713,000

[lilpup]

I'm not as pessimistic as Goat but I do agree that there are too many size queens here. Detroit can turn around quickly if the city government gets its act together. Crime won't thrive when there's nothing to steal, no one to buy. Land is cheap and available. The question is what's best going forward - how to mix business and residential compatibly.

[Richard]

Another Forbes list - tweeted by the Metro Times - 2.9% home vacancy rate for Detroit [[national average is 2.7%) and 15.6% for Detroit apartments - Orlando and Las Vegas [[among others that overbuilt) have higher vacancy rates

http://www.forbes.com/2011/03/02/orl...st-cities.html

It is hard to compare Orlando when counting empty spec built rental condos ,it took 3 months for my son and his family to find an affordable 3 bedroom rental in a decent not high priced area,so one cannot really compare it to the real world city stats.$1100 per month rental

I have a house there in a large suburb [[kissimmee) built in 1992 there has not been a empty house in there for over three years and it is a year wait just to be able to rent there.

Orlando now tops Detroit in crime.

[maxx]

713,000? So now can they reduce the size of the city council?

[bartock]

Another Forbes list - tweeted by the Metro Times - 2.9% home vacancy rate for Detroit [[national average is 2.7%) and 15.6% for Detroit apartments - Orlando and Las Vegas [[among others that overbuilt) have higher vacancy rates

http://www.forbes.com/2011/03/02/orl...st-cities.html

http://www.freep.com/article/2011032...2-8-new-Census

[lilpup]

Forbes claims their vacancy rates come from the Census Bureau fourth quarter of 2010 - the Bureau obviously counted differently each time.

[lilpup]

On the plus side - all the stupid crime data ranking lists won't be able to list Detroit if they keep their size cutoffs at 750,000.

[Buy American]

No, it's simply more obvious than ever that we need to diversify our industrial base [[and therefore our economy) to survive. You can't go back to the economic structure of the '50s and '60s. It's time to stop relying on the auto industry as a crutch.

I would think that folks would be sick and tired of living and dying with the car companies by now. I know I am.

If the auto industry was as alive and well as it was back in the 50's and 60's, Detroit would be a thriving City with over 1 million residents today. Maybe you're sick and tired of living and dying with the car companies but that is what Detroit was. Many other manufacturing companies, small businesses, ie., restaurants, barber shops, cleaners, corner markets and too many others to mention were doing business as long as the auto industry was thriving...when it began to fail, so did Detroit.

There are many other contributing factors to Detroits' decline in population. Corrupt leaders using the City coffers as their own ATM's; pay to play, no services, high taxes, inadequate schools, parents who don't care where their children are; families without parents, grandparents raising the young....I could go on and on.

[English]

I'm not surprised. Maybe there is an undercount, but I don't think there are anywhere near 800,000. Perhaps counting all the suburban addresses and those hiding out from immigration/the law/other situations, the true number is 750K.

In my opinion, we're not done with population loss -- unless something changes radically within the next 5 years, we are going to lose elderly and other holdouts. Without major incentives for other groups to move into the city of Detroit, or other unforeseen developments, the number in 2020 will likely be near 500K.

[iheartthed]

I'm not surprised. Maybe there is an undercount, but I don't think there are anywhere near 800,000. Perhaps counting all the suburban addresses and those hiding out from immigration/the law/other situations, the true number is 750K.

In my opinion, we're not done with population loss -- unless something changes radically within the next 5 years, we are going to lose elderly and other holdouts. Without major incentives for other groups to move into the city of Detroit, or other unforeseen developments, the number in 2020 will likely be near 500K.

Well, if the rate of population loss kept pace from 2000-2010 then Detroit's already nearing 690,000...

[Lombaowski]

I don't think the numbers mean much of anything other than it being a sad indictment of the city as a whole over the past few decades. Whether we have 900k or 713k in the city is not important, what is important is the percentage of that population who pays their taxes and invests into their communities. Detroit could have a population north of 1.8 million again but imagine the city with 1.8 million and the same problems it has now.
At some point Detroit will bounce back but a population between 750k and 1 million is probably about right long-term. Problem is who wants to move into Detroit right now? Anyone planning to move to Balduck Park? North Rosedale attractive? How's my old neighborhood of Franklin Park? Make Detroit viable first, worry about the population later.

[NorthEndere]

This is worse than even SEMCOG's estimate, which wasn't generous to the city to begin with, so I don't mind if Bing calls bullshit on the numbers. Losing a quarter of the population in one decade seems a bit much, even for as bad as we all know things have been in the region.

