713,000

[Lombaowski]

3. Create a new municipal city government; Establish wards [[ In which I don't like).

.

I like some of your ideas but wonder why you don't like the ward system? To me it is representative government, right now the people of Detroit don't have that and hence all the different areas that are ignored. Essentially they have no representation in government, no advocate for their issues.

[lilpup]

I made this chart with applicable transit and Detroit history dates.

auto boom, war boom [[gas & rubber rationing, no cars built for civilian use = forced transit use), post-war decline

[DetroitDad]

Face it folks, People from all over of the world is laughing at Detroit. The first American ruin city in the United States. Republicans are laughing at liberal Detroiters for their politics is lowsy and the unions are crappy. The baised news media is creating Detroit stories as propaganda tool to prevent anyone from living and working there.

I can't wait for the FINAL SOLUTION! for Detroit and its poor residents who are living there. By eminent domain of the U.S. Constitution, the government to shut Detroit down and move its residents to other cities or relocate themselves.

There is another solution and Governor Snyder, THE NERD! can create:


1. Have Detroit merge with all the surounding suburbs to gain population and increase government funding for next census.

2. Downsize almost vacant neighbohorhoods for future developments.

3. Create a new municipal city government; Establish wards [[ In which I don't like).

4. Create better public city services and neighborhood city halls.

5. Create a regional businesses and apply jobs and work programs for those who desperately need.

Detroit needs to do something fast before the 2020 Census where Detroit's population might reach to 1830 levels.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

Will the last person in Detroit please turn off the lights.

Neda, I miss you so.

Danny, as usual, a stellar post.

1. Have Detroit merge with all the surounding suburbs to gain population and increase government funding for next census.
   
   This would also reduce the amount of government needed for the region, and avoid some problems with sticky wages. However, it would meet fierce opposition from some communities who benefit from Detroit, Highland Park, Pontiac, and Inkster's plight, and/or don't want things to change.
   
   
2. Downsize almost vacant neighbohorhoods for future developments.
   
   Great in theory, but would face problem with lawsuits by "real estate investors" who gambled on those areas improving, and would blame the city's intervention for the reason it did not.
   
   
3. Create a new municipal city government; Establish wards [[ In which I don't like).
   
   I of course, also dislike this as a possible shortsighted solution. The most qualified people possibly tend to find their way out of the bad situations which can be characteristic to some areas of the city.
   
   
4. Create better public city services and neighborhood city halls.
   
   I agree with this, and think the city should not be in the business of providing many services it currently provides, but rather should regulate the businesses that know how to provide the services best.
   
   
5. Create a regional businesses [[a regional job bank?) and apply jobs and work programs for those who desperately need [[them).
   
   If I am understanding this correctly, I agree. Job seekers who could choose between getting temporary compensation while undergoing retraining, or could apply to a work program. Essentially, this would, in theory, allow people to choose between capitalism or a form of socialism, something that maybe should be a choice.
   

[illwill]

I think the fastest, easiest and best way for Detroit to re-invent itself is to go bankrupt. We need to officially hit rock bottom, write off the debts, COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURE the entire city and start from scratch.

I think it's a pride thing for Detroit and we don't want to be looked at by the rest of the world "as Detroit finally died". But the ditch is way too deep for Detroit to dig itself out, on it's own. Detroit should file for bankruptcy and start over.

[DetroitDad]

auto boom, war boom [[gas & rubber rationing, no cars built for civilian use = forced transit use), post-war decline

What do you think about something like this scenario:

The post war decline essentially went in hand with the collapse of Detroit's protective "forcefield". The city was essentially left defenseless to all crisis that happened after that point. This would take the form of millions of small punches and jabs, but also larger defined crisis and recessions. Each time, the city lost a little more and a little more, as such happens with societies in collapse or long emergency style disasters [[crisis spanning decades or centuries).

The agony will continue until a force field is reestablished, or there is simply nothing left to obliterate.

PS: In response to illwill's last post, restructuring through bankruptcy is essentially the reestablishment of a force field. Bankruptcy protects the filing entity from further assault or crisis during rebuilding.

[mwilbert]

I think the fastest, easiest and best way for Detroit to re-invent itself is to go bankrupt. We need to officially hit rock bottom, write off the debts, COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURE the entire city and start from scratch.

I think it's a pride thing for Detroit and we don't want to be looked at by the rest of the world "as Detroit finally died". But the ditch is way too deep for Detroit to dig itself out, on it's own. Detroit should file for bankruptcy and start over.

