Madison, Wisconson

[ghettopalmetto]

Wow, I didn't even know that South Carolina slave holders voted Republican before the Civil War. Was this a thread about the Republican Party vs. the Democratic Party or what is going on in Madison where a $3.6B two year projected budget deficit has to be erased? Got any ideas how to do that that don't involve southern slavery?

My comments are directly relevant to Wisconsin. Scott Walker decided to give massive handouts to corporations [[i.e. his campaign contributors). Now he's facing a massive deficit and seeking to balance the budget on the backs of public servants. Tell me that's not classism, and I have a stockade you might find comfortable.

And then there's this, which is no doubt a pressing issue:
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...on-Immigration

[Detroitnerd]

Well here's a hint for you fella, your partisan reply in #17 doesn't match your professed bi-partisan philosophy [["BOTH parties... are ruining this country") in #23. Did you get relieved of some of your intelligence somewhere along the way?

Both parties are pursuing Reaganomics, fool. Pursuing it right down the drain...

[1KielsonDrive]

Aww, what's troubling you bunky, somebody take a piece of your cookie?

The reality is that two solid years of Progressives relentlessly enacting their agenda and driving the budget deficits to historic highs has relieved millions of people of their good humor and motivated them to become politically involved for the first time in their lives.

Shows your ability to objectively recognize where the deficits came from. And I'm not entirely blaming the republicrats, but there was a budget surplus when Clinton gave way to Bush2. Let's see here - invade Iraq, it's only gonna cost a couple billion and oil revenues will pay the costs. AND, keep those costs off the regular books so they will be handed down to successive administrations and generations. How much has Iraq and Afghanistan cost so far? Do we have a clue? Tax breaks for the top 4 or 5 per cent of the population [[during wartime, nonetheless) amounting to a trillion dollars, by reckoning of the republicrats themselves. Medicare Part whatever, a quarter to a half billion dollar give away to medical and pharmaceutical corporations, etc, etc, etc. The original bailout [[save our corporations or the world is going down the toilet, which it has anyway) was enacted by the Bush2 regime at the 11th hour of their administration, that is, prior to NO!bama taking over promising 'Change You Can Believe In'. Change what???? Now, as you see, I don't completely blame the republicrats because their evil step sisters - the demicans, have and are still carrying a lot of water for them. All this partisan fighting serves only one master and one purpose: to enrich the weathiest and fund their court [[congress) to do their bidding.

[oladub]

My comments are directly relevant to Wisconsin. Scott Walker decided to give massive handouts to corporations [[i.e. his campaign contributors). Now he's facing a massive deficit and seeking to balance the budget on the backs of public servants. Tell me that's not classism, and I have a stockade you might find comfortable.
[/URL]

Oh, I thought you were talking about slavery, 'Lazy White Men", and the Republican Party which opposed slavery or some such muddle. I agree that Scott Walker should not have cut corporate taxes $140M to lure in jobs but the Wisconsin projected two year deficit is $3.6B which accrued during the past Democrat administration in Wisconsin. $3.6B, may I remind you, is 28x as much as $140M.

I

[old guy]

Here's a good one from Fox. Showing how violent the protests are getting in Madison. If you notice in the right side of the video, there are palm trees. Odd for Wisconsin.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RClJ6vK9x_4

[Mikeg]

Both parties are pursuing Reaganomics, fool. Pursuing it right down the drain...

I'm no fool. I'm smart enough not only to stifle the urge to respond with similar name-calling but to also see the recent phenomenon whereby the response to any criticism of the Democrats or President Obama and his administration is to excuse it away with "both parties do it". Until very recently all I've read here is "it's Bush's fault" or "those Repugs are at it again". At least I don't have to look at that "Republicans = shit for brains...." thread title any more.

[oldredfordette]

The Democrats are lame brained weaklings. Personally, Obama has lost me as a voter. I haven't voted for a Levin, or Granholm, or ScabMeNow, they suck. However. The Republican party, the way it is structured right now, with the members and elected officials of the moment, is evil and greedy. I'm sorry if you don't like that fact, but a fact it is.

[ghettopalmetto]

Oh, I thought you were talking about slavery, 'Lazy White Men", and the Republican Party which opposed slavery or some such muddle.