I think this just shows how bad the count was that even Bing is getting involved, now. He'd said very early on that he wouldn't challenge the numbers, but even he knows this is just plain ridiculous. I could see a 20% loss, but there isn't anyway that this is an accurate count.

Every city bitches about being undercounted, but this is just ridiculous. The real number is 750,000 at the lowest.

[MikeM]

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...onsumer-Survey

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ch-27&p=133516

[iheartthed]

I don't think the numbers mean much of anything other than it being a sad indictment of the city as a whole over the past few decades. Whether we have 900k or 713k in the city is not important, what is important is the percentage of that population who pays their taxes and invests into their communities. Detroit could have a population north of 1.8 million again but imagine the city with 1.8 million and the same problems it has now.
At some point Detroit will bounce back but a population between 750k and 1 million is probably about right long-term. Problem is who wants to move into Detroit right now? Anyone planning to move to Balduck Park? North Rosedale attractive? How's my old neighborhood of Franklin Park? Make Detroit viable first, worry about the population later.

I hope that percentage of the population who doesn't care but studiously pays their tax bill is ready to fork over the $240,000,000 that Detroit just lost in federal funding.

[English]

Well, if the rate of population loss kept pace from 2000-2010 then Detroit's already nearing 690,000...

Honestly I am not surprised. I love Detroit as much as anyone here, but I grew up in the inner city, and all my ties are recent. I didn't live in Detroit in the 40s or 50s or 60s... my Detroit is that of the mid-1970s until now.

Something bad happened during the last decade. 12-15 years ago, except for a handful of people, everyone I knew who'd grown up in the city was still there, and so were their parents and grandparents. Today, those numbers are reversed. My family and friend circles are all part of the population bleeding of the past 10 years -- made up of good, solid working class and lower middle class Black folks. This was the demographic that in 2000 swore they'd NEVER leave -- "my house is paid off!", and looked down on those of any race who had.

Today, everyone I grew up with, and my entire extended family [[there are a good 35-40 of us) are all gone. The old "ghettohoods" are just decimated beyond belief. I was hoping that it was because families were doubling and tripling up in homes to save money, but I believe the numbers. The numbers are low, but as I've said, no way are there 800,000 Detroit residents. We will continue to lose people because there are still so many of those stuck in the 'hood who are trying to leave. Out of Detroit, out of Michigan, anything to have a better life.

[Richard]

I think that is what is referred to as voting with your feet.

[detroitbob]

Well, I expected 750,000-775,000 not 713,000...in my lifetime almost a 60% population loss...Whoa...

[English]

I hope that percentage of the population who doesn't care but studiously pays their tax bill is ready to fork over the $240,000,000 that Detroit just lost in federal funding.

$240 million? Wow. No way can Detroit avoid bankruptcy now.

[R8RBOB]

713,777....well it was expected. Drive through areas like Brighmoor and it is a believable number. But this is a sad day not only for Detroit but for Metro Detroit. Detroit loses, everyone loses, period.

[rooms222]

Something bad happened during the last decade. 12-15 years ago, except for a handful of people, everyone I knew who'd grown up in the city was still there, and so were their parents and grandparents. Today, those numbers are reversed. My family and friend circles are all part of the population bleeding of the past 10 years -- made up of good, solid working class and lower middle class Black folks. This was the demographic that in 2000 swore they'd NEVER leave -- "my house is paid off!", and looked down on those of any race who had.

Today, everyone I grew up with, and my entire extended family [[there are a good 35-40 of us) are all gone. The old "ghettohoods" are just decimated beyond belief. .

I agree. I think that the SUV boom that pumped up all of Michigan started to really cause job losses of all types as it petered out. Also, the rise in housing prices in Detroit [[and remortgagings), along with the better times resulted in a horrible bust where people have had to get out and ended up all over the country, not just in the suburbs.

This article, IMO was the best reporting on how the rise in property values became a two edged sword in the neighborhoods of Detroit [[and Metro Detroit).......

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1180989442

[Novine]

I'm not inclined to discount the numbers so quickly. Want a good yardstick of population loss? Look at DPS's enrollment numbers. They've dropped by 50% in 10 years. That's somewhere around 100,000 kids. Many kids went to charters. But you can bet a good percentage of those were families that left the city. Families with school age kids don't even account for a significant percentage of the overall population. If there was an exodus in equal percentages in other age groups, the numbers announced today don't seem so far-fetched.

