Librarians laid off, libraries to close all over Detroit

[Ray1936]

Damn, I wonder how many librarians could have been retained for the cost of the 65 million dollars in Tomahawk missles we shot off in Lybia to blow sand to smithereens?????

[Eric_c]

Meanwhile, while you guys are arguing over horseshit, the vacant buildings will still be scrapped out, adding one more nail in the coffin when it comes to quality of life.

Oh, well...more ruin porn.

[ferntruth]

Damn, I wonder how many librarians could have been retained for the cost of the 65 million dollars in Tomahawk missles we shot off in Lybia to blow sand to smithereens?????

I say the sand had it coming, the way it just lays there all the time in the sun.
I say "GET A JOB!"

[Zimm]

Too late. Our nation is already ignorant as hell. All people care about any more is playing video games, laughing at comedies, drinking, getting laid and useless gossip.

you had me until the getting laid part...

[Magnatomicflux]

>>>Internet sources are, and always will be, largely unreliable.<<<

Not sure what your "sources" are.......

http://www.stateuniversity.com/blog/...-Research.html



Source?

[Hermod]

PS I'm liberal, and love libraries.

I am a conservative and I love libraries [[and librarians).

I do not care for "media centers" and "media specialists".

Libraries should be vast storehouses of books to be treasured and read for research.

Libraries today have the philosophy that if a book doesn't get checked out "x" amount of times in a certain period, it isn't needed and goes to the used book sale.

Every single library in the US was gifted wit free copies of the multi-volume sets of Army, Air Force, navy, and Marine histories of WWII. You know where to find those volumes now? You find them in second hand book stores. The "media specialists" have discarded them in favor of the latest best selling novels. The complete sets should be in the non-fiction section of every public library.

I used to be a regular visitor to the libraries near my home. At least one day a week, I would spend a few hours in there. I rarely go now because there is so little of interest.

That is why i have such a large home library. If I thought the librarian would catalog and keep my books in perpetuity, I would donate most of them in a flash to share them with others. If I do donate books, the librarian never catalogs and shelves them, just sticks them in the corner for the semi-annual dollar book sale and gives me a receipt for "x" boxes of books for the IRS.

[Goose]

this reminds me of an old Chris Rock routine.......

[lilpup]

Yooper, one thing you fail to realize is that the library-based resources on the internet [[such as the Library of Congress) are made possible by librarians and their archivist cousins. The librarian help you think you aren't using is what makes it easy for you to find stuff by yourself when accessing a library or archival collection.

[Lowell]

Librarians will eventually be obsolete.
All resources will be scanned and digitized. There will be no need for libraries as we know them.
....I feel sad saying this, but it's just reality.

I share that sadness. My little library of 2 or 3 thousand books in my childhood village were essential in my coming to know the world. But today I, and the kids in that same small town, carry a resource in our pockets greater than the Library on Congress.

The concept of librarian-ism is alive and well in this mobile wireless internet age but, like so many things, it needs to be re-invented and adapted to this reality. Beyond the archiving of historical print and other physical objects, their role as gateways to knowledge is in question and certainly does not require them sitting behind a check out desk.

A library is no longer something we go it. It is something that comes to us.

I say this with more than a twinge of pain when I think of the many beautiful palaces of learning that were created and whose future is in question. The incredible McGregor Library by my house in Highland Park was a first class example of what can happen. Those space likewise need to be re-invented -- challenging thoughts for challenging times.

[Neilr]

I am a conservative and I love libraries [[and librarians).

I do not care for "media centers" and "media specialists".

Libraries should be vast storehouses of books to be treasured and read for research.

Libraries today have the philosophy that if a book doesn't get checked out "x" amount of times in a certain period, it isn't needed and goes to the used book sale.

Every single library in the US was gifted wit free copies of the multi-volume sets of Army, Air Force, navy, and Marine histories of WWII. You know where to find those volumes now? You find them in second hand book stores. The "media specialists" have discarded them in favor of the latest best selling novels. The complete sets should be in the non-fiction section of every public library.

I used to be a regular visitor to the libraries near my home. At least one day a week, I would spend a few hours in there. I rarely go now because there is so little of interest.

That is why i have such a large home library. If I thought the librarian would catalog and keep my books in perpetuity, I would donate most of them in a flash to share them with others. If I do donate books, the librarian never catalogs and shelves them, just sticks them in the corner for the semi-annual dollar book sale and gives me a receipt for "x" boxes of books for the IRS.

Modern day libraries, media centers, if you prefer that term, can be wonderful places to visit. Most will have a wide array of current titles, DVDs, magazines, and so on. However, they have no room to store post-current items. There is some breadth, but absolutely no depth, to their collections.

To find depth in a collection you need to visit the main branch of the Detroit Public Library.

