I just bought a 2010 Ford Fusion SEL

[jiminnm]

Congrats JSB. I think Ford will be sole US car company in the next 5-10 years.

[Retroit]

You can argue all day about final assembly but at least Ford and GM aren't hiding behind a false currency value to sell cars.

I've been putting off discussing this, but since you keep bringing it up, I thought I'd threadjack to tell you that I used to have the same misconception. As it turns out, the only manipulation China has done with their currency is peg the yuan/renminbi to the US dollar. This has worked out to the disadvantage of the US because of our abysmal fiscal policy failures, but you can't blame China for exercising their sovereign right.

This article debunks much of the accusations against Chinese currency manipulation: http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/a...articleid=1219

Shortly after this article was written [[2005) the Chinese did allow the yuan/renminbi to float, but within a narrow range.

If you have contradictory information, please post. I am still learning about this myself.

Sorry to threadjack! Hope this will be of some value to others.

[rooms222]

Congrats on your car. According to Retroit's link, you bought the midsize car with the highest amount of North American parts of any of them...----95%.....As a resident of a city on one of the major borders of North America, I think that's wonderful!

We have had a Mexican assembled ZX2 [[from the same plant, I believe) in our family for about six years now, and it has been a fun and reliable car....

[Angry Dad]

I'll go head to head.

In 1995 Japan dropped their prime to a half percent.

It has not gone above that and often lower since.

In consideration of their trade surplus with us at that time, that is beyond a doubt manipulation of currency.

Heck the last CEO of Toyota is on record saying 20% of their profits are due to currency trades.

This last quarter Toyota posted a larger loss than GM.

Why? Our rate cut that is comparable to theirs has taken effect.

Consider the highjack over.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2008...312299970/1176

[Buy American]

What's so damn hard to understand???

PURCHASE FROM THE BIG 3....PROFITS STAY IN THE U.S.

PURCHASE FOREIGN....PROFITS GO OVERSEAS.

Can't get much simpler than that.

WHAT YOU DRIVE, DRIVES AMERICA!

[wash_man]

"All you crapehangers out there will never see the true value of purchasing one of the Big 3."

I do. I just don't see the value of the Big 3 moving all the assembly out of the U.S.

WHERE YOUR CAR WAS BUILT DRIVES AMERICA!

Oh, wait....the Fusion is built in MEXICO.
And the Vue, and the Caddy SRX, and the PT Cruiser, and the Journey, and the....... you get the picture. Nice "American" cars!

[Buy American]

What a hard headed so and so......

The companies are BASED in America. Profits from the Big 3 stay here.

Companies based in Japan or China...profits go there. If certain minds can't comprehend that then there is no use in me trying to explain.

[Angry Dad]

"All you crapehangers out there will never see the true value of purchasing one of the Big 3."

I do. I just don't see the value of the Big 3 moving all the assembly out of the U.S.

WHERE YOUR CAR WAS BUILT DRIVES AMERICA!

Oh, wait....the Fusion is built in MEXICO.
And the Vue, and the Caddy SRX, and the PT Cruiser, and the Journey, and the....... you get the picture. Nice "American" cars!

Yeah this thread has gone to hell.

Root cause the issues with jobs and investment. The political structure of this nation has been misled and has misled. If you really think that American corporations do not want to produce and sell here you are simply a fool. They have been given reasons to not do so.

Management of trade IS a responsibility of a government.

Our government has placed a higher priority upon the consumption of goods than the production of goods. It is a recipe for disaster.

[jiminnm]

What a hard headed so and so......

The companies are BASED in America. Profits from the Big 3 stay here.

Companies based in Japan or China...profits go there. If certain minds can't comprehend that then there is no use in me trying to explain.

Did you consider Chrysler an American car company when they were owned by Daimler [[a German company)? Will you consider Chrysler an American car company if they become majority owned by Fiat [[which will happen if current discussions become an agreement and Chrysler survives)?

[Retroit]

Buy American is correct. Those that argue that a foreign automaker that builds a factory in the US creates jobs here and therefore is good for us neglect to factor in all the jobs that have been lost as a result of American automaker factories that have closed as a result of Americans buying foreign cars. The cars built in those foreign automaker US factories are sold in the States in lieu of American cars that would have been built here. Therefore, no new net jobs are created.

Now, with American brand cars built in Mexico, it's a different story. These cars are sold to Americans [[United States Americans, not North Americans). Therefore, they benefit us because we are, to put it bluntly, exploiting the low cost labor of Mexico. It is true that American jobs are lost because these cars could be made in the US, but whenever cheap foreign labor is exploited, it benefits the exploiting country's economy and more jobs are created to replace those jobs lost. This is has been proven historically.

As for Canada, Canadian autoworkers are paid comparable to American autoworkers. It is not a factor. Consider Canada a part of the US [[unless you are Canadian, of course!)

