Higher gas tax

**kraig** · May-14-09, 10:40 PM

[Thursday, May 14, 2009
Mich. gas tax, vehicle fees would rise under plan

David Eggert / Associated Press

Lansing -- Michigan's gasoline tax and vehicle registration fees would rise over five years under a plan to generate more money for roads and bridges.
Supporters of a 13-bill package announced Thursday say motorists would pay an extra $13 a month if the plan is passed. Backers acknowledge it will be tough to get higher taxes and fees through the Legislature, but say there is no excuse not to fix crumbling roads.
The legislation would eliminate the 19-cents-a-gallon gasoline tax and instead tax the wholesale price of gas, because fuel consumption is declining. The proposal also would raise vehicle registration fees.
Efforts by road builders and business groups to boost transportation funding have stalled for the last four years.

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Everyone call your state reps and senators and say hell naw.

Bearinabox · May-14-09, 10:57 PM

So are you saying let the roads crumble? What costs more, a gas tax increase or having your car pounded to smithereens by potholes?

**kraig** · May-15-09, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by Bearinabox

So are you saying let the roads crumble? What costs more, a gas tax increase or having your car pounded to smithereens by potholes?

No, I'm not saying let the roads crumble. What I am saying is that MDOT has done a very poor job in managing the maintenance and construction of the roads, so why give them more to mismanage? What I am saying is that the State of Michigan has one of the highest gas taxes in the country and has little to show for it, so why let them increase what we're paying? What I am saying is that if we have the opportunity to fight legislation that's going to cost us more money we should do so. What I'm saying is over the course of a year we pay more than enough in gas taxes to pay for a brand new set of tires. And finally, what I'm saying is that even if we pay the higher costs, history has shown that we're not going to have better roads.

**Campfire Girl** · May-15-09, 07:58 AM

Agreed, Kraig - I saw that article this morning, directly underneath the story of hundreds of dealerships closing and thousands of people soon to be unemployed. We are definitely overtaxed and there is little if any oversight as to how these funds are used or how "lasting" these road repairs are, after a single year.

Stosh · May-15-09, 08:16 AM

Here's a thought. I can see places where there is little to no truck traffic as a normal rule, where the road damage is minimal to none. I can also see stretches on the same road, that are heavily traveled by trucks, that are pothole riddled messes. Why do we still insist on the absurdly heavy weight limits on trucks in Michigan? Why don't we adopt the standards of the states like Ohio and Indiana?

Seems to me that this would kill two birds with one stone. Save our roads from damage, and possibly create jobs as well for truck drivers.

**kraig** · May-15-09, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Stosh

Here's a thought. I can see places where there is little to no truck traffic as a normal rule, where the road damage is minimal to none. I can also see stretches on the same road, that are heavily traveled by trucks, that are pothole riddled messes. Why do we still insist on the absurdly heavy weight limits on trucks in Michigan? Why don't we adopt the standards of the states like Ohio and Indiana?

Seems to me that this would kill two birds with one stone. Save our roads from damage, and possibly create jobs as well for truck drivers.

Ohio and Indiana only border other states. The state of Michigan borders another country, as well as, other states. But, that doesn't mean it couldn't work. It's just that we would have to rely on MDOT, at its inept best, to come up with a viable plan. Which doesn't seem to be its forte.

**Roq** · May-15-09, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by kraig

Everyone call your state reps and senators and say hell naw.

Agreed until they figure out how to make repairs LAST. I can drive into Ohio, Canada, Illinois, etc.. and their roads in no way equal the piss poor shape ours are in.

**East Detroit** · May-15-09, 06:03 AM

Well, now we know why the Freep had an article last week about the roads causing ~$300 of damage etc average for each person. Getting us ready to pay more.

**milesdriven** · June-07-09, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Roq

Agreed until they figure out how to make repairs LAST. I can drive into Ohio, Canada, Illinois, etc.. and their roads in no way equal the piss poor shape ours are in.