This has been mentioned many times on different threads, but Detroit can't do that unilaterally. You have to have an EFM appointed first, and then the EFM would have to decide that bankruptcy was required. I suspect an EFM appointed by this governor would not do that.

[Danny]

Detroitdad sez from my quotes....Have Detroit merge with all the surounding suburbs to gain population and increase government funding for next census.

This would also reduce the amount of government needed for the region, and avoid some problems with sticky wages. However, it would meet fierce opposition from some communities who benefit from Detroit, Highland Park, Pontiac, and Inkster's plight, and/or don't want things to change.


I say... It will work, just give it try. One day Synder, THE NERD who see Detroit's population decline will take action to secure Detroit's image and regional reputation by proposing a bill in the legislature to amalgamate Detroit and suburbs. It would create a municipal supercity compared to Los Angeles creating a population up to 3 million or more and recieve more goverment funding. If Detroit dies, the suburbs die and Michigan dies with it too.


Downsize almost vacant neighbohorhoods for future developments.

Great in theory, but would face problem with lawsuits by "real estate investors" who gambled on those areas improving, and would blame the city's intervention for the reason it did not.

I say... Have you went to lower west and east side old grid neighborhoods? Have to some parts of NW, SW, North Side and NE sides of Detroit? Each neighborhood had become "Urban Praries" or brownfields. Detroit City Council don't have the resources left to maintian those areas. The people who live in those areas have to fend for themselves against the elements. They will have to move out by U.S. Constitution's eminent domian. Donsizing Detroit's brownfields will save the city millions of dollars. Selling those brownfields to future developers will create a new Neighborhood Empowerment Zone simple tax base like Woodbridge Estates, Brush Park and "New Herman Garden Estates." Yes, the poor and low-income families will be replaced, but Detroit needs some middle class folks back.


WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET


We have two options Fix Detroit or leave it ghostown.


Neda, I miss you so.

[English]

This has been mentioned many times on different threads, but Detroit can't do that unilaterally. You have to have an EFM appointed first, and then the EFM would have to decide that bankruptcy was required. I suspect an EFM appointed by this governor would not do that.

Is there a way that the current Charter Commission can help with this process?

[Danny]

I think the fastest, easiest and best way for Detroit to re-invent itself is to go bankrupt. We need to officially hit rock bottom, write off the debts, COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURE the entire city and start from scratch.

I think it's a pride thing for Detroit and we don't want to be looked at by the rest of the world "as Detroit finally died". But the ditch is way too deep for Detroit to dig itself out, on it's own. Detroit should file for bankruptcy and start over.

Thanks to Synder, THE NERD'S EFM Dictatorship Bill of 2011. EFM can make Detroit fill for bankructcy, elimate its liberal mostly black city council leaders and the mayor out of power. Replace it with EFM's goon squad and restructure Detroit to their conservative liking. You all wait and see. Protesting it or creating a Civil Unrest will not make Synder, THE NERD change his mind. Take the unjust law to the U.S. Supreme Court and APPEAL!!

[English]

If you want the answers to that exact question, read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Urban-.../dp/0691121869

The author, like you, is from Philadelphia and draws comparisons to the two cities. It has to do with my prior posts, ethnic enclaves which Philadelphia has a ton of...and the dependence on one industry.

Detroit had neighborhoods that for square miles supported a plant. Around the plant were specialty shops, metal, tool & die, rubber you name it. Then you had the grocery stores, delis, butchers, barber shops, bars, dime stores and everything else that supported those populations. People walked to work, they lived across the street from the guy they worked across from and they had a few beverages with those folks on a hot summer night. They bought cabins together in the great white north, they went fishing and they went to Tigers games together. In Philadelphia you had people settling with their ethnic groups, in Detroit they settled with their peers. So what happens when that big or medium sized plant closes? Well, chaos happens.

In a thread about the Philadelphia Macy's [[used to be Wannamaker's), I lamented about the state of Philly vs. Detroit. I've also asked why Newark has Cory Booker, and we had Kwame Kilpatrick. Someone explained it to me, and it makes sense.

The mitigating factor for East Coast cities has always been New York City. If Detroit were 2-3 hours closer to Chicago, Detroit would not be Detroit. I know folks who are making a go of it in Philly, and each and every one of them has said "The coolest thing is that I can be in New York in less than an hour." I got job offers all over the country, but universities in Jersey were a complete bust... the competition is just too stiff for anything within a 90 minute/2 hour radius of NYC. A mentor informed me that my Michigan degree, while good, was competing with all the Ivy Leaguers, and those networks are tough to crack.

