Eleventh Hour Reprieve for Cass Tech?

[ghettopalmetto]

When we make everything in Detroit into "lofts and condos," where the hell are the masses of Detroiters supposed to go?

I support CT's redevelopment, but I'm so tired of high-end this and luxury that before we have the population to support it. What can the surrounding neighborhood actually use now?

Design and construction [[capital) costs for any redevelopment need to be recouped by the property owner. You can't do that by renting out $200/mo flophouses. The numbers just don't add up. Hence, the reason for all the "high-end this and luxury that". Once the capital costs are paid off, the building will be a bit older and depreciated, and rents can be allowed to fall lower with respect to the market at that time. Jane Jacobs touched on this issue in 1961, in the chapter of her book entitled "The Need for Old Buildings". Alas, Detroit keeps BULLDOZING THE SHIT out of its old buildings.

Poor people aren't in any danger of being geographically forced out of Detroit. At the same time, the City could use a few more taxpaying citizens who won't further strain schools and social services.

[rjlj]

So many comments in this article can be applied to the Cass Tech situation.

"strangled opportunity"
"Another way of putting it is this: Unlike New Orleans and Japan, the ruin we see in Detroit is entirely man-made."

Or self-made for that matter. How is Detroit going to prove the world wrong? The old ways of demolishing assets continues not to work.

Here is commentary from today's WSJ.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...=ITP_opinion_0

[GUSHI]

DPS should sell the building and use the money that DPS was gonna use to knockdown Cass Tech towards knocking down other properites.

[Eric_c]

What can the surrounding neighborhood use now? Last I checked, we had all the liquor stores, check cashing outlets, coney places and NSOs we need over here.

In all seriousness, I appreciate what you're saying, English, but the fact remains that while providing for the underclass and serving the needs of the middle and upper classes should not be mutually exclusive, they very often are. The reason Detroit has failed so badly is that it's not viewed as a place wherein it's profitable to do business. Think about how much more money will be available to not only support indigent programs but also employ them when businesses are allowed to prosper.

Detroit has more than enough poor people than it needs. It also has more than enough space to house them! The concept of gentrification in Detroit is so far from reality that it's not even worth discussing. As a matter of fact, it's something to *hope* for!

Allow the free market to work here and the result will be lots of disposeable income, free time and employment opportunities with which to help the underclass with a hand up.

[Detroitnerd]

I am so sick of the ideologues at the Wall Street Journal. In one paragraph, it's the right-wing's fevered imagination, decrying the unions, big government and liberal politics. Oops, as if that paragraph had never happened, follows the real paragraph describing what REALLY happened. But they just can't resist another opportunity to churn out their tired ideological, Chicago School horseshit.

[English]

Design and construction [[capital) costs for any redevelopment need to be recouped by the property owner. You can't do that by renting out $200/mo flophouses. The numbers just don't add up. Hence, the reason for all the "high-end this and luxury that". Once the capital costs are paid off, the building will be a bit older and depreciated, and rents can be allowed to fall lower with respect to the market at that time. Jane Jacobs touched on this issue in 1961, in the chapter of her book entitled "The Need for Old Buildings". Alas, Detroit keeps BULLDOZING THE SHIT out of its old buildings.

Poor people aren't in any danger of being geographically forced out of Detroit. At the same time, the City could use a few more taxpaying citizens who won't further strain schools and social services.

OK, I will answer my own question, since I lived in this area, taught there, and work here now. The neighborhood could now use:

--A state-of-the-art Detroit music museum. Why no one has done this yet is beyond me. The CT site would be an ideal location. Renovate the auditorium and use it as a concert venue/lecture hall.
--Another, west of Woodward, Russell Industrial Center. My siblings are both small business owners, a tattoo artist and a caterer/event planner. What they wouldn't give for a venue on this side of town.
--A think tank for the study of urban revitalization. TechTown South, without the tech, and instead focused intensely on post-industrial Detroit. Harness the brainpower. Detroit is an ideal laboratory for how to change the way we think about cities. Provide office space and an incubator for those with innovative nonprofit ideas and projects.

This would generate tourism, jobs, visitors, etc. The historic appeal of a revitalized Cass Tech is immense. And unlike NYC, Chicago, DC, etc. we have plenty of buildings in the Cass Corridor, Brush Park, and Midtown that can be [[and ought to be) rehabbed for residential use -- "lofts and condos."

And yes, it is a shame that Detroit keeps BULLDOZING. I'm against bulldozing. How about you?

[Richard]

So many comments in this article can be applied to the Cass Tech situation.

"strangled opportunity"
"Another way of putting it is this: Unlike New Orleans and Japan, the ruin we see in Detroit is entirely man-made."

Or self-made for that matter. How is Detroit going to prove the world wrong? The old ways of demolishing assets continues not to work.

Here is commentary from today's WSJ.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...=ITP_opinion_0

I really wish that WSJ would get off of this Detroit kick every day it is the same,it is hard enough already to get funding for anything in MI let alone Detroit currently without this constant onslaught.

[English]

What can the surrounding neighborhood use now? Last I checked, we had all the liquor stores, check cashing outlets, coney places and NSOs we need over here.