When a foreign automaker builds cars here, they are not exploiting American workers in the same way. In fact, it is detrimental to them from a labor standpoint. But it is the price they are willing to pay to receive state incentives and to avoid pressure from the US government which is trying to reduce the trade deficit.

So, bottom line, the priority should be to buy:
1. An American built American automaker car [[include Canada)
2. A foreign made American automaker car [[unless the exploitation of cheap foreign labor bothers you)
3. An American made foreign automaker car [[because this forces the foreign automakers to compete with us at least in terms of autoworker wages)
4. A foreign made foreign automaker car

Once you start looking at foreign vs. domestic content, it gets more complicated because you have to sum up the parts, but it could be done.

[Sludgedaddy]

No need to worry or argue about strictly American made content. With Agri-businees booming for the small farms in Michigan, the Amish are going to grow and market organically grown sex toys.

[1KielsonDrive]

There's just sooooo much luuuuve here at DY.

[Retroit]

no need to worry or argue about strictly american made content. With agri-businees booming for the small farms in michigan, the amish are going to grow and market organically grown sex toys.

What America Masturbates, Masturbates America!

[jgavrile]

Bottom line is, the car is assembled in Mexico. Ford likes to pull the wool over everyone's eyes making you thing its made in the States.
They assemble the Focus in Wayne, not the Fusion.
Also the new Focus coming, that they are bragging about ,will be the European version made here. Not as good quality as the one being made here now. Totally engineered in Europe. This way they can lay off the white collar engineers here and scale down Dearborn.

[LodgeDodger]

A new car is always exciting--even more so if it's your first!

Many "Happy Miles" to you.

[mjs]

So, if the idea is to buy from an American owned company because the main thing is where the profits go, shouldn't the big three buy primarily from US owned suppliers? I'm just curious as the worker of an American owned supplier in an industry where American owned companies have almost vanished. You guys also know that management receives pay and bonuses and stockholders get the profits. Asian nationals can buy GM stock, thus get the profits, though they prefer the government bonds that are sold to run them.

BTW, all 14 vehicles I've owned have had big three name plates, and despite the frustration of hearing this fraudulent buy American hoopla, that's probably going to stay that way.

[mjs]

Sorry for the sidebar Johnnie. I'm excited for you and looking at the Focus and Fusions myself. Everyone I know that has them says great things about them.

[Retroit]

So, if the idea is to buy from an American owned company because the main thing is where the profits go, shouldn't the big three buy primarily from US owned suppliers?

Of course. But if American car makers are trying to compete with cheaper foreign cars that are built with cheaper foreign components, then they too will use cheaper foreign components in order to keep the price of their cars down.

So, just as American car buyers shift to foreign made cars, American car makers must shift to foreign made components to be competitive.

And to carry it one step further, I wouldn't be surprised if many American owned suppliers [[perhaps your own - no offense) get a lot of their components and raw materials from foreign sources.

The only ways to stop this trend are: 1. Convince Americans to "buy American", which is not going to happen as long as foreign goods are cheaper. or 2. Impose as high a tariff as necessary on foreign made goods so that they do not have a price advantage, which is not going to happen since American lawmakers don't want to ruin their chances of getting a high-paying foreign lobbyist job once they get voted out of office.

[East Detroit]

Buying GM stock doesn't get you GM profits...

Unless they've been paying HUGE dividends. Maybe people should check that before posting.

Profits coming back to Metro Detroit mean ancillary businesses also benefit, that the charitable goods and services are expressed here [[you know, like Ford employees all working 16 hours of paid community service, the Big 3 sponsoring the arts and other foundations, etc), the upkeep of infrastructure, etc etc.

Even if you work in a sandwich shop and you sneeze all over the food, guess what... you're probably benefitting from the Big 3 being here.

Too bad that the self-loathing Detroiters had to turn this into yet another clueless bashing of the Motor City. Once again, you're not indentured servants... please feel free to re-locate.

[mjs]

East Detroit, if I work at a sandwich shop in Pittsfield, I probably benefit from Toyota being there. If my sandwich shop is down south, I benefit from Toyota being there. People keep claiming that it doesn't matter where the cars are made; it matters where the profits go. I'm not understanding that argument. I'm not buying they'd say that if Michigan had the Toyota plants and the South had the GM plants.

Retroit, I agree that the big three should go to the better deal. I resent the hypocrisy of doing it and then scolding others for wanting to do the same. Who has to make the harder decision, the multimillionaire GM exec worried that keeping a plant in the US might mean he can't get a third house or the waitress worried that buying an American car might mean she won't make rent on her small apartment?

Tariffs are blocked by the lobbying groups of the buyers. When 26 of 31 American steel companies were in bankruptcy a decade ago, nobody lobbied harder against increased tariffs than the big three. As a result, almost all of them were bought out by foreign companies. Ironically, the resulting high market concentration put the steel companies in the best pricing position since Kennedy and prices spiked the last few years.

[Retroit]

mjs, you raise excellent points!