And New York, while always the nation's principal city, is now along with London, Tokyo, and a few others becoming a city for the global elite. Manhattan Island is now a club for millionaires and billionaires -- I love HGTV, and one of my favorite shows on it is "Selling New York." Like all English majors, I dreamed of living in the Village, but that is now some of the most prime real estate on the planet.

Everything between Boston and DC is very desirable. So you have a place like Baltimore, which is really scary, but it's never going to reach Detroit levels. I was in B'more just a couple of summers ago, deep in a friend's 'hood for an amazing crab boil and barbecue, and nothing reminded me of Detroit. It was more like the rough areas of say, Inkster or Ypsilanti. Bad, but not apocalyptic.

The coasts favor demographics that aren't tied to manufacturing or industrial monoculture. So you're just not going to have a Detroit-sized tragedy on either coast... until the South and Southwest run out of water. That's inevitable, and how we solve it will be interesting. I think Detroit will benefit, but some of my 313 expat buddies have told me they will put a pipe into the Great Lakes and suck it all down to the Sun Belt. And if Canada doesn't like it, we'll go to war.

Gotta love the 21st century, eh?

[Brian1979]

I assume you typed this before seeing Hamtragedy's excellent description of a number of neighborhoods. Being on the border and driving through east side neighborhoods daily, the number does not surprise me in the least, though I do hope for the purposes of federal dollars, the City finds a way to tick above 750,000.

I believe it is somewhere in the 800,000-850,000 range but that's just me, I have been around Detroit for the last 30 years and I don't think that the number is in the 700,000's I just don't. But the census believes it I guess, what is the percentage of people that the census takes? I think the number is off as much as 20%. The reason I said what I did about Brightmoor is because that is by far the most abandoned area in the city of Detroit, there is a reason it's called Blightmoor. I think if Detroit had lost that many people you would notice it.

[iheartthed]

I think the fastest, easiest and best way for Detroit to re-invent itself is to go bankrupt. We need to officially hit rock bottom, write off the debts, COMPLETELY RESTRUCTURE the entire city and start from scratch.

I think it's a pride thing for Detroit and we don't want to be looked at by the rest of the world "as Detroit finally died". But the ditch is way too deep for Detroit to dig itself out, on it's own. Detroit should file for bankruptcy and start over.

Michigan won't let Detroit go bankrupt. The bond rating for every community in southeast Michigan would be immediately downgraded, as would the state'ss.

[English]

Great post English. I hope we never lose people like you.

Thanks! I'll be back in May. My new landlord and I met briefly today. Very excited... my auto insurance is going to triple, though. I need to start shopping around.

Some of these people in the metro area [[INCLUDING RESIDENTS OF DETROIT) would make horrible cooks. They'd bake a cake and think the only ingredient is the sugar or the frosting. Not realizing the cake needs flour too, it also needs eggs and milk. The batter needs to be mixed, the oven preheated, and the cake needs to be baked, preferably in a cake pan. They just think the cake is one thing and focus on one thing only. God help us if we continue to elect politicians that seek to address only one issue hoping it is the band aid fix for every conceivable problem.

All of them.

Agreed. Radical times call for radical solutions.

[Brian1979]

What I have never understood is why was Young re-elected so many times as mayor when he was perhaps the worst mayor in history, except for Kwame. I feel that Coleman was a joke and one of the main reason's that Detroit is in the position it is in today, I'm not saying we can blame him fully but he played a major part in Detroit's decay. I'm also not blaming him for the downfall of the auto industry, that is another thing that killed Detroit. But the bottom line is Coleman Young was one of the worst mayor's in U.S. history.

[DetroitDad]

I think if Detroit had lost that many people you would notice it.

I certainly have, and I think this number is about right.

What I have seen first hand, is a mass migration of over-sized [[often low income) households with multiple families or many children. At the same time, I have been encountering a new breed in suburbia; basically multiple formerly Detroit families who have been buying up mcmansions and typical suburban homes.

I think it is the migration of families and over-sized households moving from the city to both other cities and nearby suburbs, which has resulted in such a drastic loss.

[MikeM]

I think if Detroit had lost that many people you would notice it.

Holy smokes, what rock have you been living under?

[biggus]

Here's the bottom line:

"The losses that we have are completely – or primarily – linked to the decline in the auto industry and in manufacturing in general,” said Professor Lyke Thompson, director of The Center for Urban Studies at Wayne State."

What did anyone expect?

WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA.
OUT OF A JOB YET? KEEP BUYING FOREIGN.

I went car shopping this past weekend, and I looked at the new Ford Fiesta. It is built in Mexico and has only 10% domestic content. I also looked a the Chevrolet Cruze, UAW built in Ohio but at 45% domestic content. Last years Cobalt had an 80% domestic content.