Several years ago while reading a then current book, I came across a reference to the Dakota Apartment building in NYC [[one of my favorites). It mentioned the floor plan of the first floor on the building. [[The 7th floor is the commonly pictured plan.) In the footnotes, the author cited an 1884 issue of The Sanitary Engineer, a plumbing trade journal of the time, as the source.

On my next visit to the main library, I went to the Science & Technology Department and filled out a call slip for the 1884 issues of The Sanitary Engineer. 15 or so minutes later, the page returned toting several dusty, yellowed volumes. And I was then able to xerox the plans of the 1st floor of the Dakota.

So Hermod let me invite you to come down to the Main Branch of the DPL. However, I need to caution you: don't park at a meter, pay to park in a parking structure. Because once you start digging into the collection, there's no way you'll want to leave in just 1 hour.

[professorscott]

The Internet is a treasure trove of recent information, much of it biased and a good bit of it incorrect. Worse, there is no simple way to separate the real from the hogwash. The Internet is the world in which publishers are untroubled by pesky editors. Statistics about this are not likely to be meaningful [[as Scott Adams memorably put into Dilbert's mouth, 87% of statistics are made up).

What the internet hasn't got is a wealth of information which is not recent. I would suppose, for instance, that 90% or more of the information in the collections at the main branch of DPL, or in John King's Corktown bookstore, is not to be found anywhere at all on the internet.

We need all of the sources of good information: libraries, bookstores, newspapers, the Internet. Losing any significant source of information is tragic.

[Novine]

I don't know where Yooper is getting free access to research databases but in my experience, the only way you can get free access to them is through libraries. No libraries, no free access.

[Vox]

I don\\\'t know where Yooper is getting free access to research databases but in my experience, the only way you can get free access to them is through libraries. No libraries, no free access.

That is exactly right. MEL databases are accessed through the MEL website, funded by the Michigan Library, who funds that from the state. Perhaps the funding from MEL databases will go bye bye later on in the budget process? I think that MEL databases are kind of weak firewalled anyway, the fact that one can practically make up a Michigan 12 digit drivers license and access the site cant do much for the costs associated with their subscriptions.

[English]

The Internet is a treasure trove of recent information, much of it biased and a good bit of it incorrect. Worse, there is no simple way to separate the real from the hogwash. The Internet is the world in which publishers are untroubled by pesky editors. Statistics about this are not likely to be meaningful [[as Scott Adams memorably put into Dilbert's mouth, 87% of statistics are made up).

What the internet hasn't got is a wealth of information which is not recent. I would suppose, for instance, that 90% or more of the information in the collections at the main branch of DPL, or in John King's Corktown bookstore, is not to be found anywhere at all on the internet.

We need all of the sources of good information: libraries, bookstores, newspapers, the Internet. Losing any significant source of information is tragic.

I have been searching for weeks for short stories from the 1920s through the 1950s in a particular genre. You are absolutely correct. My fear is that with the defunding of libraries and the disappearance of independent booksellers, some of this material will simply disappear.

[Vox]

I have been searching for weeks for short stories from the 1920s through the 1950s in a particular genre. You are absolutely correct. My fear is that with the defunding of libraries and the disappearance of independent booksellers, some of this material will simply disappear.

May I ask, what genre?

[Guideboat]

I would like to put in a good word for libraries and fiction. A library is a source for free, FREE, books on loan. I can go weekly and get twenty books for my kids. This would be economically impossible if I had to buy each of those books online [[with a high-priced piece of hardware if I want portability), or even worse if I bought a printed version. I guess I am becoming a dinosaur, but snuggling up with the kids and flipping pages fills me with joy. Browsing through the stacks in a physical library always yields unexpected treasures .

[Vox]

Guideboat, thing is that people expect things to be free, when in fact there is a cost associated with all public libraries. It has been too easy to take the public library system in this country for granted. And, it is all to easy for some to diminish the need for libraries in society, simply because they feel that they, by virtue of the fact that they may have a few dollars to rub together, do not need to visit libraries. Or those that feel that their font of knowledge exists on a cathode ray tube or a LCD that they pay for.

[Hermod]

The Internet is a treasure trove of recent information, much of it biased and a good bit of it incorrect. Worse, there is no simple way to separate the real from the hogwash. The Internet is the world in which publishers are untroubled by pesky editors. Statistics about this are not likely to be meaningful [[as Scott Adams memorably put into Dilbert's mouth, 87% of statistics are made up).

The "Infinite Monkey Theorem" states that "if an infinite number of monkeys punched keys on typewriters for an infinite amount of time, they would produce all of the great works of literature."

Thanks to the modern internet we have conclusively proven that the theorem is not true.

