Whew, what's going on in Macomb county?

**Gistok** · May-15-09, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by Fury13

Gistok, say what you want, but Macomb County is the home of the Mafia in metro Detroit. All the connected guys live in Clinton, Washington, and Shelby townships. They have huge influence behind the scenes and have ties [[the friends/family plan) to judges and the court system there.

Fury13... I don't disagree with your comments about the Mafia... the migration of Italian-Americans has mainly gone from the east side of Detroit into Macomb County... just like the Germans and Belgians.

But anywhere a Mafia related trial happens... one can understand corruption rearing its' ugly head. Macomb County has no monopoly on that.

As for my comment about 8 Mile... the thing is that any stranger crossing that boundary has no clue that he/she has left Detroit... that was my point... it's not a red herring [[I do know my 43 logic fallacies).

My architecture comment was geared towards Mackinaw... whom I hold in high regard... but disagree with on this one point... where you live has no impact on how you feel about architecture or on how it affects your daily life... zippo. I'm sure that the people who live in the suburbs of Rome have just as much appreciation for the arts as those who live within the Eternal City... ditto for Detroit [[although "we ain't Rome!").

**Detroit Stylin** · May-15-09, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

It appears that Redetroit is confusing black adn white culture when it is less a culture of color and more a culture of socioeconomics.

Speaking of the wonderous old times of Detroit you also choose to ignore the loss of population, loss of tax base, State and Federal laws that have historically hurt inner cities and the horrible racial segegration in SE Michigan.

To claim it is white culture vs. black culture is about as racist as it can get but nothing less than I expect from people in SE Michigan.

Just an appalling justification that is devoid of facts, history and reality.

THANK YOU jt1 I was wondering when he was going to get it....

**Fury13** · May-15-09, 04:04 PM

"The good old days" in Detroit weren't good for everybody, that's for sure.

Retroit · May-15-09, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by jt1

It appears that Redetroit is confusing black adn white culture when it is less a culture of color and more a culture of socioeconomics.

You do realize that socioeconomics involves both social and economic factors?

**jt1** · May-15-09, 04:48 PM

Yes I do. So please describe how this supports your claims of 'black culture' and 'white culture'

Social factors are influenced by who you associate with, environment that you grow up in, etc. Color is not the driving factor. It's unfortunate that you don't realize this.

So, for clarification let me ask a question: Why are you implying that 'black culture' is the same as the impoverished culture in the city? Would 'black culture' be represented by the many affluent black communities throughout the rest of the country. It appears to me that your implication is that impoverished culture is black culture and those that are black but not part of that culture are aspiring to live in a white culture.

Your implications say a whole lot. It may not be obvious to you but I can assure you that it is obvious to others.

Retroit · May-15-09, 07:04 PM

I wasn't trying to imply that all black cultures are impoverished, nor that all impoverished cultures are black, but simply that Detroit is [[mostly) an impoverished black culture, and that the suburbs are [[mostly) non-impoverished white cultures, and that the reason that blacks are choosing to move out of Detroit and into the suburbs is because they prefer the culture of the suburbs more than the culture of Detroit.

I think it would be beneficial if you share with us where the "many affluent black communities throughout the rest of the country" are located, and explain for us how their black culture differs from the black culture in Detroit, if at all. Thank you.

Sludgedaddy · May-15-09, 07:30 PM

...and i jus' thought that those skinny white kids with their pants fallin' off their ass were jus' stylin' out there in Macomb.

**jt1** · May-15-09, 07:46 PM

So redetroit you have backtracked and decided you are now speaking only of black culture in Detroit, not black culture in general. Quite an oversight for you not to mention that in previous posts.

As for your question to me I think that you are using that as a lame attempt to deter attention from your original claims that black people leaving the city were looking to leave black culture and move into white culture. Sorry you were too obvious in what you were attempting to subtlely say.