I moved to Toledo last fall to take a job as a field rep, and it the past 8 months I've driven 70,000 miles across the midwest. Michigan has more isolated terrible spots [[I275/I94 interchange, which broke my Aerostar), but overall the roads are not much worse than IN or OH The IN toll road costs $6.75 to drive from end to end, and it is in terrible shape [[it's been privatized). Also, many state and US highways in OH have deplorable grades, and no shoulders. MI's roads are much safer to drive on, and the signage is also far superior.

**Funaho** · May-27-09, 03:49 PM

Weight limits factor in a great deal here. It's all the trucks that are tearing up the roads; you can observe this directly by noting that the left lanes are usually in much better shape than the center or right lanes.

Bad materials? It happens sometimes but I don't think it's the major factor. Certainly MDOT isn't going to deliberately pick bad materials and I'm not sure there's any thing to suggest that vendor corruption is any worse here than anywhere else.

**mjs** · May-30-09, 09:58 PM

I came across this when I was trying to find yearly gas price increases. Kelly Blue Book's 9.8% per year sounds high.

Looking at this state by state tax per gallon comparison, our gas tax of 19 cents on gas, 15 cents on diesel, and 12 cents on ethanol and biodiesel seems to be in line with all the other states including Indiana and Illinois. And Michigan already seems to be on the high side of Sales Tax and Motor Vehicle fees. The Federal Highway Administration even knows how each state divies up its revenue. My favorite is the country comparison of gas tax per gallon.

COUNTRY. . GAS . DIESEL

Belgium . . . . 419 . . . 270

France . . . . .. 426 . . . 328

Germany . . .. 451 . . . 350
Italy . . . . . . .. 408 . . . 332
Japan . . . . . .. 263 . . . 167
Netherlands . . 480 . . . 317
UK . . . . . . . . 441 . . . 453
US . . . . . . . .. 39 . . . . 45

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/mmfr/nov08/trmfuel.cfm
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/hwytaxes/2008/mv103pt1.cfm
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/hwytaxes/2008/mf106.cfm
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/mmfr/nov08/mftrates.cfm

**mjs** · May-30-09, 10:00 PM

You would think Michigan wouldn't deliberately pick a #160,000 truck weight when everyone else maxes out at #80,000, but they do.

**kraig** · June-04-09, 10:47 AM

Thursday, June 4, 2009
MDOT: Drivers can afford gas tax

Official says falling revenue threatens many road projects

David Eggert / Associated Press

Lansing -- Drivers can afford to pay higher gasoline taxes to improve their roads, Michigan's top transportation official said this week while warning more than 125 projects will be delayed if funding is not increased.
State Department of Transportation Director Kirk Steudle estimated motorists would pay an extra 16 cents per week -- "a stick of gum" -- for every penny increase in the 19-cents-a-gallon gas tax. He urged lawmakers to support a proposal to convert the gas tax to a percentage tax on the wholesale price of gas, which would rise at capped amounts as prices at the pump increase.
The gas tax could be as high as 34 cents a gallon in five to seven years under the plan that has been announced but not yet officially introduced. The tax would drop slightly this year, reach 24 cents in 2010 and rise no higher than 3 additional cents annually in subsequent years.
Steudle said people do not think twice about buying a $2 or $4 cup of coffee once a week or even every day.
"This will break everybody's back? Really? A half-pack of gum is going to break everybody's back? Let's put this in perspective," Steudle told the House and Senate Transportation committees.
Yet legislators who sit on the panels said it is politically difficult to ask motorists to pay more, though they agreed more money is needed for roads, bridges and other transportation programs. The gas tax was last raised in 1997 when Republican John Engler was governor.
"We're going to need the top leaders in our state to step up," said Rep. Marty Knollenberg, R-Troy. "They're AWOL. ... That's frustrating to me."
Democratic Gov. Jennifer Granholm, however, is for the funding plan -- under which most vehicle registration fees also would nearly double over five years. So the ball is in the Legislature's court. Hearings are expected to continue, and no action -- if any -- is expected until the House and Senate first approve a state budget for the fiscal year that starts Oct. 1.
To illustrate the urgency of the problem, Steudle distributed a list of more than 125 road and bridge projects around Michigan that recently were scrapped from the state's five-year construction and resurfacing plan. The projects will be restored if funding is boosted, he said.
The state's gas tax is paid per gallon, so when the price of gas goes up there is not more money for roads. In fact, gas tax revenue is down as people buy more fuel-efficient cars, drive less and move to other states in the recession.
The 6 percent sales tax on gas rises as pump prices go up, but that revenue mostly is designated for K-12 public schools.
Starting in the fall of 2010, Michigan could lose $763 million a year in federal transportation funding because it will not have enough matching funds -- costing the state jobs, according to the state.
David Eggert can be reached at deggert@ap.org

