Failed plans to build a domed stadium on the riverfront

DetroitDad · March-04-11, 11:37 PM

Where's the parking lot?

**schulzte** · March-04-11, 11:56 PM

Two stadiums have hosted three major league teams at the same time. The first was the Kingdome in Seattle [[Seahawks, Mariners, and Supersonics). The second was the Metrodome in Minneapolis [[Vikings, Twins, and Timberwolves). Total coincidence, but these two stadiums probably had the two most serious roof failures of all the domed stadiums.

Thank goodness this was never built and the Tigers stayed on the corner 25 more years. If this dome had been built, both the Tigers and Lions would have been regretting it 20 years later. The Silverdome may have been in Pontiac, but at least it was a proper football stadium, it was actually an underrated NFL venue. The Pistons would have never moved in to a building like the proposed dome. In 1972 the NBA was an afterthought; Cobo Arena was plenty big at the time for the "crowds" the Pistons were attracting.

http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

**R8RBOB** · March-05-11, 12:36 AM

Originally Posted by schulzte

Two stadiums have hosted three major league teams at the same time. The first was the Kingdome in Seattle [[Seahawks, Mariners, and Supersonics). The second was the Metrodome in Minneapolis [[Vikings, Twins, and Timberwolves). Total coincidence, but these two stadiums probably had the two most serious roof failures of all the domed stadiums.

Thank goodness this was never built and the Tigers stayed on the corner 25 more years. If this dome had been built, both the Tigers and Lions would have been regretting it 20 years later. The Silverdome may have been in Pontiac, but at least it was a proper football stadium, it was actually an underrated NFL venue. The Pistons would have never moved in to a building like the proposed dome. In 1972 the NBA was an afterthought; Cobo Arena was plenty big at the time for the "crowds" the Pistons were attracting.

http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

See this is why I was asking what was the opinion of the day in regards to this stadium being built. In 1972, the Pistons was still owned by Fred Zollner and they had been in the arena for 11 years at that point. There would be no need to move to said domed stadium. The Red Wings was ready to leave Olympia but there no push to build an new arena since Cobo Arena was built in 1950 and moving them to the domed stadium would have never worked. As for the Tigers, no one was ready to see them move from Michigan and Trumbull so I can see why the stadium died.

**schulzte** · March-05-11, 08:00 AM

A little more about the 70's stadium situation in Detroit.

This domed stadium proposal was likely a response to the City of Pontiac's proposed stadium in 1968 for both the Lions and Tigers. The City of Detroit proposed this stadium to keep the Tigers and Lions downtown, placed the proposal on the ballot for a bond sale, and it failed. Most owners would have packed up and left, but Mr. Fetzer said that the Tigers belonged to the inner city of Detroit, and that he wouldn't move them to Pontiac. So the Lions moved to the Silverdome and the Tigers stayed at the corner, but that Silverdome location was originally meant for a multipurpose stadium. Mr. Fetzer then sold Tiger Stadium to the city of Detroit for $1 in 1977, and the city performed a multi-million dollar renovation of the stadium. The city installed new seats, lights, a new scoreboard, and other improvements.

Pontiac later pushed very hard to build a new arena for the Red Wings, and they were very close to moving there. Then the city struck a last-minute sweetheart deal to build Joe Louis Arena, charged virtually no rent, and gave the Red Wings management control of Cobo Arena as well. I've always wondered if that sweetheart deal with the Red Wings had anything to do with the Pistons moving in 1978, because it never made sense to me why they decided to moved to the Silverdome rather than Joe Louis Arena. I also wonder if the pressure to get Joe Louis Arena designed quickly and built to keep the Wings from moving led to some of the design deficiencies, like the lack of an original Press Box and poor street access.

http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

**R8RBOB** · March-05-11, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by schulzte

A little more about the 70's stadium situation in Detroit.