[stasu1213]

I had remembered Mark Twain Library closing 11 years ago with the promise of reopening after renovations. A big sign was placed in the door in 2002 saying "Your Tax Dollars Are AT Work". The library never opened. Many children were utilizing that library before and up to the time it had closed. The economy was much better than it is now. What happened? Charles Pugh had claimed on WCHB that there is a library in every neighborhood. He had lied. The talk show host was too ignorant to know the neighborhoods of the city to ask the whereabouts of these libraries. I had taken it as a part of steering residents out of certain neighborhoods and out of Detroit. Take away the schools and libraries and the single parent family will leave. Chandler Elementary School, which is not too far from Mark Twain Library, had closed it's doors around 2003. There were many children in the neighborhood that had attended that school up to the time of the closing. The economy was much better. What was the excuse then. Children had to walk a long distance to get to the nearest elementary school. I don't want to hear crap such as "children had to walk for miles in the south". There weren't busy avenues such as Gratiot or Harper to walk across while going to school in the south years ago. Nor was there many vacant homes to walk past. I think the economy has something to do with the closing of some institution but some of the closings are probably due to steering renters out of the community and possibly out of the city.

[mwilbert]

I have been searching for weeks for short stories from the 1920s through the 1950s in a particular genre. You are absolutely correct. My fear is that with the defunding of libraries and the disappearance of independent booksellers, some of this material will simply disappear.

Even with well-funded libraries, it is clear that there is no appetite to keep older titles that are not in demand, outside some research libraries and the Library of Congress. I have found Google Books to be very useful in trying to find more obscure stuff and I'm hoping that the whole orphan works problem can be resolved so that this can be made even more useful.

I'm an online kind of guy, but I still think libraries are important as a place where people can go with minimal distractions and the intent of reading or studying. Getting rid of libraries is basically devaluing those activities, which I think is wrong.

I don't know where Yooper is getting free access to research databases but in my experience, the only way you can get free access to them is through libraries. No libraries, no free access.

And Novine has an excellent point here. Libraries aren't the only way, but otherwise you need some kind of affiliation that most people don't have.

[iheartthed]

>>>Internet sources are, and always will be, largely unreliable.<<<

Not sure what your "sources" are, but let's say you were doing research on the latest high efficiency power conversion technology...green energy stuff, latest topologies and technologies.

I wouldn't even consider going to a library, except for silence.

The information shared by scholars online is staggering.
Find one of interest?
Hit the print button.

Are you serious? You can't even access most of the peer reviewed periodicals or research papers on the internet without an expensive account with a research database. And if you aren't using a peer reviewed source then you might as will take a shit on the paper and hand it to the professor because that's about what the credibility of your source is worth.

Otherwise, to get access you have to go to a library and either search the library's archives, or use their license to search the electronic databases. Since most library systems tend to have licenses for research databases that it likely wouldn't make economic sense for you to own yourself.

[Hermod]

The problem that has developed at all levels of government is this: PEOPLE are too expensive!

We developed these systems of education, libraries, public symphonies, and public offices when the employees would work for peanuts. Teachers [[and librarians) used to be able to afford to live only if they were married and earned a supplemental income to help support the family, lived at home, or lived in rooming houses, boarding houses, or had multiple room mates.

You have the same phenomena in the armed services. Sailors no longer make $78 a mionth and live on the ship. Soldiers no longer make $78 a month and live in the barracks.

I am not saying that we should go back to that, but that is a big reason that public payrolls and budgets have ballooned [[well also Parkinson's Law which has caused the bureaucracies overseeing the frontline workers to increase exponentially).

Ray was talking about the cost of the missiles fired into Libya. That cost pales when compared with the cost of military pay, benefits, and all of the personnel support facilities on our military posts.

This has caused the taxpayer [[squeezed economically) to call into question the need to fund some of these socially desirable public efforts.

[Detroitnerd]

Well, clearly some people are too expensive. How about we start, though, with those incompetents who stole several trillion dollars over that last few years?

[j to the jeremy]

We're fighting 3 wars, and all over our country, libraries are closing...empires fall eventually.

[Lowell]

The role of libraries in the maturing internet age, as I see it, is primarily to provide access to the internet for those who may not have the means to own computers and pay for internet service and to provide access to subscribed services, like Lexus, that most of us only need occasionally. When I visit my local libraries, the internet computers are the busiest part of the library. Magazines, papers and other high turnover items are popular too. Then there is the quiet space feature.

Another role is a museum role, the preservation, cataloging and archiving of significant, mainly print, objects. Much of that can be and is now being digitized but preservation of the source objects is still an important role. However it does not take that many people to accomplish.

Aspects of libraries that have energized them in recent decades are likewise being eroded by the internet, the lending of film dvd's and audio books.

I'm not arguing against libraries, indeed I support them in any form; I am just pointing out their need to actively redefine and learn their new roles. The organization of cultural events and providing space for community organizations may help, but the library as we knew it is a thing of the past.

I see a significant role for them in economically disadvantaged areas. The poorer an area is, the more the need for libraries exists. Unfortunately those areas are the most under-served.