Would it be fair of me to claim that the impoverished in Appalachia represent white culture? Why not? To what degree are you narrowing your discussion of a specific'culture'? Are people that leave inner rings suburbs to walthier suburbs trying to escape from 'white culture' to 'whiter culture'?

How about a little clarification before you change your justification again.

Retroit · May-15-09, 08:10 PM

jt1, I have no sinister intentions of obfuscating anything I have said. We can go state by state and country by country and discuss every black and white culture around the world, but I was just trying to address the points made in the article quoted in the initial post of this thread. I'm not sure how I could have been any more explicit that I was speaking of Detroit only, other than to constantly repeat it in every sentence.

If you would like to disagree with my assertions and show how the culture generally found in white suburbia is in any way inferior to the culture generally found in black Detroit, I am open to discussing that.

Now, to answer your questions specifically. White Appalachian culture is not representative of white suburban Detroit culture. White Appalachians are not moving into black Appalachia, or vise versa. You are trying to make comparisons where there are so few similarities that a comparison can not be made.

As for whites moving from inner ring to outer ring, they are not moving to escape from anything. They are moving because the population is [[or was) expanding and the inner ring suburbs were built up. Detroit, on the hand has a surplus of vacant homes and vacant lots on which to build, but no one wants to live there.

**jt1** · May-15-09, 09:51 PM

Many inner rings suburbs are losing population and the exodus is moving further out. That little fact doesn't coorelate to your claim.

You appear to prefer assumptions as opposed to facts. It was the case when you ignored the situation of decreasing population, tax base, poor federal policy, etc and the impat it has had on Detroit just as you are ignoring the fact that most inner ring suburbs are seeing a decline in population. Considering that there is a migration from Detroit to the inner rings it appears that the white population of many inner rings is decreasing at a fairly noticeable rate.

They must be escaping to something. How does that coorelate to your claims of seeking out something better? Is inner ring 'white culture' less appealing than otehr 'white culture'?

Retroit · May-15-09, 10:51 PM

If you were a white inner ring suburbanite and you were able to sell your home to a black Detroiter at a grossly inflated price during a housing boom, would you not do it? The fact that there were blacks wanting to leave Detroit as well as a means for them to do so [[read: easy mortgage) was the reason many whites sold out and used the ridiculous gains to buy an even larger home with an even larger mortgage. The whites didn't move out because they didn't like white culture, and I don't think that most moved out for fear of blacks.

You have yet to refute the fact that black Detroiters are sick of living in the society they've created. Detroit is being abandoned. Have you noticed?

**Detroit Stylin** · May-15-09, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Retroit

If you were a white inner ring suburbanite and you were able to sell your home to a black Detroiter at a grossly inflated price during a housing boom, would you not do it? The fact that there were blacks wanting to leave Detroit as well as a means for them to do so [[read: easy mortgage) was the reason many whites sold out and used the ridiculous gains to buy an even larger home with an even larger mortgage. The whites didn't move out because they didn't like white culture, and I don't think that most moved out for fear of blacks.

You have yet to refute the fact that black Detroiters are sick of living in the society they've created. Detroit is being abandoned. Have you noticed?

Wow I thought Karl was gone for good.....

DetroitDad · May-15-09, 11:43 PM

Retroit, I liked your explanation of culture.

jt1, I think Retroit's views are reflective of the views held by much of the region. It may not be a black and white issue, but most people around here don't seem to see the socioeconomic underpinning. Most people around here don't seem to realize how divers the rest of the country is, or that there are black areas very different than those in blighted areas of Detroit.

**Dave70** · May-16-09, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by Retroit

It is a matter of stopping to live in ways that are detrimental to your well-being and starting to live in ways that have proven over the course of history to promote a pleasant society in which to live.

That's it right there. I guess too many people [[in the bad areas of any city) don't know how to be a good citizen. Black, white, latino, whatever race, if they are not taught how to live harmoniously with society then chances are they become the trashy, ghetto, gangsta type that ruins the quality of living in their area.