[softailrider]

I think that is what is referred to as voting with your feet.

Very true, just think about how many more would move if they could afford to.

[Lombaowski]

I agree. I think that the SUV boom that pumped up all of Michigan started to really cause job losses of all types as it petered out. Also, the rise in housing prices in Detroit [[and remortgagings), along with the better times resulted in a horrible bust where people have had to get out and ended up all over the country, not just in the suburbs.

This article, IMO was the best reporting on how the rise in property values became a two edged sword in the neighborhoods of Detroit [[and Metro Detroit).......

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1180989442

Wow, that's powerful stuff.

Also some very good points by English in here. My Detroit is also more recent [[72-86 living) and what we considered ghetto then, is now gone or so abandoned that it really should be. There was a lot of crime when I grew up but it was unthinkable to see an abandoned house anywhere near my neighborhood near W. Chicago and Evergreen. Now that neighborhood has boarded up houses and the fire but has even hit it somewhat [[more towards Tireman than towards Joy).

All the people that lived in my neighborhood are gone except for some elderly who long ago finished paying for their house. For those people they barely hang on to a sense of the past that actually forced my family out. To those people those were the good ole days. Yeah the crack epidemic and runaway crime was better than bad mortgages and total flight from the city.

Those who could leave have left. Many who are left behind wished they had, because now they are stuck. This has happened over and over again since the 1960s, rich flight, white flight, African American flight and just flight these days. At some point this will stop, it has to but whoever is still in that city for the most part is as desperate of a population as you'll find. I always go back to the neighborhood when I'm in town to visit the lady across the street from the house I grew up in. She said her daughter lives in Madison Heights now and that the daughter wants her to move there because our neighborhood is no longer stable enough to be trusted. This includes visits by her grandchildren and great grandchildren, they no longer want to even visit the city anymore. And this is Franklin Park, there are dozens of neighborhoods worse off in every single way.

I am an optimistic person and I really bash those people not from Detroit that hold the city in contempt. But between Detroiters I sometimes have trouble being optimistic, I am terrified I will not only never get to see the Detroit my Dad enjoyed in the 50s...but even the Detroit I enjoyed in the mid to late 70s and early 80s. I mean seriously I know five or six people that live in the city now, 30 years ago almost everyone I knew and most of my family lived within the borders.

Detroit just can't catch a break, hasn't been able to catch one in 30 or 40 years it seems. Not sure what else to say, I love the city like it was my family but it's getting pretty tough for even me to swallow all this bad news year after year, decade after decade.

[NorthEndere]

I'm not inclined to discount the numbers so quickly. Want a good yardstick of population loss? Look at DPS's enrollment numbers. They've dropped by 50% in 10 years. That's somewhere around 100,000 kids. Many kids went to charters. But you can bet a good percentage of those were families that left the city. Families with school age kids don't even account for a significant percentage of the overall population. If there was an exodus in equal percentages in other age groups, the numbers announced today don't seem so far-fetched.

When you combine all public schools [[regular and charter), the drop of students from the district is 30,000 to 40,000 [[there are over 50,000 in public charters), which is what makes me skeptical of the population numbers. DPS had 160,000 or so in the 2000-2001 school year; it had about 130,000 in 2010 when you include both DPS charters and regular schools. I don't think the Census was that far off, but off far enough for it to be statistically and financially significant.

BTW, while most of my family had moved out by the 80's, there are still a lot of them left in the city. In fact, I can think of only one aunt who moved out of the city in the 00's. All of my cousins [[20, 30, and 40-somethings) still live in the city and with their children. I guess that's kind of the opposite of the trend.

[NativeDetroiter]

I'm happy that Mayor Dave Bing is challenging this number. I believe that it is an undercount and we need to count as many people as possible so the city can get the appropriate funding. I'm convinced that there wasn't enough of a push last year to get people counted as there was in 2000.

On another note, while Detroit has lost a lot of it's population over the years, it is still posed for a comeback. We just need to focus on improving our infrastructure [[especially mass transit), investing in education for ALL residents, and improving city services. We need to work on improving the quality of life for our residents. Detroit is located on an international border right between Chicago and Toronto. It is not like we are an unattractive location geographically. We have quality educational institutions and businesses. We just need to be positive and work with what we have. The population can increase overnight if we make the right decisions.

[rid0617]

WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA.
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN.

Know this is off topic but, arn't we buying foreign when GM shuts down plants because they can't get parts out of Japan due to the earthquake? How many Detroiter's could have jobs if these parts were made in Detroit?