I might end up in a Chrysler yet.

[illwill]

Hey Brian 1976,

That's kind of what I touched on in my previous post. I think Mayor Coleman Young was a Mayor of the times and a Mayor for the people. He was loved by a population of Detroit that was almost completely Black. Blacks felt proud.

But aside from that, other American cities were dying as well. But they had leadership in the 90's and 00's to capitalize on the economic booms. We didn't take advantage of America's time of economic prosperity when we had the chance. And as much as I hate to kick a man when he's down, I'm talking mostly about Kwame Kilpatrick. Archer made a lot of bad moves too, especially along the riverfront and displacing hunders of people but he re-established relationships with the burbs and also put a lot of positive changes in place for the future. Unfortunately KK didn't take the ball and run.

[Brian1979]

I always had that impression on why Coleman was elected so many times as mayor.

I thought Archer was at least trying to bring in some new ideas to get the city going in the right direction, Detroit has been stuck in the 1960's since the 1960's and that is another reason why it's in the shape it is in. Something major needs to happen to get Detroit back on it's feet, cleaning up the DPS, replacing the entire city council with people that actually have a clue, establishing a good park system and improving the police and fire department would be a start. But now we're going to lose federal dollars due to the shrinking population so I don't know how these services would improve. After this appeal I hope the population is over 750,000. Even if the population was 5% off which it probably is at least the population would be 749,466.

Does anyone know how many people live in midtown? I heard about Snyder's 15,000 people by 2015 but I wondered how many people were living in midtown currently.

[Buy American]

I went car shopping this past weekend, and I looked at the new Ford Fiesta. It is built in Mexico and has only 10% domestic content. I also looked a the Chevrolet Cruze, UAW built in Ohio but at 45% domestic content. Last years Cobalt had an 80% domestic content.

I might end up in a Chrysler yet.

"Even with recent layoffs and plant closings, Ford, GM and Chrysler contribute far more to our economy than foreign automakers do. More of the cars they sell here are made here. Three times as many of their workers are based here. And their vehicles contain twice as much U.S. parts. On a jobs per car basis, buying a Ford, GM or Chrysler supports twice as many jobs as buying a foreign automakers’ vehicle." The Level Field Institute

[rustic2]

I am extremely disappointed in Bing's reaction.

Sure, there is a lot of money and pride at stake, but nothing says "denial" more clearly than, "This can't be right" and, "We're gonna challenge these numbers."

This has been the reaction to every census since at least 1980. If they devoted as much energy into making things right, into improving safety and services, as they do to huffing and puffing at news like this, things might turn.

I believe 713,777. Just look around! Recent estimates were probably inflated.

Undercounting has been a hot-button issue for decades, and the Census Bureau goes to great lengths to get an accurate number despite the obstacles many throw in its way. They know this could come back to bite them if they're not on target.

While there are good things happening in the city and good people in Detroit government [[and a lot of bad ones; I won't rehash recent history), the net result is that thousands of people have voted with their feet. Challenging the census amounts to wishing it were not so, but these leaders have got to accept it and move on, and do things like improve the police department and bring the city's expenses in line with revenues and other such changes that have been talked about ad nauseum but in fact have only gotten worse.

I am a Detroit believer and am generally skeptical of arguments that blame "the victim mentality" and "the welfare state" for urban woes like Detroit's. But, sorry, this just pisses me off, it is not time to play the victim, it's time to deal with reality.

OK, Bing's only two years in office and we can't expect miracles. But unless things change, and soon, we're going to be talking about another 25-percent drop [[that's 535,000) in 2021.

[NorthEndere]

I was messing around the new American FactFinder [[a horribly user-unfriendly tool), and was able to find the population of the three Census tracts that cover downtown. The population came to only 5,287, a full 13% down from the previous Census. The two tracts west of Woodward posted significant gains, but the single tract that covers the eastern half of downtown posted a significant loss that offset the gains across Woodward. I racked my brain wondering about what would account for this, and the only thing I can think of is that the Millender Center must have ridiculously low occupancy since it's the only large residential complex in that half of downtown.

That tract went from having 2,921 residents in 2000 to only having 1,438. That's a loss of 1,483 residents, or a full 50% of the population of eastern downtown. Did the construction of Ford Field and Comerica displace a lot of people, too? I can't seem to remember.