If you don't think that the modern Republican Party doesn't want to enslave us peons for their own financial benefit, then you're seriously mistaken. The only thing they've done to benefit the middle and working class in the past 15 years was to enact Clinton's tax cut.

Aside from that, it's been giveaways to corporations, tax cuts for the wealthy, impeding health insurance reform, exporting of jobs overseas, near-total deregulation of the financial sector, destruction of our natural environment, dependency on oil at the expense of our military, and fear tactics to pit us against each other to keep us all in line--how's that "defense" of marriage going, anyway? The rest of us get a dumbed-down system of multiple-guess education, with the option to purchase whatever Chinese crap we want at Walmart.

Scott Walker is just enacting the next step toward putting us all in shackles. Do you think that candy ass knows what it's like to work a real job? Of course not--he's been living off the government tit his entire adult life! He knows that if we all took up pitchforks, his ass would be one of the first tied to a stake. Which is why he uses the time-honored GOP tactic of the Middle Class Mindfuck, first perfected by Richard Nixon in his "Southern Strategy".

REAGAN would be unelectable in the current GOP, never mind Lincoln.

[oladub]

GP, I think the leadership of both the Republican and Democratic Party both take their marching orders from the contributors and opensecrets.com just about proves that.

I am, by the way, opposed to Walker's unnecessary and unconstitutional attacks on collective bargaining. However he has to address the $3.6B projected deficit left over by the Illinois delegation. I would hope that he backs off on the collective bargaining stance and announces that there will instead be an across the board $3.6B budget cut unless the teachers and health care workers would offer other government programs up for sacrifice to reduce the pain for education and health care. So far you haven't presented any ideas of what new taxes or budget cuts will be necessary to prevent laying off large numbers of teachers. If every couple in Wisconsin kicked in an extra $800, then the status quo could go on until 2012 but that is going to be a hard sell. You could march around the Capitol repeating "shame, shame, shame" but that won't keep the lights on either.

Wisconsin Culture : Beer : Best Label

[ghettopalmetto]

Oladub, I'm with ya. Renegotiating union contracts is not off the table--the unions have already agreed to make concessions on wages and benefits. It's hard to negotiate, though, when one party refuses to budge on his union-busting stance. Walker's agenda [[like Kasich in Ohio) has become quite clear--this is NOT about balancing the budget, as much as it is creating a northern version of Mississippi, where only the plantation owners [[Walker) prosper.

One way to balance a budget is to increase employment and incomes [[and thus tax revenues on those incomes and the resulting expenditures). Walker flat-out turned down $800 million that would have created jobs to build the Madison-Milwaukee rail line--never mind the new development that would have resulted. That's squarely on his shoulders.

If you're balancing your own checkbook, you can only cut so many expenditures before you're making cuts into your food and housing budget. At some point, you have to buy a new suit and go on some job interviews to try to boost your income.

[Big Dog]

What happened to the NLRB?

[oldredfordette]

George W. Bush.

[oladub]

GP, That was Governor Doyle [[D) who turned the RR money back to the President while Walker was still the Governor Elect. Gov. Walker never had a chance to renegotiate the RR money and he was on record as supporting the improvement of the line between Milwaukee and Chicago. I don't know if Obama and Walker could or would have worked out something else or not but Doyle made sure that wasn't a possibility. That was not $800M that would have paid off any part of the $3.6B deficit anyway. Doyle's baby was to connect Madison and Milwaukee instead of improving the much more populated Milwaukee-Chicago route. Doyle made a deal with a Spanish train company and got a nice Spanish vacation out of it. The Spanish Doyle train would have only saved 15 minutes of commute time not including the trips downtown or any future security procedures.

Wisconsin cuisine : Meat : Brats

[ghettopalmetto]

GP, That was Governor Doyle [[D) who turned the RR money back to the President while Walker was still the Governor Elect. Gov. Walker never had a chance to renegotiate the RR money and he was on record as supporting the improvement of the line between Milwaukee and Chicago. I don't know if Obama and Walker could or would have worked out something else or not but Doyle made sure that wasn't a possibility. That was not $800M that would have paid off any part of the $3.6B deficit anyway. Doyle's baby was to connect Madison and Milwaukee instead of improving the much more populated Milwaukee-Chicago route. Doyle made a deal with a Spanish train company and got a nice Spanish vacation out of it. The Spanish Doyle train would have only saved 15 minutes of commute time not including the trips downtown or any future security procedures.