This domed stadium proposal was likely a response to the City of Pontiac's proposed stadium in 1968 for both the Lions and Tigers. The City of Detroit proposed this stadium to keep the Tigers and Lions downtown, placed the proposal on the ballot for a bond sale, and it failed. Most owners would have packed up and left, but Mr. Fetzer said that the Tigers belonged to the inner city of Detroit, and that he wouldn't move them to Pontiac. So the Lions moved to the Silverdome and the Tigers stayed at the corner, but that Silverdome location was originally meant for a multipurpose stadium. Mr. Fetzer then sold Tiger Stadium to the city of Detroit for $1 in 1977, and the city performed a multi-million dollar renovation of the stadium. The city installed new seats, lights, a new scoreboard, and other improvements.

Pontiac later pushed very hard to build a new arena for the Red Wings, and they were very close to moving there. Then the city struck a last-minute sweetheart deal to build Joe Louis Arena, charged virtually no rent, and gave the Red Wings management control of Cobo Arena as well. I've always wondered if that sweetheart deal with the Red Wings had anything to do with the Pistons moving in 1978, because it never made sense to me why they decided to moved to the Silverdome rather than Joe Louis Arena. I also wonder if the pressure to get Joe Louis Arena designed quickly and built to keep the Wings from moving led to some of the design deficiencies, like the lack of an original Press Box and poor street access.

http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

Thanks for the info. It amazes me that the city of Pontiac was so aggressive to develop an identify by acquiring Detroit's sport franchises. I wish I had a time machine to bring the leaders of Pontiac/Oakland County circa 1968 to present time 2011 to see the fruits of their hard labor.

As for moving the franchises, there was only one reason why they wanted the franchises in the suburbs: Whites no longer wanted to travel to Detroit to watch their favorite team. Fetzer might had a change of heart but he heard the whispers that Whites would no longer travel to Detroit to watch the Tigers [[not true, of course) and it would be better to have the team in the burbs.

Bruce Norris heard the same whispers. Whites no longer felt safe on Grand River and McGraw and the push to move the Wings to Pontiac began. Had Coleman Young not given Norris JLA and Cobo Arena, the Wings too would have been in Pontiac playing in front of suburbanites no longer having to drive to Detroit.

What about the Pistons? There was no question that Bill Davidson heard the talk. Whites were the season-ticket holders and they did not want to come to Detroit to watch the sorry-ass Pistons. In fact, they didn't want to watch their sorry-asses period. The Pistons sucked and they sucked pre-Magic and Bird. I can imagine that Coleman Young didn't work very hard to keep them in Cobo. Had the move were to occurred in the Magic-Bird-Jordan period in the mid-80's, Detroit would have fought tooth and nail to keep them.

Joe Louis Arena broke ground in 1977 which tells me that the Pistons had already given notice that they were leaving Detroit for Pontiac. The sweetheart deal that Norris got was for him because the Pistons had already announced that they were leaving and Young didn't want a third franchise fleeing Detroit. Funny that the city of Pontiac was willing to build a new arena for the Red Wings yet they had no problem sticking the Pistons in the cavernous Silverdome and keeping them there and there was never any talk about building an arena for them. Go figure.

**DetroitPlanner** · March-05-11, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gistok

Did you mean Saarinen??

thats what I meant. I knew I was spelling it wrong, but figured no one would know he difference!

Originally it was flat-topped and was for the Olympics bid.

**Whitehouse** · March-05-11, 12:05 PM

If you flip one page you'll end up with this.

In 1987, the White Sox were ready to replace their ancient home, Comiskey Park. As a protest to the unimaginative plans floated by the ballclub, Chicago architect Philip Bess took it upon himself to conceive an alternative. Armour Field, a scaled-down stadium in the fashion of Wrigley Field and Fenway Park, was designed "to illustrate that a compact-footprint neighborhood ballpark could provide fan comforts and generate industry standard revenues."

In retrospect Philip Bess could be seen as a visionairy. He in effect more or less invented the retro-ballpark concept, although I think giving him sole credit would be too much. I expect other architect also having the same ideas back in those days.