If you didn't work at a sandwich shop outside a Toyota plant, you would probably be working in a sandwich shop outside a GM plant. In other words, Toyota isn't building any cars in addition to those that could be built by GM. The same number of cars will be sold in the US whether they are foreign or domestic.

As for the hypocrisy of tariffs, I agree it is ironic but it is actually beneficial to have high tariffs on manufactured goods and low/no tariffs on raw materials. Steel, although perhaps not considered a raw material like its components iron ore and coal, is nevertheless a building block of the finished product [[cars). That's not to say I don't wish we could have kept the steel industries in the States. But again, without a tariff on the finished goods [[imported cars), the domestic automakers are at a disadvantage against the foreign automakers who had access to cheaper steel.

Look at it this way: the greatest profit is made on the finished product. The cheaper the resources you have that go into building that product, whether it's steel or human labor, the greater a profit you can make. And without protection of the finished product [[with tariffs), the United States manufacturers are at a disadvantage against their foreign counterparts.

[anjnp]

[quote=Retroit;20172]The transmission is made in Japan, 40% of the parts are made in Mexico [[including the engine), 55% of the parts are made in the US or Canada, and the car is assembled in Hermasillo, Mexico.

Since my boyfriend is on the line building the 2010 Fusion's transmission daily, I believe him when he says that my new 2010 Fusion has a transmission built by the folks at 18 1/2 and Van Dyke in Sterling Heights.

To the original poster: GREAT CHOICE! I love mine!!

[Retroit]

Since my boyfriend is on the line building the 2010 Fusion's transmission daily, I believe him when he says that my new 2010 Fusion has a transmission built by the folks at 18 1/2 and Van Dyke in Sterling Heights.

Well, I wouldn't want you to disbelieve anything your boyfriend tells you. After all, "men are always right".

[mallory]

Actually, I think the car is sweet looking and I have to hand it to Ford, they have some great looking rides. Except for that Flex thing. WTF were they thinking? I like the boxes that have been and are coming out, including the Scion, the Kia Soul and the Nissan Cube, but the Flex doesn't do it for me at all. That's ok, I'll keep my Honda Element. Regardless, props to Ford for some stellar rides.

[wherecarsaremade]

Hello, I am the infamous blogger of wherecarsaremade.com.

First and foremost, I am one person. I am not some media conglomerate or media type. I am an engineer in the auto industry and live in Michigan. I help design the cars you drive everyday. I made this blog as an experiment to determine where cars are actually made, not where we think they are made. I did not intend to create chaos on your forums.

Second, some people have questioned where I get my information from. I get it right off the window stickers of the cars on the dealer lot. I don’t quote news sources because I am not using them. Sorry if the information I provide is difficult to digest, but these facts are directly on the vehicle’s window sticker [[printed by the manufacturer) and exactly as the consumer sees it. My source is mentioned in both the “about� entry and “comparison� entry of the blog. Maybe in the future, I will include the VIN number as my citation, but the VIN typically only provides where the vehicles were assembled. More about that later.

Third, we are talking about two different vehicles, the 2009 Ford Fusion and the 2010 Ford Fusion. My blog entry is for the 2009 model year. I apologize for not explicitly mentioning the model year in the “comparison� entry of the blog. I have since updated the entry to reflect this information. However, this thread started with respect to the 2010 Fusion which has a 6-speed automatic. The 2009 had a 5-speed automatic with the 4 cylinder. They are likely from two different transmission plants. Furthermore, does every 2009 Ford Fusion have a transmission from Japan? Maybe not if they have two different transmission suppliers. Am I sure of that? No, I cannot look at every window sticker on every Ford Fusion to know for sure. As previously stated, I am only one person. In fact from what I have observed, not every Ford Fusion has it parts origin on its window sticker.

My blog entry implies nothing about the 2010 model year. The vehicle has been completely redesigned since the 2009 model year. Did the person who started this thread buy a real American car? I don’t know; only the owner can tell us what was on the window sticker.

I am sorry if my blog has offended people, but the American people need to know the truth. When I went to Joseph Ford in Grand Blanc, MI during December of 2008, the sticker on the 2009 Ford Fusion stated it was made in Hermosillo, Mexico with 55% USA/Canadian parts and 40% Mexican-made parts. The 4 cylinder engine was from Mexico and the 5 speed automatic was from Japan. This is a fact because this was the car on my dealer’s lot, and this was the information Ford provided me about this vehicle through the window sticker. If you are questioning this information, then you are questioning Ford.

Finally, a tip, if you want to know if the vehicle you are looking at new or used was assembled in the USA. Look at the VIN number. If it starts with a 1 [[one), 4 [[four), or 5 [[five), it was assembled in the USA. If it starts with a 2 [[two), it was assembled in Canada. If it starts with a 3 [[three), it was assembled in Mexico, Costa Rica, or the Cayman Islands. If it is anything else it is likely not North American, check it at wikipedia.org [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle...rer_Identifier).

Let us get through this recession with our health and our homes. Thank you.