Wisconsin cuisine : Meat : Brats

I think you need to do some serious fact-checking on this post, Oladub.


U.S. NEWS
NOVEMBER 8, 2010, 7:12 P.M. ET
Funding for Wisconsin Rail Project in Jeopardy, LaHood Warns

After congratulating Mr. Walker, a Republican who defeated Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett last week, Mr. LaHood noted in a letter sent Monday the "difference of opinion about the value of a Midwest high-speed rail network."

Mr. Walker, currently Milwaukee County Executive, had made opposing the train, which he considered too expensive, a cornerstone of his campaign. He has said he would like Congress to allow him to use the federal money to repair state highways instead. It isn't yet clear whether the Republican takeover of the U.S. House of Representatives will help Mr. Walker's cause.

The administration of outgoing Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, a Democrat who supported the passenger-train line, suspended the project Thursday, citing the uncertainty that accompanied Mr. Walker's victory.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...069782598.html

[Detroitnerd]

I'm no fool. I'm smart enough not only to stifle the urge to respond with similar name-calling but to also see the recent phenomenon whereby the response to any criticism of the Democrats or President Obama and his administration is to excuse it away with "both parties do it". Until very recently all I've read here is "it's Bush's fault" or "those Repugs are at it again". At least I don't have to look at that "Republicans = shit for brains...." thread title any more.

..........

[oladub]

GP, exactly what I said. Your quote was, "Walker flat-out turned down $800 million that would have created jobs to build the Madison-Milwaukee rail line--never mind the new development that would have resulted. That's squarely on his shoulders" [[post 35). I pointed out that, "That was Governor Doyle [[D) who turned the RR money back to the President while Walker was still the Governor Elect. Gov. Walker never had a chance to renegotiate the RR money and he was on record as supporting the improvement of the line between Milwaukee and Chicago." [[post 38). Your link confirms that, "Jim Doyle, a Democrat who supported the passenger-train line, suspended the project Thursday" As I said, Walker never had a chance to attempt to renegotiate the deal. Thank you for making my point in big letters. Doyle was having a hissy fit about the election results and took away his toys. It was Doyle's call. Walker could not turn down the money while still not in office.

[ghettopalmetto]

As I said, Walker never had a chance to attempt to renegotiate the deal. Thank you for making my point in big letters. Doyle was having a hissy fit about the election results and took away his toys. It was Doyle's call. Walker could not turn down the money while still not in office.

No, but Walker sure as hell made refusal of the high speed rail money the central plank of his campaign.

There was no such thing as the possibility of "negotiation". Those funds were awarded through competitive grants and were earmarked solely for passenger rail projects. Do you think the Department of Transportation is going to award rail money to Wisconsin, then turn around and allow it to be used for highway projects, just because Wisconsin can't get its financial shit together? Hell no, not when there are other states [[like California, Illinois, North Carolina, New York), that competed for those rail dollars in earnest.

The correspondence between Ray LaHood, outgoing Ohio Gov. Ted Strickland, and then-Governor Elect John Kasich makes this very clear. Strickland kept the 3C project going under his administration. Kasich tried to get Ohio's $400 million in rail dolllars reappropriated for roads. LaHood repealed the money.

Walker never had to "turn down" the money. He made it clear that the Madison-Milwaukee rail project wasn't going to happen under his administration. Ray LaHood exercised his duty to use the funds for their intended purpose. Technically, there was no "turning down" on the part of Wisconsin. That money was repealed by USDOT, but it was done so knowing that Walker [[and Kasich) never intended to act in good faith.

[oladub]

Cutting spending was the central plank of Walker's campaign; not wanting to pursue Doyle's demographically preposterous pet project was but a sidebar. Before, you were claiming that, "Walker flat-out turned down $800 million". I agree with your more recent reappraisal,Walker never had to "turn down" the money". Walker had previously supported the expansion of the more populated Milwaukee-Chicago corridor however. Whether or not Obama's DOT would have gone along with that, I don't know. That's what negotiation would have been about if Doyle had allowed the process to go on under Walker. I doubt the Obama administration would have negotiated with a Republican but we will never know.

More news affecting Walker though:
The tide is against Wisconsin Unionists in support of Wisconsin taxpayers and fiscal responsibility.