**schulzte** · March-05-11, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Thanks for the info. It amazes me that the city of Pontiac was so aggressive to develop an identify by acquiring Detroit's sport franchises. I wish I had a time machine to bring the leaders of Pontiac/Oakland County circa 1968 to present time 2011 to see the fruits of their hard labor.

As for moving the franchises, there was only one reason why they wanted the franchises in the suburbs: Whites no longer wanted to travel to Detroit to watch their favorite team. Fetzer might had a change of heart but he heard the whispers that Whites would no longer travel to Detroit to watch the Tigers [[not true, of course) and it would be better to have the team in the burbs.

Bruce Norris heard the same whispers. Whites no longer felt safe on Grand River and McGraw and the push to move the Wings to Pontiac began. Had Coleman Young not given Norris JLA and Cobo Arena, the Wings too would have been in Pontiac playing in front of suburbanites no longer having to drive to Detroit.

What about the Pistons? There was no question that Bill Davidson heard the talk. Whites were the season-ticket holders and they did not want to come to Detroit to watch the sorry-ass Pistons. In fact, they didn't want to watch their sorry-asses period. The Pistons sucked and they sucked pre-Magic and Bird. I can imagine that Coleman Young didn't work very hard to keep them in Cobo. Had the move were to occurred in the Magic-Bird-Jordan period in the mid-80's, Detroit would have fought tooth and nail to keep them.

Joe Louis Arena broke ground in 1977 which tells me that the Pistons had already given notice that they were leaving Detroit for Pontiac. The sweetheart deal that Norris got was for him because the Pistons had already announced that they were leaving and Young didn't want a third franchise fleeing Detroit. Funny that the city of Pontiac was willing to build a new arena for the Red Wings yet they had no problem sticking the Pistons in the cavernous Silverdome and keeping them there and there was never any talk about building an arena for them. Go figure.

I don't think anybody really cared where the Pistons went at the time. The NBA had far less interest than the NHL, and they certainly weren't worth a municipality building a new arena. The last season at Cobo, the Pistons averaged 5,448 a game. You're not building a new arena for that. The Pistons didn't exactly take off immediately after moving to Pontiac either. The year the Pistons moved to the Silverdome, they averaged 9,510 a game. Still not great, but quite an improvement. Attendance dwindled again the next two years back to that 6-8,000 level. The Pistons didn't exceed 10,000 a game in attendance until 1982-83, but by their last season at the Silverdome they averaged 26,012 per game. Cobo's location wasn't an asset for the Pistons, but winning helps too! Joe Louis Arena used to be pretty empty too until the team started winning in the late '80's, but the downtown location never kept fans away.
http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

**jackie5275** · March-05-11, 01:40 PM

This is quite an interesting thread. Like the OP, I'm too young to know about a proposed domed stadium in 1972. However, it seems to me like that was the latest craze in the 70s for sports stadiums. I'm glad it never got built. I think a domed stadium just doesn't capture how baseball is supposed to be played. I'm glad MLB got away from this indoor trend.

**jackie5275** · March-05-11, 01:48 PM

Originally Posted by schulzte

I don't think anybody really cared where the Pistons went at the time... The last season at Cobo, the Pistons averaged 5,448 a game. ... Attendance dwindled again the next two years back to that 6-8,000 level. The Pistons didn't exceed 10,000 a game in attendance until 1982-83...

I remember in the early-mid 80s, they were practically giving away tickets. Big Boy restaurants, their biggest sponsor at the time, had stacks of 2 for 1 ticket coupons in all their restaurants sitting on the cash register counters. My brother & I saw many a Pistons Silverdome game by purchasing one 2nd deck ticket for $9 with those coupons. It ended up costing us only $4.50 each for our seats. By the 2nd qtr we moved down to empty seats in the 1st deck. That was pretty cheap entertainment.

**1KielsonDrive** · March-05-11, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

Unfortunately, the fault along Eight Mile is non-seismic...

I
Incorrect Nerd. The fault along 8 Mile IS seismic. Just not in the geologic sense.

