyway. People would still drive cars for the most part.

Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Go read a book or something.

You are so witty. Maybe that and a dollar can buy yourself a cup of pop at McDonalds.

[Vox]

Yes, at least I can produce some sort of meaningful figures, unlike yourself. You still haven't told me who is paying this subsidy for the train to nowhere. Can you?

[Detroitnerd]

Yelling doesn't solve anything. Just because your favorite mode of transportation is being dissed doesn't give you the right to yell. I bet that these train guys have you on their payroll. Has to be a nice gig if you can get it.

It is emphasis, not yelling. I want to write things in big, bold letters to show you what is important. Sadly, it is not aiding your reading comprehension skills.

See above.

That's not peer-reviewed information. As such, it is useless. You might have made that yourself.

On what planet would that number be rational? These would be circulating through the system anyway. And really, I see this as more of a supplemental system anyway. People would still drive cars for the most part.

So you want a mass transit system that does not take cars off the road? That is a secondary system that operates the same way cars do? On its face that's ridiculous.

You are so witty. Maybe that and a dollar can buy yourself a cup of pop at McDonalds.

It is sober advice, Vox. Reading, research and critical thinking skills are important. They help people decide between boons and boondoggles.

[ghettopalmetto]

Yes, at least I can produce some sort of meaningful figures, unlike yourself. You still haven't told me who is paying this subsidy for the train to nowhere. Can you?

Your figures are meaningless. The work used to produce them is not replicable. It's junk science. No citations, no studies, no experimental data, no analysis--it's forged. Hardly the work of a credible academic.

I don't know what this proposed "train to nowhere" is about. Unless, of course, you're talking about the proposed light rail line that would go from downtown Detroit to EIGHT MILE ROAD [[a distance of ~10 lineal miles). It hasn't been determined how the operating costs would be funded.

Let me at least buy your a belt. I think your pants are a little too big for you.

[Hermod]

Attachment 9210

So? A light rail system that pays for itself hasn't been built either. Tell me when that happens too.

Many were built that paid for themselves until the cost of labor sky-rocketed after World War One.

This line made money back in the day in Detroit:

[Vox]

Your figures are meaningless. The work used to produce them is not replicable. It's junk science. No citations, no studies, no experimental data, no analysis--it's forged. Hardly the work of a credible academic.

I don't know what this proposed "train to nowhere" is about. Unless, of course, you're talking about the proposed light rail line that would go from downtown Detroit to EIGHT MILE ROAD [[a distance of ~10 lineal miles). It hasn't been determined how the operating costs would be funded.

Let me at least buy your a belt. I think your pants are a little too big for you.

My figures may be meaningless, but at least they are something. Unlike what you provide.

And the cost figures cited in any publication is only for the loop to the Boulevard. Where's the money coming from for that? Snyder? The Legislature? The Federal Government? You are too funny.