Another poll recently showed that Wisconsinites were slightly in favor of collective bargaining and against Walker on that point. If Walker had sense, he would concentrate his efforts on these other measures and abandon his attack on collective bargaining.

NIce heartwarming video of protesters with Scottish music to warm the hearts of everyone supporting collective bargaining who isn't necessarily serious about other budget issues.

[ghettopalmetto]

Cutting spending was the central plank of Walker's campaign; not wanting to pursue Doyle's demographically preposterous pet project was but a sidebar.

Where do Walker's business tax cuts fit into the picture? Isn't that an INCREASE in spending?

And he sure as shit was ready to use $810 million of federal money for highway work, but decided THE EXACT SAME SUM was "unaffordable" if it had to be used for rail. Explain disconnect.

Fiscal conservative, my ass. This guy has never had a real job. He's an insult to working people everywhere.

[Danny]

Recall Gov. Walker NOW.

[oladub]

ghettopalmetto;Where do Walker's business tax cuts fit into the picture? Isn't that an INCREASE in spending?

I addressed that in post 29. Please reread.

And he sure as shit was ready to use $810 million of federal money for highway work, but decided THE EXACT SAME SUM was "unaffordable" if it had to be used for rail. Explain disconnect.

No need to. That was his preference as the State is behind on road and infrastructure projects. Obama's DOT probably wouldn't gave gone along with that but it was Gov. Doyle who turned the money over to the Obama DOT before Walker became Governor as your link succinctly pointed out. Also, the train was a boondoggle clipping 15 minutes off the commute time and only of trips downtown to terminals and possible security delays were not considered. Financially, jobs provided by the 8 trains daily would be offset by job losses at Badger BUs which runs 11 buses daily. There would have been some temporary construction jobs though although the 13000 construction jobs seems a bit high unless Chinese coolies were going to do the work by hand. The 'unaffordability ' had to do with running it, not accepting federal money.

Fiscal conservative, my ass. This guy has never had a real job. He's an insult to working people everywhere.

Yeah, yeah, just like Obama.

[old guy]

I'm impressed with several things in his budget proposal. Not really.

Cutting aid to technical colleges by 30%, or $72 million.
End the recycling program in the state.
Provide $225 million to rebuilding the Zoo Interchange in Milwaukee.
Cut aid to schools by $900 million.
Cut $500 million from Medicaid.
Cut $250 million from the U.W. and increase tuition fees by over 20%.
Create a 100% exclusion from capital gains taxes for those who invest in Wisconsin-based businesses.
Eliminate the requirement that schools be open 180 days a year.

[ghettopalmetto]

Yeah, and let's see how long it takes the best of Wisconsin's government employees to abandon their posts for the private sector. Then everyone will bitch that government services suck, the quality of education will deteriorate, and those with means and skills will take their talents elsewhere. Welcome to the death spiral, Wisconsin.

But hey, at least Scott Walker was able to balance the budget for 2 years while still giving tax breaks to his buddies!

True fiscal conservatism considers that in some instances, you may actually have to take the unpopular step of raising fees or taxes, or at the very least, NOT CUT THEM in the face of a fiscal crisis. A blind monkey could make budget cuts with a hacksaw irrespective of the long-term consequences. Scott Walker couldn't balance a budget if you laid it flat on the ground.

[oladub]

A judge has ordered that a broader selection of the public be allowed into the Wisconsin Capitol Building and has also ordered the police to arrest those who don't leave tonight. One of the reasons cited was that .22 bullets were found scattered around outside although for all we know the police or Walker people could have scattered them there to get such a ruling. So far, $7.5M dollars of damages and clean up costs have been caused by the demonstrators.

The Great Dane [[as in Dane County)

[partyhardy]

A judge has ordered that a broader selection of the public be allowed into the Wisconsin Capitol Building and has also ordered the police to arrest those who don't leave tonight. One of the reasons cited was that .22 bullets were found scattered around outside although for all we know the police or Walker people could have scattered them there to get such a ruling. So far, $7.5M dollars of damages and clean up costs have been caused by the demonstrators.

The Great Dane [[as in Dane County)

I'm sorry...$7.5 million sounds like a bullshit number to clean up painter's tape off of marble. Something is fishy here...[[not to say you're making it up...I read the article...just seems a little high, heck I'll clean it up for $2 million!)

Article:
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/1...age=2#comments