**1KielsonDrive** · March-05-11, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I arrived in California in 2000 and I remember driving down the Embarcadero towards Fisherman's Wharf. I can only imagine how ugly that area looked having an double-decker freeway along the Embarcadero. If anyone watches Charmed, they were always showing wide-shots of SF and you would see the old double-decker.

I departed SF in 2000. Their vision was just coming together with the new trolley lines, stadium and gardens at the foot of Market. Amazing to watch how a city can transform itself. Even one as beautiful and dynamic as SF.

**1KielsonDrive** · March-05-11, 02:10 PM

The last [[and probably the only) Pistons game I attended was at the Silverdome. No comment on the Silverdome's ''underatedness', but it was a terrible place to see a sporting event. I also attended a Cherry Bowl game there. Sitting in the upper deck was like riding in a hot air balloon.

**One Shot** · March-05-11, 02:47 PM

Would have went good with the proposed Ren Cen plan with all the cylinders around the base.

**R8RBOB** · March-05-11, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by jackie5275

This is quite an interesting thread. Like the OP, I'm too young to know about a proposed domed stadium in 1972. However, it seems to me like that was the latest craze in the 70s for sports stadiums. I'm glad it never got built. I think a domed stadium just doesn't capture how baseball is supposed to be played. I'm glad MLB got away from this indoor trend.

We are in the same boat. I grew up in the 70's knowing only Tiger Stadium. I wasn't old enough to understand that the owner wanted to leave the Corner. Having both the Tigers and Lions playing in a domed stadium on the riverfront would have been an awful idea. For the record, I have always hated domed stadiums. Baseball and football are meant to be played outside and on grass. Now I can understand a place like Houston needing a dome because their weather in the summer is unbearable but they started the trend to build domed stadiums.

Funny thing about Ford Field is that the Lions wanted to return to their roots and play outdoors but Archer seeing that Ford Field could used all year round pushed have the roof included.

**R8RBOB** · March-05-11, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by schulzte

I don't think anybody really cared where the Pistons went at the time. The NBA had far less interest than the NHL, and they certainly weren't worth a municipality building a new arena. The last season at Cobo, the Pistons averaged 5,448 a game. You're not building a new arena for that. The Pistons didn't exactly take off immediately after moving to Pontiac either. The year the Pistons moved to the Silverdome, they averaged 9,510 a game. Still not great, but quite an improvement. Attendance dwindled again the next two years back to that 6-8,000 level. The Pistons didn't exceed 10,000 a game in attendance until 1982-83, but by their last season at the Silverdome they averaged 26,012 per game. Cobo's location wasn't an asset for the Pistons, but winning helps too! Joe Louis Arena used to be pretty empty too until the team started winning in the late '80's, but the downtown location never kept fans away.
http://www.newolympia.blogspot.com

Yes, the Pistons of the 70's in particular the late 70's were god awful. I remember back in the day, the Pistons had this ridiculous jingle as their intro on Channel 50 and you just knew that it was another Pistons lost when you heard that damn jingle.

Based on the numbers you posted, I can see why the Detroit didn't go out of their way to keep the Pistons in town though I believe that Bill Davidson wanted out of Detroit. [[more on that in a sec) The Pistons were always the step-child in Detroit sports. They were the last to arrive in Detroit and they were always mediocre so watching them go to Pontiac didn't faze Detroit at that time. They sucked and that was that.

**Gistok** · March-05-11, 06:05 PM

I do believe that having Ford Field include a roof was a wise decision. The football season is a very fickle time around here weather wise. Ever been to Soldier Field during a snowy football game with the wind in your face... yuck!

**R8RBOB** · March-05-11, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gistok

I do believe that having Ford Field include a roof was a wise decision. The football season is a very fickle time around here weather wise. Ever been to Soldier Field during a snowy football game with the wind in your face... yuck!

No, I haven't had the misfortune of being in a snowy football game but I have been in rainy football games in Oakland. Will that do?

Since Detroit was already getting the open-air Comerica Park, Archer made the right decision to put a roof on Ford Field. Besides, that decision alone put the final nail in the Silverdome's coffin.