**mjs** · June-04-09, 11:10 AM

I don't buy $4 cups of coffee and even if I did, two bad investments doesn't make them both right. Lets do the math: 1 piece per cent of increase x a 15 cent increase x 52 weeks per year = 780 pieces of gum per year. At 16 cents a piece, thats an additional $125 per year for a total bill of $285 per year plus registration. More for those that drive above average miles or get below average fuel efficiency. I'll pay it if they quit writing laws that destroy my car and what was bought with last year's $160 per motorist.

**Danny** · June-04-09, 11:24 AM

We have experiencing higher gas prices as a roller coaster ride for the past 40 years. Even from the days of the OPEC oil crisis where over 70% of the gas stations in the United States experience "NO GAS!" which led to the Japanese automobile industries to get heavy and produce fuel efficient cars and the Big Three sunk. When these gas prices increase don't pout or panic. It will go down when world demand or politicial foriegn conflicts end.

Last year our gas prices in Michigan reach up to $4.20 a gallon causing people to make drastic decisions about transportation to buying a new car from the Big Three.

Face it folks. The Arabs, Canadians, Russians and Venezuelians produce 70% of the world's oil and this nation gets the most of it next to China. The U.S. and Antartica has the most oil desposits in Earth, but government bureaucracy and enviromental lobbyists said "HANDS OFF!" Until we find alternative sources of fuel to drive our "guzzle-mobiles" Oil and gas through foriegn importation is king.

Trainman · June-15-09, 09:16 PM

If they put in writing to give the FULL ten percent of the state fuel tax to existing transit systems such as SMART and DDOT then I'm for this.

Unfortunately, the purpose of the SMART property tax next August 2010 is to replace the state fuel tax and not augment it. If our state matched federal grants for SMART and DDOT then maybe cities like Livonia would come back

Please support Bring Back SMART to Livonia and southeast Michigan

Go to Google and type save fuel tax. See first website

**Hypestyles** · June-07-09, 02:52 PM

we'll see.. if it's 10 cents, okay.. if it's $2 bucks, um, no..

how about a tire tax?.. push for more recycling of rubber..

**kraig** · June-15-09, 10:17 AM

This is for all of you that think higher taxes lead to better roads.

LANSING, Mich. [[AP) - Michigan's state parks need fix-up money.

But a plan to drop park entrance fees and instead ask drivers to pay higher vehicle registration fees may stall.

Under the legislation, park visitors no longer would pay $6 for a daily sticker or $24 for an annual pass.

Instead, motorists could pay $10 when applying for or renewing their license plate every year. In return, they would get unlimited access to state parks, forests, recreation areas and boating sites.

Motorists could choose not to pay the fee and to stay out of the parks.

Supporters say the plan would provide more money to fix up the state's aging parks and recreation areas.

Opponents say vehicle registration fees should be used only to improve crumbling roads.

**Novine** · June-15-09, 02:33 PM

Wait until we're riding the maglev train! These guyshave snookered a lot of gullible fools. No wonder Lansing politicians are embracing it.

http://detnews.com/article/20090615/...rail-prototype

**kraig** · June-15-09, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Novine

Wait until we're riding the maglev train! These guyshave snookered a lot of gullible fools. No wonder Lansing politicians are embracing it.

http://detnews.com/article/20090615/...rail-prototype

I know a way to get public funding.

I'll tell them that Matty Moroun wants to privately fund the same thing. They'll throw public funding at it then. Unlike the OTSC, I know how to play this game.