In all seriousness, I appreciate what you're saying, English, but the fact remains that while providing for the underclass and serving the needs of the middle and upper classes should not be mutually exclusive, they very often are. The reason Detroit has failed so badly is that it's not viewed as a place wherein it's profitable to do business. Think about how much more money will be available to not only support indigent programs but also employ them when businesses are allowed to prosper.

I'm not against rich people moving into the city. I don't want my grandfather's school to become another "sentinel of development." CT was the people's school. It was public space in a way that other schools were not, including my own alma mater, Renaissance. As a student and as a teacher, throughout the district, we went to CASS TECH for certain things. There are ways to make the CT building work for the market, and to make it a place that is a destination for Detroit tourists.

A Detroit Music Museum, or a Cass Tech Industrial Center, or a Center for the Study of Urban Revitalization, would have opportunities for degreed professionals, creative types, service industries [[food, janitorial, etc.) and more. The auditorium space in all three cases would be ideal as a lecture hall or small concert venue. You have offices, incredibly high ceilings, amazing views, and an ideal location just blocks from the Woodward light rail line. All three ideas would have immediate possibilities for the students and staff at Cass Tech -- internships, partnerships, a ready-made field trip right next door. Very different than expensive condos with owners who might not be all that enthused hearing the marching band practice HBCU style in their backyards [[although granted, some may not mind).

The problem isn't that I'm a naysayer. The problem is that I believe that Lewis Cass Technical High School is an extraordinary school, and deserves an extraordinary rehab. The latter two projects wouldn't even be expensive. They'd easily draw upper middle class, high income people, and yet at each, there would be job opportunities created for EXISTING Detroiters. It's a win-win.

[Islandman]

GP,

Do you think this development has better or worse chance of succeeding including low income units or none?

Like it or not, most middle to upper income folks will not like living in this environment, whatever their reasons. No one is saying not to develop it. I, for one, welcome it. I would love to live in the building myself. Like English proposes, this would be a great addition to the area if they could turn it into a Russell type facility.

[iheartthed]

There are a whole host of things that make New York and Chicago work, but Detroit isn't even willing to consider the reasons. The #1 thing we can do to fix Detroit is to find a way to help the adults who already live in the city.

You can't fix Detroit neighborhoods if large numbers of the adult population is down and out. You can't fix the schools if the majority of parents and grandparents can't provide a stable home environment. You know, the way that poor people who can barely take care of themselves are blamed for the demise of an industrial behemoth is sickening. Yet the Greatest Generation figured out how to deal with unemployment -- we're too busy worshipping technology and multinational corporations.

No one, anywhere has a solution for how to reintegrate the Detroit poor back into society. Adult education? Parenting classes? Jobs programs? Not at a time when we're cutting away any notion of "the public good" -- public education, public schools, public libraries, public television. No, the attitude of Americans towards their poor [[never that wonderful) is now "F--- you." I guess if you want Detroit to gentrify, do what NYC and DC did -- find a way to displace the poor.

When we make everything in Detroit into "lofts and condos," where the hell are the masses of Detroiters supposed to go?

I support CT's redevelopment, but I'm so tired of high-end this and luxury that before we have the population to support it. What can the surrounding neighborhood actually use now?

I view Detroit's poor and the state of Detroit as two separate issues. Fixing Detroit does not mean we have to end poverty, which has been the absolute most elusive issue since the dawn of civilization.

[English]

Islandman: With the latter two projects, especially an industrial center, imagine across the street, instead of that lot, you had a Lower Midtown/Cass Park/Brush Park seasonal open air market on Wednesdays and Sundays. The A2 Market is right next door to Community High School, and it works well. This would be sort of like the "front porch" of CT Industrial. Much like the WSU market, it woudn't take away from Eastern Market. Customers, business owners, and [[heck) even CT students and faculty would have access to local and/or organic produce and other goods.

Locals could be encouraged to set up shop, too... there are a lot of poor and working class Detroiters who have skills that lend themselves to microfinanced ventures. Of course, have rules and limit what can be sold so you don't have scrappers or stolen electronics, but what I have in mind would be a Detroit-flavored version of London's Portabello Road Market, one of the marvels of the Old World.

Yes, I'm just a glorified teacher and not an urban planner, but this is a city where a creperie [[started by a teacher) and a barbecue joint [[started by a model) and a bakery [[started by a baker) have made international news. After [[finally) viewing The Social Network, I'm still not a fan of Mark Zuckerberg, but he was right when he said that people [[especially the young demographic we want) is attracted to what's "cool." Sentinels of development like the RenCen are not cool. An eclectic museum, or a behemoth business incubator with a market, or a think tank with frequent conferences, symposia, and community events are cool and what vital cities have.

What WE'D have that they wouldn't [[and this is part and parcel of our working class heritage as a region) is that ANYONE could truly make it here. You don't need spectacular connections or venture capital to be successful. There is a small sentiment among the pioneers here that this is the case; imagine what this area could be like in 3-4 years. Not closed off to outsiders, but a hub with street traffic and commercial activity. That, in turn, would draw other Studio One-like complexes, as we're seeing in Midtown with the new apartment across from Old Main nearly sold out before completion.

[stromberg2]

^^^^^
Really great ideas, English. Your proposals work in about every other large city in America. Why not Detroit?!

Stromberg2

[Islandman]

Second. We shall see what comes to pass.