In other micro-data, it looks like the tract that covers Corktown also posted a loss. Midtown was also a mixed bag. Not all of the info is on the FactFinder, yet, but what I was able to find was the tract that covered the Jeffries East Projects [[the low-rises across from the main Jeffries) posted growth as did the tract that covers the bulk of Wayne State and the neighborhood immediately across Woodward from it [[cultural center - east). On the other hand, the tract that includes the DMC and Cultural Center - West saw declines. Info still isn't out yet on the Cass Park census tracts or Brush Park and Brewsters.

I'll just put up a few more, but it seems Woodbridge posted a slight decline, but the tract that covers what were the Jeffries [[now Woodbridge Estates) posted a HUGE increase going from 205 people in 2000 to 1,216 people in 2010. The tract that covers northern Lafayette Park saw a gain, but the tract that covers the apartments immediately north of Jefferson on the south-end of the development saw a decrease.

Lastly [[for real this time), the biggest percentage gain in the entire city was the tract that wraps around the southern and western border Hamtramck [[but includes none of that city). This largely industrial district [[and pretty large district, physically) went from having 8 residents to 3,762. The idea of the RIC is definitely something that needs to be replicated around other plants in the city where applicable, no?

[R8RBOB]

I always had that impression on why Coleman was elected so many times as mayor.

I thought Archer was at least trying to bring in some new ideas to get the city going in the right direction, Detroit has been stuck in the 1960's since the 1960's and that is another reason why it's in the shape it is in. Something major needs to happen to get Detroit back on it's feet, cleaning up the DPS, replacing the entire city council with people that actually have a clue, establishing a good park system and improving the police and fire department would be a start. But now we're going to lose federal dollars due to the shrinking population so I don't know how these services would improve. After this appeal I hope the population is over 750,000. Even if the population was 5% off which it probably is at least the population would be 749,466.

Does anyone know how many people live in midtown? I heard about Snyder's 15,000 people by 2015 but I wondered how many people were living in midtown currently.

Hmm, Brian, I am curious if your screenname reflects your year of birth. If you weren't born in 1979 then my apologizes.

Brian, in your previous post, you were claiming that Coleman Young was one of the worst mayors ever. I excused it as hyperbole and I try to ignore hyperbole. Your next post sounds silly. You said Detroit has been stuck in the 1960's since the 1960's. Well, for the record, I was not born in the 60's. I was in born in 1970. That said, I have no idea how Detroit was in the 60's unless I heard second from my mother for example or the neighbors and based on what I heard, Detroit is no way stuck in the 60's.

Something else you mention caught my attention because I did experience this. You said Detroit should establish a good park system. Growing up in the "D" I recall my days as a young on the playground by my house. The kids in my neighborhood spent many days at the park and at our park there was an employee of the Park and Recreation dept.

This employee of the city would spend time with the kids conducting activities for us youth. He would have sports equipment so we can play basketball, football, baseball. If there was a female, she would have that plastic strings and beads so the girls can make whatever it was they made. On hot days, the employee of the city would have a sprinkler for the fire hydrant so we can get wet. I remember the playground on Blaine and Linwood, the kids there would get lunch in the summer.

These things were possible because the city had money to do these things. Anyone remember the Rouge swimming pools in the summer. Packed with people. Again this was because the money was there and poof, the money was gone and the perks of being a Detroiter was gone.

Detroit's decay was ongoing but when the money was gone, the Detroit I knew as a kid was gone and waiting for the kids, crime was waiting. Crime was waiting to turn children into dope dealers, car thieves and murderers. With no money to spend on the parks, the parks went into decay and the thugs used them as their spot. The same park that I played as a kid was now the spot to smoke weed and drink alcohol.

To finish this, Coleman Young in the beginning was good toward Detroit but he was flawed because he stayed too long in the job and he was out of ideas and out of money. I can't say he was the worst mayor but I can say that the 80's was not good to him.

[Novine]

"I was messing around the new American FactFinder [[a horribly user-unfriendly tool), and was able to find the population of the three Census tracts that cover downtown."

It would be helpful to see those numbers associated with the geographic areas. The problem with maps showing population changes in percentages is that they don't give any sense of the actual numbers involved. If a place has a really low population to start, a relatively modest increase in actual numbers can look like a huge increase in percentages. Seeing the actual increases and declines in the various tracts should give a real idea of what areas are making real progress versus being a statistical blip on the map.

[Gistok]

I was just looking at the census statistics for St. Clair County. They went from 164,000 in 2000 to 163,000 in 2010. I bet that it would have been a much bigger loss if some of the Macomb County sprawl didn't start creeping into the lower reaches of St. Clair County [[New Baltimore area, Algonac, Marine City).

The central and northern parts of that county [[including Port Huron) likely all lost population, hence the net loss of 1,000 people countywide.