Lost another movie.. just the beginning thanks to Rick and company

[detmsp]

Outside of California, New York, Illinois... and maybe Georgia... there aren't many states that have TV shows from a major network's studio fully produced locally. How many actors and production staff on Detroit 1-8-7 pay Michigan taxes? Heck, would the Chrysler Super Bowl ad have even happened without the film credits???

I'm not doubting that all of this spending has created jobs. It just seems that it has created nothing but temporary jobs and as such cannot be viewed as a long term investment. Why not spend tax money on creating more permanent jobs?

Look at what has happened recently... Incentives for movies are in question, and the industry bolts and the jobs are lost. Incentives for brownfield sites and historic buildings are in question and did the book cadillac shut down? Did any of the jobs created by previous brownfield tax credits get lost as a result? No. Those incentives were long term investments, the film credits aren't.

[iheartthed]

I'm not doubting that all of this spending has created jobs. It just seems that it has created nothing but temporary jobs and as such cannot be viewed as a long term investment. Why not spend tax money on creating more permanent jobs?

Look at what has happened recently... Incentives for movies are in question, and the industry bolts and the jobs are lost. Incentives for brownfield sites and historic buildings are in question and did the book cadillac shut down? Did any of the jobs created by previous brownfield tax credits get lost as a result? No. Those incentives were long term investments, the film credits aren't.

The Book Cadillac was rehabbed almost 5 years ago; it's not shutting down. But how many other Book Cadillac type of rehabs will we see in the future?

I think we agree that long term tax credits aren't a good policy. But these aren't meant to be long term... And when you've got an apparent winner why unnecessarily sacrifice it in order to make an ideological point? Why couldn't he just say "we'll offer this much money until we get our tax code straightened then we will renegotiate"? He could justify the temporary favortism by the amount of growth that the industry has shown over the past several years in the state.

How much tourism interest has been generated in Detroit because images of the city are being broadcasted around the globe? How many convention decisions have been tilted in the favor of Detroit after 111 million people saw the city displayed during a 2 minute Super Bowl ad? Again, I'm not saying that the governor is wrong in his ultimate goal, but the execution is a bit left to be desired.

ETA: I'm viewing this from outside the Detroit bubble. I live in New York. I notice when I see Detroit in media, and I'm seeing it a LOT. The people that I work with and socialize with who know I'm from Detroit always mention it when they see the city depicted somewhere. It's usually "wow, I didn't know Detroit had that" or "Detroit looks nice", "Detroit's a real city", etc. That kind of exposure is invaluable. The film industry is just another competitive advantage that Detroit and Michigan has right now that it could use to turn itself around. Chicago would never fumble away an advantage like that. And it's well documented that migration patterns, especially foreign immigration, tend to favor locations where immigrants are most familiar. And immigrants become most familiar with American cities through the media. Just sayin'...

[adamjab19]

I think we agree that long term tax credits aren't a good policy. But these aren't meant to be long term... And when you've got an apparent winner why unnecessarily sacrifice it in order to make an ideological point?

That's the point. If the tax incentives are not permanent what will make the industry permanent when the money is gone? Hollywood will not pay more to make shitty movies just because there is a local economy attached to it.

[iheartthed]

That's the point. If the tax incentives are not permanent what will make the industry permanent when the money is gone? Hollywood will not pay more to make shitty movies just because there is a local economy attached to it.

If you offer them the incentives and then work on bringing your corporate tax code into reality then the industry will feel more comfortable about setting permanent roots. Building studios, producing more TV shows locally... Hell, maybe even the next Oprah could be launched from a studio in Detroit.

[canuck]

If you offer them the incentives and then work on bringing your corporate tax code into reality then the industry will feel more comfortable about setting permanent roots. Building studios, producing more TV shows locally... Hell, maybe even the next Oprah could be launched from a studio in Detroit.

That is exactly the way to look at it. There are already big players who invest in studio spaces and
other infrastructure in metro Detroit. But the for Hollywood by Hollywood scenario isnt the end of story. There are plenty of capable would-be producers who can develop projects in the local economy. The difficult thing is to crack the distribution/financing of film. Tom Rosenberg who produced a couple of pictures in Montreal whose company is Lakeshore Entertainment had to run the company out of Los Angeles in spite of his obvious attachment to his native Chicago. Oprah Winfrey is definitely a great example of what can happen outside L.A. and New York. I think it's important to develop a robust industry from Hollywood product and alongside it, local producers would use the infrastructure and knowledge to initiate their own stuff. Whta happens is if you develop local technicians to a level where they manage as well as in other markets and let productions go, another cluster of know-how will migrate to where the action is. It is good for Detroit to regain the advantage it once had as a film center as a poster said once on another thread. When corporate films and advertisements were made in the area, that certainly was a strong presence in the economy.

http://www.raleighstudios.com/index.php?

option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=8http://www.cinepropictures.com/

[rb336]

I'm not doubting that all of this spending has created jobs. It just seems that it has created nothing but temporary jobs and as such cannot be viewed as a long term investment. Why not spend tax money on creating more permanent jobs?.

Look at that studio in Pontiac. that would have been permanent jobs. Surprised Snyder's bud Rakolta hasn't pitched a fit.

Ernst & Young, an independent, right-leaning firm [[based on political contributions) says for every buck we've invests through the tax credits, six have come back. 600% seems good to me

[detmsp]

Look at that studio in Pontiac. that would have been permanent jobs. Surprised Snyder's bud Rakolta hasn't pitched a fit.

Ernst & Young, an independent, right-leaning firm [[based on political contributions) says for every buck we've invests through the tax credits, six have come back. 600% seems good to me

What part of this are you missing? The incentives are gone and the work at a studio like this disappears. How is that permanent? These jobs only exist for as long as the state is paying 40% of the salaries!

[canuck]

What part of this are you missing? The incentives are gone and the work at a studio like this disappears. How is that permanent? These jobs only exist for as long as the state is paying 40% of the salaries!

What makes you think other industries are permanent fixtures, havent you noticed the disappearance of mainline industries in Michigan in the past little while? The film business is fickle and it creates millionaires on a whim. That is for sure. I work in film in Canada and can tell you that the rehabs of old office buildings into hotels or the brand new luxury hotels were helped along by a robust film industry in the nineties and early 2000's. Restaurants and Casinos benefit from it and there is a definite vibe when film happens in your city. The labor intensiveness is a plus for Michigan. Film Studios are worth building because the cost of leasing on a weekly basis is astronomical but worthwhile for film productions. So when a large studio half to a million sq ft is built and leased for a number of films during the first three years, the investment is already pretty much covered. So the tax return has to do with recouping top heavy costs by production companies. This is called below-the-line costs. The "talent" or "A-list actors" are considered above-the-line costs. So there are two things to ponder in the cost of a medium to big budget movie. That is why the labor intensive film industry can also benefit Michigan by generating local productions due to increased expertise and available infrastructure and rental equipment. Film schools gain more instructors, post-production companies develop from better budgets, and actors, scriptwriters who otherwise would move to one of the coasts can live and contribute to Michigan. California gives incentives too, dont kid yourself.